id help on Weymann

[mculliton123]

Can anyone help me find out more about my Weymann mandolin, please?
It's a bowlback "tater-bug" with Serial No. 24049 on the head and the Number 15.( maybe model no.?) looking for info as to date made, location, etc
THX
Mike Culliton

[bigbike]

Do you have a photo or two that you can post? The Weymann tag on the back of the peghead could help, as these did change slightly over the years, so if we can see a photo of it, that will help narrow the years down. Weymann plant use to stand where "The Gallery" shopping mall is in downtown Phila. When they built that blasted mall, they leveled everything within a couple of block area. At least my Stewart instruments still have the original building (even if the facade has changed) that I still may take them back to to see if any resonate when they get near their birthplace!:whistling::)

[mculliton123]

Thx for the reply. sorry the camera won't focus any closer to the tag.
it says " Weymann Keystone State" in a larger block font then " manuf'd by Weymann & Sons" in a smaller script font. then U.S.A.
it's missing the tail-piece cover, which leads to another question: try to find a replacement cover or just replace the whole tail-piece?
it sounds great, lots of sustain. this is my first mandolin and i'm really lovin' it.
thx again
Mike Culliton

[MikeEdgerton]

It was sold by Weymann in Philadelphia, it might have been made by them or it may have been farmed out to another manufacturer (no matter what the decal says). Weymann was also a retailer of musical instruments. You're looking for a Waverly Cloud tailpiece cover. That same tailpiece was used by most manufacturers including Martin, Kay, Harmony and was used on some Gibson models as well. You can place an ad in the classifieds here on the cafe and see if someone has one or you can watch eBay for one. If you don't care about keeping it original you can replace it or you can just play it without the cover.

[mculliton123]

thx, Mike. i'll try to find a replacement. this once had a 'bad' repair job done on it so the collector 'value' isn't there. a local luthier did a great job getting it back into shape w/o any collatoral damage. don't mind playing w/o the cover but the string ends catch on my sleeve. lol
thx again
Mike C

[bigbike]

I would say that the tuners have been replaced at sometime. They certainly do not look original to me (or it could be the photo). Other than a few minor issues like the tuners and the tailpiece-how does it play? Does it have good tone and sustain? What guage and brand strings are on it?

[allenhopkins]

I would say that the tuners have been replaced at sometime. They certainly do not look original to me...

I had a Weymann Keystone State mandolute that had quite similar tuners -- the button and worm gear shaft cast in one piece. Doesn't mean these couldn't be replacements, though.

[mculliton123]

Sorry that the pix are so bad, the camera won't focus any closer . the buttons/shafts look to be 2 different pieces, buttons might be aluminum ??
not steel but a light metal.shafts look to be inserted in the buttons. the strings are 9/13/20/32 GHS. I never played a mandolin before wednesday, been a guitar guy for many years. but i inherited a 1925 Martin Tiple which perked my interest in all things fretted ( with at least 3 strings lol)..I got this mando at a local pawn shop. Like i said, it was the victim of a bad repair job at some stage, so the tuners might not be original. I had a local Luthier get it back in playing order. i am surprised by the sound of this instrument. very bright and the sustain goes on forever.!!! had to learn a few new chord shapes but this thing is a ball. guess i won't be playing my D-28 for a while.
thx for your help
Mike Culliton

[8ch(pl)]

There is a serial number list, but it starts at 35,000 for 1924. Yours would be, of course, much earlier.

[mculliton123]

I did not know that there was a list. thx for pointing this out.. is it available on-line?
thx for all of your help.
Mike C

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm not so sure the tuners aren't original. I've had the same tuners on early banjo mandolins. If they were changed it was a long time ago. The screws aren't phillips, they are slotted from what I can tell.

[mculliton123]

Yes the screws are indeed slotted, and the worm-gear shafts appear to be squared off and inserted into the buttons.
so, .... if the serial number list is correct, depending on the production volume per year, this could be as old as ~ 1920?? or teens ?
didn't realize that, cool.
Thx
Mike

[bratsche]

Hi guys,

I have a Weymann Mandolute Style 40 with the serial number 15931. Since you're talking years and lists, does anyone know when this one was made? Thanks!

bratsche

[8ch(pl)]

There is a banjo list on Joe Bethancourt's site, White Tree Productions. When you get there go to the Miscellany, then to Banjo serial numbers.

it is a really good list for Fairbanks Vega and Vega, as well as others. i believe the Vega banjo serial numbers are in line with their mandolins as well.

[bratsche]

Hi Glen,

If the Vega banjo numbers are in line with Vega mandolin numbers, then that puts my Vega bowlback at 1911. However, if that is true of Weymann as well (and I don't know if it is), then the list on that site for Weymann banjos doesn't go nearly far back enough to help identify the date of my Weymann mandolute.

bratsche

[8ch(pl)]

No that's true. I believe the list is made up from surviving sales receipts and maybe some historical information from the manufacturer. I can't swear to this. My Vega mandolin banjo's serial number falls between the last known number for 1918 and the first known number for 1919, on this list.

There were a number of Weymann Tenor bnajos in Nova Scotia, I have seen several and heard of others and would guess they may have been as popular here as were Vega instruments. I have seen a lot more Vega mandolin banjos than I have Weymanns however, but perhaps Vega built more of them at the time.

it seems to me that I have seen a Weymann Serial Number at about 17,000. I remembered at the time how far off from the list they were.

