Red Diamond #205 [Archive] - Mandolin Cafe Forum

Yellowmandolin

Dec-22-2009, 8:32am

Just wanted to post a few pictures of my new Red Diamond. I've had it for about a week now and finally got some time to stop playing and took some pictures! It is a Vintage F voiced after John Reischman's '24 Loar and is about everything I could ever want in a mandolin. It has a really sweet tone, very smooth across the strings and quite clean and clear up the neck. It has a powerful chop with a strong G string that makes playing some of those old Monroe instrumentals a pleasure. Thank you, Don!

Yellowmandolin

Dec-22-2009, 8:34am

And when I saw that yellow Calton, I knew it was for me!

Yellowmandolin

Dec-22-2009, 8:40am

I put up a short little video of it on YouTube... Not great quality, but using the built in iSight camera on my Mac is about as far as my cinematography goes!

3-GchSpdDas

carleshicks

Dec-22-2009, 8:43am

very nice

Barry Platnick

Dec-22-2009, 8:45am

Wow!!
Gorgeous mandolin. And if it sounds that good on the mac recording it must sound great in person.

Enjoy.

Earl Gamage

Dec-22-2009, 8:59am

Sweet

Chuck Naill

Dec-22-2009, 9:12am

Nice tone you are getting there on the new Red Diamond. Thanks for posting, I know you are proud. :mandosmiley:

Rick Schmidlin

Dec-22-2009, 9:29am

Congrats, Don's the best :)

Yellowmandolin

Dec-22-2009, 10:37am

Nice tone you are getting there on the new Red Diamond. Thanks for posting, I know you are proud. :mandosmiley:

Thanks, Chuck, I am pretty proud! It's just a pleasing instrument to play.

JeffD

Dec-22-2009, 10:41am

Very nice

rekx

Dec-22-2009, 11:49am

Pow!!

kirksdad

Dec-22-2009, 12:49pm

Me likey very much......

Congrats

Glassweb

Dec-22-2009, 1:25pm

for the life of me i can't see making a gorgeous new mandolin that is butchered at the end of the fingerboard and left with "The Dreaded Black Tongue". It looks horrible and ruins the design and appearance of one of the most perfectly designed instruments... perhaps THE most beautifully designed instrument of all time. why do both builders and buyers continue down this ridiculous road?
given that no-one wants the extension anymore, why not adopt Collings perfect fingerboard alternative as the new standard... more and more builders are headed that way so far as i can tell... thank God! ok, my rant is over... for now anyway!

Chris Biorkman

Dec-22-2009, 1:34pm

Glassweb

Dec-22-2009, 2:16pm

thanks for "tempering my steel" Chris! i get your point as well... ;)

woodysny

Dec-22-2009, 2:23pm

Great mando. Welcome to the club! And, it will even get better with time - whoa Nellie.:mandosmiley:

Yellowmandolin

Dec-22-2009, 2:27pm

Woody, I remember yours, heck of a good "Crusher!"

James S

Dec-22-2009, 2:42pm

Beautiful mandolin - and already with a killer sound. I could only imagine how it will project in a year or so!. While I respect Glassweb's thoughts on the "Florida," is it me or is this extension a little crooked? Is that what it's like on Reischman's Loar? From the photos, it seems that there is a slight gap between the end of it and the pickguard (sloping towards the scroll). Is it an optical illusion? Either way, best of luck with the new axe!

Chris Biorkman

Dec-22-2009, 2:42pm

thanks for "tempering my steel" Chris! i get your point as well... ;)

We should start a group on here for people against black tongues. They must be stopped.

Yellowmandolin

Dec-22-2009, 2:50pm

James, the board is straight, but the pickguard was not pushed in all the way...

Glassweb

Dec-22-2009, 2:57pm

We should start a group on here for people against black tongues. They must be stopped.

sign me up brother... i'm there! ;)

Glassweb

Dec-22-2009, 3:00pm

For those of you who have never been introduced...

