How to lower my Bridge and nut slots

[Rob Gerety]

I just picked up my Gibson A from the luthier. He installed a new nut, leveled the frets, re-glued the transverse brace, and shimmed the bridge. The mandolin is in excellent condition - zero top sinkage, good modern frets, very solid mandolin. The new nut is spaced very well and looks real good. The problem is that I hate the way it is set up. The action feels high and it plays stiff. Sounds great - but its just too much work for me to play it. I'd like to lower the bridge and maybe lower the nut slots a tiny bit as well. The luthier will do the work for free, but he is 1.7 hours away and I'm weary of the trip and not having my mandolin with me. I really don't want to have to drive down there again and wait yet another few weeks.

Is it crazy for me to even consider lowering the action myself? It is a standard Gibson fixed bridge from the teens that has been shimmed on the bottom. How do I go about lowering it? Is it a matter of sanding off the bottom somehow and then fitting the bridge to the top? Should I just fit a new adjustable bridge? Is that going to be over my head?

What do you folks think? Should I take it back? I feel like I have the raw material now to get an excellent set up but it just didn't quite get finished. He was filing the nut slots when I arrived at his shop today. When I got home with it I realized he had not even set the intonation. The bridge had to be moved back about 1/8 inch. Ugh.

[fishtownmike]

Unless you have experience doing this you can mess it up if your not sure what your doing. You can take away material from the bridge and nut easy but you can't add it as easy if you over cut. Why didn't you test it out while there? I'm sure he could have made the adjustments right then and there.

[Rob Gerety]

Yea. I know. The shop has about 3 square inches of space not covered with guitars, mandolins, parts, projects etc. It was Christmas eve and I was in a yank to get home. No place to sit and play but I definitely should have taken more time. Its my fault, not his. Although it is hard to understand why he did not at least set the intonation.

So, I guess I'm going to have to go back down there. At this point I'm beginning to wish I just left it the way it was. I was hoping to use this mando at at gig Tuesday night but I can't even play it the way it is.

[jim simpson]

Rob,
One can buy string slotting files (I bought mine many years ago from StewMac). Often if the action is too high at the nut, the string tension will feel stiff. You can loosen one string at a time while filing just a little, then taking the string back up to pitch to see if it's been lowered enough. You do not want to have to correct this if you take too much. The bridge can also be re-slotted to lower action although I suspect the nut may be the culprit.
Jim

[F-2 Dave]

I would suggest finding a different set up guy. Or learn to do it yourself.

[Fretbear]

Its my fault, not his. Although it is hard to understand why he did not at least set the intonation. So, I guess I'm going to have to go back down there. At this point I'm beginning to wish I just left it the way it was. I was hoping to use this mando at at gig Tuesday night but I can't even play it the way it is.

No, it is his fault. Giving you back your instrument without it being properly and exactly intonated is unforgivable. I would cut your losses with him. As to whether you can do your own set-up and adjustments, no-one here can say, as it depends upon your skill set and experience. If you don't have any previous experience, then you probably don't want to start out on your vintage Gibson.
I would reccomend that when you do find someone qualified and who you can trust that you get one of Steve Smith's Cumberland Acoustic adjustable mandolin bridges installed on it. It will sound great and allow you to adjust the action at the saddle very easily if required. Keep the original bridge somewhere safe. Setting the nut at the action can be tricky and the difference between perfect and "too far, now it buzzes", is one file stroke; it is crucial that this be done properly, as it makes fretting and playing very smooth and enjoyable.

[Rob Gerety]

I think the problem is partially a few nut slots not being quite deep enough which is making it play stiff - I know that is a bit of the issue for sure. But mostly I think its the bridge. What is the typical lowish set up spec at the 12th fret - top of fret to bottom of string on the G and E strings? This is set at about 7/64 on the G strings - maybe 6.5/64. I imagine some folks might like it this high - but its not working for me at all.

This guy is supposedly the best around on mandos. I think he just got caught short of time. He was banging out the nut slots when I arrived. He is a good guy. He did an excellent job on the nut as far as shape and string spacing etc. The other work is fine. He just didn't take the time to really do anything but a seat of the pants 5 minute set up and as I left he reminded me that if it needs any adjustments he will do it free of charge. I just wish it wasn't so darn far away. I do not want to have to drive all the way down there and back twice and wait another week or more.

The intonation is easy for me to adjust - I have it set right now. But I really had to move the bridge quite a way back - much more than I expected and I think its probably because the action is so high that the stings are being pulled sharper than normal when you fret up the neck.

I have never cut nut slots. I have made some guitar saddles and adjusted guitar saddle height and neck relief. But, I think your right - I need to either go back to him or find someone else closer and I also think you are right that I should have a CA bridge installed. This fellow seems reluctant to install anything but his custom made bridges which look excellent but they are very expensive.