[jimmybluefin]

Just to chime in, I've got a Weymann Model 12, serial 18703. Anyone know approx. age & or value? needs a little repair, but not bad at all. Thanks.

[Jim Garber]

I would say that the tuners have been replaced at sometime.

For some reason, Weymann used those metal button tuners on many of their bowlbacks -- and they were one of the few mandolins that had them. Most of the examples I have pics of, tho, were the inlaid kind, like the one attached.

[brunello97]

Do you have a photo or two that you can post? The Weymann tag on the back of the peghead could help, as these did change slightly over the years, so if we can see a photo of it, that will help narrow the years down. Weymann plant use to stand where "The Gallery" shopping mall is in downtown Phila. When they built that blasted mall, they leveled everything within a couple of block area. At least my Stewart instruments still have the original building (even if the facade has changed) that I still may take them back to to see if any resonate when they get near their birthplace!:whistling::)

Found this Weymann ad recently which has an address for 'factory' in what I presume is Philadelphia. Google maps shows it somewhere between the mint and the river. Looks like a couple of later smaller infill buildings on the site at that address. Bigbike, maybe the Gallery perhaps took over the 9th St. site mentioned on this ad? Any more first-hand information on the Weymann sites in Philadelphia? Sounds like we are both interested in the history of these old mandolin production sites.....

I admit to being a bit lazy on my general 'Weymann' search here so I might have missed more posts of more comprehensive Weymann catalog information.

Mick

[Mattmando]

Hello,
New guy on the board here- I'm getting my grandfather's
Weymann 15 back into playing condition, so I was searching
around old posts and found this thread. McCulliton, I have
Weymann 15, number 24079, thirty past yours! Something of
a coincidence...
I'm new to playing mandolins, and have everything to learn.
I'm a ukulele player, also play bass guitar, and played cello years ago.

Cheers,
-Matt

[mathura]

If anyone is still interested I've managed to compile a Weymann Serial number list from the 14,000's listed below. This was compiled by 2 mandolutes coming to light, one with a purchase date and the other was dated from the patent pending tag. As has been pointed out the same sequence was used by Weymann for all their instruments, however for some reason some do not contain serial or model numbers.
I believe this list below is accurate to within a year, the serial number listed is at the start of the year. I have not found any information as to dating serial number prior to this list, if anyone can help please leave a post.
14000 1911
16000 1912
18000 1913
20000 1914
22000 1915
23500 1916
25000 1917
26300 1918
27800 1919
29200 1920
30600 1921
32100 1922
33500 1923
From existing website
35000 1924
37000 1925
39000 1926
41000 1927
43000 1928
45000 1929
45500 1930
46000 1931
46800 1932
47500 1933
48200 1934

[Jim Garber]

mathura: Perhaps you can clarify what your list is. I understand taking a number from an instrument with a sales receipt (is that what you mean by purchase date). But what do you mean by "patent pending tag"? I assume this is the "existing website (http://www.acousticmusic.org/Identifying-Vintage-Guitars-Banjos-and-Mandolins-sp-82.html#Weymann_banjos)"?

Thanks for the addendum to the list.

[mathura]

mathura: Perhaps you can clarify what your list is. I understand taking a number from an instrument with a sales receipt (is that what you mean by purchase date). But what do you mean by "patent pending tag"? I assume this is the "existing website (http://www.acousticmusic.org/Identifying-Vintage-Guitars-Banjos-and-Mandolins-sp-82.html#Weymann_banjos)"?

Thanks for the addendum to the list.

Hi Jim, Yes the first was from an instrument with a sales receipt. The other was a mandolute with a 'patent pending' label, and the patent was approved in March 1912. Production started 1910 so the instrument was most likely made 1910-early 1912.

Another Weymann instrument has turned up with a serial number of 34034 with a sales receipt of 1924, so this will change the existing list a little.

[8ch(pl)]

That instrument may have been in the shop for a period of time before it was sold, or could have been delayed in the factory before it was shipped. There is no way to tell the lag time between a date of manufacture and a sales date.

[brunello97]

Old Weymann catalog up for sale on the ebay:

Weymann Catalog (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130836951585&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123)

Mick

[mathura]

That instrument may have been in the shop for a period of time before it was sold, or could have been delayed in the factory before it was shipped. There is no way to tell the lag time between a date of manufacture and a sales date.

That's true, but it means the serial number is before that sale date, and more than likely not more than 12 months. It's not an exact science but each bit of information makes the dating more accurate.

[mathura]

Old Weymann catalog up for sale on the ebay:

Weymann Catalog (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130836951585&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123)

Mick

I have a digital copy of that catalog from another source and it has a date of 1924 written on it by the original owner.

[pcordle]

My Weymann mandolute s/n is 11768. Any idea of when it was made? Would love any guidance.

[tonydxn]

My Weymann mandolute s/n is 11768. Any idea of when it was made? Would love any guidance.

Working back from the list in mathura's post Nov 13 2012, 1909 would look like a fair bet for your instrument.

[mathura]

The Weymann Serial Number Dating Table has been recently updated with explanations of the decisions made, and can be found at:

http://www.leavingthisworld.com/weymann-serial-numbers-and-dating/#111

Regards mathura