The Dreaded "BLACK TONGUE"!

Yellowmandolin

Dec-22-2009, 3:10pm

Glassweb, sure am glad I have bigger things to worry about...

tree

Dec-22-2009, 3:10pm

Very nice mandolin - ignore the tongue haters.

buckles

Dec-22-2009, 3:14pm

Glassweb, sure am glad I have bigger things to worry about...

Ditto. Really! Congrats on your new instrument...!! :)

Chris Biorkman

Dec-22-2009, 3:28pm

It is a very nice looking mandolin. Sounds pretty great too. Do you work for Don?

Yellowmandolin

Dec-22-2009, 3:34pm

Yeah, I do work for Don, I've been his apprentice for the last year and half or so. He's a pretty great guy, I've been really lucky for the opportunity to learn in his shop.

I don't mean to sound defensive about the extender, in the grand scheme of things it just doesn't matter much to me. If it did, I'd put a new one on!

buckles

Dec-22-2009, 3:41pm

What are your jobs as Don's apprentice and how did those responsibilities develop from the time you started working for him?

Chris Biorkman

Dec-22-2009, 3:42pm

If I had a replica made, I'd want it as authentic as possible like you got it. Looks pretty close to a Loar. I really don't have a problem with the black tongue so much as extensions in general, and that's only because of pick click. I don't think they look bad. Congrats!

mandolirius

Dec-22-2009, 4:11pm

Yellowmandolin

Dec-22-2009, 4:14pm

Buckles, I participate in some degree in most aspects of the building process, with the main exception of the application of the finish. When I started, there was a fair bit of "watch and learn" but as I have demonstrated what I'm able to do up to his standard, I am able to do so much more. Of course, as an apprentice, I also get the privilege of cleaning up the shop on occasion! haha As far as I'm concerned, it has been the best time of my life.

Glassweb

Dec-22-2009, 4:18pm

Glassweb, sure am glad I have bigger things to worry about...

actually, i'm glad you do too!

Glassweb

Dec-22-2009, 4:26pm

I recently got to hear John Reischman's Red Diamond, A/B'd with his Loar. The RD stood up very well and I thought it was actually a bit louder.

Glassweb, don't you own a Loar? Did you cut the extension off?

yes, i do own a Loar... and i actually cut the damn thing up the other day for firewood... saved the extension though!

listen, you can all hate me for my opinion about the dreaded "Black Tongue", but until builders stop butchering the beautiful and perfect design of the Loar F5 i will, on occasion, have to rant on a bit. my apologies to any and all i may have offended...

Don Grieser

Dec-22-2009, 4:58pm

Congratulations! That's one fine mandolin you've got there. Don's a great guy and a mighty fine builder. You're a lucky guy to get to work with him. ~o)

John Gardinsky

Dec-22-2009, 6:38pm

atetone

Dec-22-2009, 7:51pm

So, you get a beautiful Red Diamond AND you get to apprentice in the shop that builds them!
You are a very fortunate person Jacob.
Enjoy the heck out of that mandolin.

Walt

Dec-22-2009, 9:13pm

Beautiful mandolin! I suppose you are an aspiring luthier since you are working with Mr. MacRostie.
Don't let the "black tounge" crowd get you down. Scooping the extension is a must for many modern mandolin players who prefer anchoring their right hand closer to the neck to get a fatter sound. I guess a fretted fingerboard isn't a big deal if you pick back by the bridge and prefer a more tinny sound, but for a lot of mando players, that doesn't give them the sound they are looking for.
And the Collings fingerboard is far from "perfect." My Arches mandolin has a short extension like the Collings, and I still had to scoop out the last 4 or 5 frets to avoid pick click. Steffey's Daley is probably the only fingerboard that completely eliminates the possibility of pick click, and it only has 17 frets.
In short, your mandolin looks fantastic. I'm sure Don would build these guys a mando with a fretted extension if they wanted it.

mtucker

Dec-22-2009, 9:30pm

you ought to be very proud, that axe kills. never sell it, even if you start building your own! glassweb was mostly funnin with you, you're on your way my friend! My bud Sam, supreme god of Peg case making, just loves Don to death. great you have Don as your mentor! you are very fortunate and you can play also! best to you. feliz navidad!