[Big Joe]

Many guitar guys think they can do mandolin work, but it is as different as night and day. Taking it back to him will not likely get you any better results than where you are now. Putting a new nut in is not rocket science, but if you don't know what you are doing it is a real pain to do and do right. First just see what you get when you lower the bridge. If you still have a problem it may be more than just a nut.

[Rob Gerety]

Joe, he is not a guitar guy. He is a mandolin guy. Very very experienced. He is a builder and restorer as well. His work is excellent - it is obvious when you see it. He just didn't take the time to really focus on the set up. Christmas rush I expect.

[Mike Snyder]

It simply will not do, to rush an artisan. I took my mando in to have the nut slots eased a bit. Binding on the A and E strings, doncha know. I should have realised it was not a good idea, by the harried manner of the luthier. Have it done while you wait, sez he. Just a little too deep. The buzz didn't develop for days.
Luthiery is amazingly complicated. Best done in unhurried calmness.

[Rob Gerety]

It simply will not do, to rush an artisan.

This is the key. The thing is, he called me the day before to let me know it was all set. But, he is human and I am sure the Christmas thing caught him by surprise.

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

Sorry to hear this Rob. As you know, he can get it right. Perhaps a planned day - a trip down for appointment in the morning, errands nearby, pick up and return home late afternoon. Not ideal, but it can work and save many miles. You can PM me and I usually have extra time in January to visit, etc.

You could play it a little bit on Tue. Don't need to do the whole gig with it. I have a Bourgeois that Dana set up, which is higher and stiffer than I like. I have resisted temptation to change it for a variety of reasons. Probably will have to someday. With the A-4, you need to get it right and feel good about it. We both know how hard it is to get a good set up locally here in the wilderness. I think your luthier would want to get it the way you want it.

Jonathan

[Kevin Briggs]

Rob,

I think you basically have two options:

1. Drive almost two hours to get the guy to "try" to fix it. I say "try" because the proof is in the pudding with his first attempt.
2. Send it to someone like Joe Vest or Steve Perry to do it right.

For me, I would choose the second option. Yes, you will pay for shipping and an hour of labor, but it will be right when you get it back.

I fumbled around with luthiers where I used to live until finally finding a few good ones.

One guy is a well known luthier who makes mandolins, violins, and guitars, and he also gave a stiff setup. He was arrogant, degrading, and somehow seemed offended that he was being asked to spend an hour working on a $300 mandolin. I never went back to him.

Another guy was a great person who had made guitars before, but I could have done a better job myself. I let Geoff Stelling look at the guy's setup work when I saw Stelling at Grey Fox, and Stelling pointed out that the truss rod was rattling... not good. Stelling - a generally goofy guy - was a class act and re-set it all for me for free.

Anoter local fella was a former professional musician turned repairman who specialized in electric guitars. He was a rockabilly player in the 50s Rock 'n' Roll circuit, and loved jazz. He almost singlehandedly ruined my Breedlove Spirit. It never was right again after he messed with it.

The three guys who ended up being reliable were simply more talented. They dodn't have good pedigrees or any interesting backgrounds, but they just were more artful about setups. There names are:

1. Bob Kane - Hershey, PA
2. Chris Warner - York, PA
3. Jeff Hosteter - New Freedom, PA

Chris Warner actually has a pretty hefty pedigree, having played banjo professionally, and having built Loar replica mandolins. Bob and Jeff are simply artists.

FWIW

[fredfrank]

But, he is human and I am sure the Christmas thing caught him by surprise.


Yeah, imagine the nerve of whoever it was that moved Christmas to the 25th this year!

[Bill Snyder]

Sound to me like he was rushed and did not get it finished. If he has the repair/setup chops you say I would take it back to him and let him finish the job.
He should not have called and told you it was ready to go before it was though.

[Rob Gerety]

I kind of wonder if he realized a the last minute that he needed to make a nut.

Tell me - and I know this is often done by feel not measurment - what is the general range of 12th fret string height for lowish action.

[Jill McAuley]

No offense meant at all Rob, but I think you are cutting this guy way too much slack. I have to agree with Bill S. - the luthier shouldn't have called and said it was ready when it was not.

I'm sure you just want to get to playing that beauty again, so here's hoping for a swift resolution to this for you.

Cheers, and Happy Holidays!
Jill

[Rob Gerety]

I called him this morning and he made time for me this afternoon. I drove down and dropped it off with him at 2PM. By 3PM he was done. He removed the bridge shim, touched up a few nut slots, touched up the bridge slots - good to go. I'm in Gibby A4 heaven. He made a gorgeous nut and spaced the stings really well. It plays like butter now. Some time down the road I'm going to fit an adjustable bridge. I need to be able to adjust the sting height myself.

Seeing all your avatars makes me think I should get my Golden Retriever "Willie" up in lights.