Scott Crabtree

Dec-22-2009, 9:59pm

At the very least there should be faux frets on the "tongue", like Jamie Weins and others do. I agree with Glassweb, why not go the distance and eliminate the peninsula all together? Yellowmandolin, your diamond is beautiful~whip into shape! ;-)

SternART

Dec-22-2009, 10:19pm

I like those fake frets in a scooped extension too!

David Rambo

Dec-22-2009, 10:30pm

Great mandolin! Like you say, play, play, play, and play some more.

Tracy Ballinger

Dec-22-2009, 10:38pm

Awesome Jacob! Congrats!

Fretbear

Dec-22-2009, 11:17pm

Beautiful mando, congratulations......I'm not going to get into "the devil's peninsula" thing, but 17 (usable) frets makes a lot of sense as it is the matching octave for the string below it, like the fifth fret is.

goose 2

Dec-23-2009, 1:21am

Congrats to you. What a beauty and fine sounding at that! I once owned a RD A-5 crusher model that I sold when I bought a killer vintage Martin. It was not my main mandolin and it really deserved more playing time than I was giving it. It was surely once of the nicest mandolins I have ever played or owned and I think Don is at the very top of the top builders today. I will again own one of his. You're a lucky guy!

Yellowmandolin

Dec-23-2009, 9:01am

Thanks for the kind words folks, it sure is fun, heck of a good holiday this year! I just put up a new video on YouTube that gives a little better demonstration of what it sounds like up the neck a bit.

1R41x5vaZrc

Jason Kindall

Dec-23-2009, 10:20am

Hi Jacob - congrats on that sweeeeet mando and your very very nice picking. You took a swing at Brilliancy and really connected. I'm doubly jealous!

:mandosmiley:

Tom C

Dec-23-2009, 10:26am

Randy Smith

Dec-23-2009, 10:49am

For those of you who have never been introduced...

The Dreaded "BLACK TONGUE"!

GWeb:
I'm not a big fan of the Black Tongue on F-5's and F-5 copies either. but I do like the tongue itself. If the BT doesn't become its own tradition, maybe sometime players will want frets installed to go back to the original style. I'll take your word for it that the BT's popularity has passed; problem for me is that I'm not a fan of the Collings tongue either. To make things worse for myself, another thing I *do* like that seems to have had its day is the pickguard. Sign me up for a group for keeping pickguards on mandolins. But I don't expect many members.

YMandolin:
Congrats on the Diamond. It sounds great.

chip

Dec-23-2009, 10:52am

aaaarrrrggggggghhhh....I've never heard the term "dreaded black tongue" and now I can't get it out of my head.....aaaarrrrggggghhh...:crying:
Never even thought about it till now....aaaarrrrrrrggggggghhhh...glad I didn't have that done to my Gil,Gibbies...

Chris Biorkman

Dec-23-2009, 10:58am

I believe builders do it because they(myself included) find a shortened fretboard with a pickguard looks worse.

I think a shortened fretboard looks funny with a full-size pickguard. The abbreviated ones look better.

lenf12

Dec-23-2009, 12:09pm

My '56 F-12 has the standard (for F-12's) squared off 24 fret fingerboard also with a full sized F-5 finger rest (pickguard). I like the look very much and don't have to deal with pick click. I also like the look of the Collings fingerboard. It may be a bit more prone to pick click but that's what practice is for.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

Hayes Griffin

Dec-23-2009, 1:20pm

Jacob-I am very happy for you and your new mandolin. I know you have worked hard and have been looking forward to it for a long time.

I am embarrassed for some of the earlier replies in this thread. Although they are only opinions, the delivery was tasteless. John

Well said John. What happened to the days where if you didn't have anything polite to say, you kept your mouth shut? I guess courtesy and tact don't apply here in Internet Land, a place where comments that I highly doubt would be uttered in the physical presence of the discussed party can be made. I guess that is the world in which we live.

Anyway, in line with the original topic of the post, your mandolin sounds and looks great Jacob. Although people somehow seem disgusted with a guy expressing joy over an instrument that isn't their idea of the holy grail, I am happy that you've got an instrument that YOU like. Keep pickin' bro

barry k

Dec-23-2009, 1:40pm

Nice mando, congrats..............I will put that in my file of " cutesy little terms
that I will never use personally" Black Tongue goes perfectly with "fit and finish", "that Virzi thingy", and "De-damping "......blah :grin:

Glassweb

Dec-23-2009, 2:08pm

my god, so many fragile flowers! sorry boys, but "The Dreaded Black Tongue"
is here to stay. now, back to the topic of tastefully designed and built mandolins... some images to consider...

Mike Bunting

Dec-23-2009, 2:30pm

I don't see the issue here, I don't think that Glassweb was particularly rude, I assume that Jacob posted for comments and got some. Personally, I think that the Red Diamond is a real humdinger, in fact, I had one on order until the Canadian dollar nose dived and added about 4 grand on to the price. Ouch!
The fretboard extension is not an issue as far as I am concerned, my Collings doesn't have one and my Stanley does and I've had no problems playing it.

Hayes Griffin

Dec-23-2009, 3:19pm

my god, so many fragile flowers! sorry boys, but "The Dreaded Black Tongue"
is here to stay. now, back to the topic of tastefully designed and built mandolins... some images to consider...

Thank you Glassweb for taking the time to prove my previous point about things you would never say to somebody's face. Best of luck trolling the Café's boards, and thanks for the stunning pictures.

Chris Biorkman

Dec-23-2009, 3:34pm

Chill out. He's just playing around.

Thank you Glassweb for taking the time to prove my previous point about things you would never say to somebody's face. Best of luck trolling the Café's boards, and thanks for the stunning pictures.

MojoMando

Dec-23-2009, 3:39pm

now, back to the topic of tastefully designed and built mandolins...

Some builders like Steve Gilchrist totally understand how to deal with the fingerboard extension by making it slightly shorter and inlaying faux silver frets. Steve's 19 real-fret-design not only looks great, but is also very player friendly.

But, not all builders are willing to make that compromise because they are so concerned about copying the touchstone Loar faithfully. I'm sure that the original Loar designed extension works for some players, but it does not for many bluegrassers, myself included. Unfortunately, if a player decides that they prefer a scoop to eliminate pick click, it is simply too late to inlay faux frets because of the pre-existing binding. This is why you see so many black tongues, not because it was designed that way, but because it was done after the fact.

Personally, I would scoop any mandolin that I chose to keep for myself with absolutely no regrets.

MojoMando

p.s.- If anyone knows how to inlay flush faux frets to an already bound board, I would love the hear about it.

Dfyngravity

Dec-23-2009, 3:59pm

That is one fine RD. Don is a great guy and builds some of the finest mandolins out there. He built me one back around 03'-04' and was a fantastic mandolin. I still wish I had it, but I still have time to get another.

joshua collum

Dec-23-2009, 5:35pm

Jacob, nice mandolin! And nice picking! It's really awesome that you get to work with Don and learn how to build, what a great opportunity. I have Don's DVD series but I haven't built anything yet. Enjoy your new mando and I will be looking out for your work in the future. Take care.

When did this topic go from "Red Diomond #205" to " Tasefully designed and built mandolins" ???

mtucker

Dec-23-2009, 5:49pm

p.s.- If anyone knows how to inlay flush faux frets to an already bound board, I would love the hear about it.

Unbound wouldn't be any great shakes, dunno about bound. I've had flush fretlines on my electric (fretless) basses.

Post in the builders section and Rick (Turner) or someone there may be able to make suggestions.

fredfrank

Dec-23-2009, 6:22pm

Ron Cole has chosen to inlay a pearl rose on his scalloped extensions. A rather clever use of the dreaded black tongue.

I have the scalloped extension on both of my Red Diamond mandolins. They don't really bother me, but I guess I can see Glassweb's point. I just can't understand the reason this comes up every time somebody posts a picture with a scooped extension.

Not to belabor the point, but if I was going to order a mandolin built with the traditional extension, I'd have it fretted all the way up. Not that I'd ever use those frets, but I think it does look more complete. I really don't mind pick click, I hit the dang pickguard all the time anyway.

Oh, and Jacob -- nice mando and good pickin'.

G. Fisher

Dec-23-2009, 8:29pm

Thank you Glassweb for taking the time to prove my previous point about things you would never say to somebody's face. Best of luck trolling the Café's boards, and thanks for the stunning pictures.

:confused::confused::confused:

Scott Crabtree

Dec-23-2009, 9:18pm

Being opinionated is not trolling, trolling requires a 3/0 hook and a couple of flashers, down~rigger is optional. ;-0

Peter LaMorte

Dec-23-2009, 10:52pm

I just had a custom mandolin made for me and the builder usually shortens the fret board. I insisted that I have a scoop past the 23rd...... Long live the Black Tongue or peninsula or what ever you want to call it. Nobody else ponied up any money to help me pay for mine new mandolin so I guess the only opinion that counts would be........................................... Mine:)):)):)).

and to stay on topic, that Red Diamond looks great , congratulations!!!!
Peter

Mark Walker

Dec-24-2009, 8:44am

Jacob - congrats! Great looking and sounding mandolin! Treasure it like a child! :)

Merry Christmas to you and yours!

sgarrity

Dec-24-2009, 1:32pm

Nice looking mandolin Jacob, scalloped extension and all!! Don certainly makes a mighty fine instrument. I've owned three of them and wish I had the F5 back! MAS is an interesting journey.....

Wishing you many happy tunes!

Glassweb

Dec-29-2009, 5:19pm

here's (to my eyes) a very tasteful approach to an abbreviated fingerboard extension... one of Will Kimble's latest...

joshua collum

Dec-29-2009, 6:22pm

Yeah,yeah,yeah......

Glassweb

Dec-29-2009, 7:39pm

perhaps the example above would not be everybody's "ideal" way of solving pick-click, but i do feel this points towards the future of standardizing modern mandolin design. plenty of tasteful variations have already been introduced by many other talented builders...

barry k

Dec-29-2009, 8:37pm

I guess thats why they make crayons in a zillion different colors, not everyone likes red. But my last name doesnt have to be Rembrandt to know I like blue.

Steve Sorensen

Dec-29-2009, 8:54pm

I wish I could play at a level worthy of a Red Diamond. I wish I could build at a level worth of Red Diamond praise. Hope I can keep working at both until that time.

Beautiful instrument, Jacob.

Steve

mandomania7923

Dec-29-2009, 8:54pm

jacob, as you know, you have a very beautiful, well made, great sounding mandolin. it is made by a great american luthier that most of us respect on this form. i met don at ibma a couple years ago and he was a joy to work with. if you like the way your mandolin looks(i sure do) that is all that matters. as for the black tongue, maybe they can make their own thread on it, as this is for respect of this mandolin. which is a beauty, great playing btw. best of luck and hope you enjoy this red diamond for many many years to come.

hank

Dec-29-2009, 9:59pm

Beautiful mandolin Jacob. Very nice tone, congratulations. What a great Christmas and wonderful way into 2010.

fredfrank

Dec-29-2009, 11:28pm

I wish I could play at a level worthy of a Red Diamond.

Steve

If I had to play at a specific level before I was able to purchase a Red Diamond, I'd never get one . . . let alone the two I do own.

I truly believe that if a person has the means and wants a great instrument, you should get it. I don't care if you just started. You learn faster, and enjoy practicing more because you have an instrument you love to play.

Jacob, it took me many, many years to find the Red Diamond mandolins, you are a very lucky guy. This alone will save you a bunch of time. You can now concentrate on learning music - and learning to make mandolins!

Scotti Adams

Dec-30-2009, 7:34am

here's (to my eyes) a very tasteful approach to an abbreviated fingerboard extension... one of Will Kimble's latest...

<<<<< Look at my avatar Reminds me of my Clark. Black Tongue or not..the RD looks and sounds the part.

jasona

Dec-30-2009, 10:14pm

Wow that thing sounds nice!

pjlama

Dec-31-2009, 12:52am

Wow, I can't believe somebody with two lifetime posts would accuse a regular contributor/valuable member of trolling.

The mandolin is awesome Yellow, dreaded black tongue and all. I am envious, I can only imagine that the sound and looks are only trumped by the playability. Enjoy it in good health and happiness.

Since nobody asked here's my thoughts on the extension, it's dictated by the PG. Full pickguard; full extension! Abbreviated pickguard; abbreviated extension. No pickguard; anything goes. With that said to each his own whether it's how they chose their extension design or their opinion of other's choices.

Lastly here's the definition of "Forum" from Merriam-Webster;
Main Entry: fo·rum
Pronunciation: \ˈfȯr-əm\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural forums also fo·ra \-ə\
Etymology: Latin; akin to Latin foris outside, fores door — more at door
Date: 15th century
1 a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business b : a public meeting place for open discussion c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas
2 : a judicial body or assembly : court
3 a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities

That said relax...

Hayes Griffin

Feb-05-2010, 1:30am

Wow, I can't believe somebody with two lifetime posts would accuse a regular contributor/valuable member of trolling.

It may be a little late now for a response, but here goes...

Not that it has anything to do with anything, but to set the record straight, I've been a member of the Café for nearly 6 years now, with close to 1000 posts on my previous account. My old account was hacked last April and I had to create a new one. Not saying that any insinuations are being made, but I would hate to gain the reputation for being a leech due to misinformation.

Secondly, I know that what I had said in my previous posts was a bit harsh, and for that I apologize. Glassweb and I may not see eye to eye on what a good mandolin should look like, or what the purpose of the discussion board is, but I do take responsibility for egging the argument on and I hope that this can be the last post in this thread that deals with the subject.

All of the discussion in this thread that wasn't directly related to Jacob's new mandolin, in my opinion, has been delivered fairly distastefully, whether it be my bickering, quotes with annoyed emoticons, or attempts to familiarize me with the English dictionary (which I do appreciate. I wasn't aware there were so many definitions for the word "forum.":grin:) With that being said, and most importantly, I'd like to apologize to Jacob. He was only trying to share his excitement for his new instrument, and I had a hand in ruining that.

So, in closing, I am relaxed, I hope there are no hard feelings between anybody, and in the future I will try to be a more responsible contributor to our beloved Café. Keep pickin' everybody, and good luck with the new mando Jacob!

mandomania7923

Feb-05-2010, 2:20am

great post griffin!

Mandolin Mick

Feb-05-2010, 3:08am

Hayes_Griffin

I remember looking at Jacob's initial post about his new mandolin but wasn't aware of the bickering that followed.

It takes a man to admit he's wrong and glad to know that you've reflected on this.

I know that people have accused me of being a member of the "Bluegrass Police" when I was just trying to help somebody with a technique question that they had asked. The temptation is always there to get the final dig on somebody who has annoyed you or misunderstood you. It's better to just let it go.

Godspeed ...