Picking Question

[Rockville847]

Being new to playing the mandolin I have been religiously practicing the up down picking motion. I have a question about pick direction when changing strings. Lets say your playing a D major scale starting on the open D with a down stroke, E Up, F#down, G up. If you use the open A you are set up for a down stroke, up stroke on the B etc. But if you pick the A on the D string you are set up for an up stroke on the B to keep the up down motion in tact. My question is, if you play the A on the D string do you ever just push your pick through to the A string and play the B with a down stroke and start the up down motion over? Any opines will be appreciated. Thanks.
Sorry, I think this should be in the tips section.

[JeffD]

I tend not to break the UDUD in cases like that. I usually do not push through. I kind of make my previous down stroke have more follow through, passing beyond the physically lower string (A string in your example) and and then hit it on the up stroke.

But I sometimes violate that. In fact I probably sometimes violate every rule in some individual circumstance. My rule is to do what the tune seems to need. I guess - follow the rule unless there is a darn good reason not to.

[Mike Bunting]

I play DU all the time, no reason to do otherwise.
To quote Bryan Kimsey,
"Pick direction is extremely important and, most of the time, a beginner's problems can be traced to incorrect or unsure pick direction. Experienced guitarists can control pick direction and use unconventional techniques, but beginners are highly urged to stick with the tried and true "down-up" alternating pick direction. With this method, all downbeats are played with downstrokes and all upbeats are played with upstrokes. If strings are crossed (cross picking), pick direction continues as stated and you may very well have to jump over a string in order to pick it with an upstroke. It might seem more efficient to use a downstroke when crossing strings, and indeed some players do this, but it is the exception rather than the rule. Alternating down and up strokes give the music a natural pulse and beat. Using consecutive down or up strokes will produce a syncopated, off-beat feel which may be desired or not. In any case, consecutive down or up strokes is a technique for experienced players who can use it to change the flow of the music."

[fishtownmike]

I do break on occasions. Sometimes two down strokes or two upstrokes work better in certain situations. I been using alternative picking far longer then I been playing mandolin. I am a guitarist originally. I find though that if i actually try to think about doing this and try to slow it down to show it to someone i mess it up big time. I rarely ever use just solid down strokes for anything except certain chord rhythms ....Mike

[Jim]

By all means if the timing or melody requires it but as stated above you need to be good at the down/up form. I really don't think about it and I think when you get to that point you will just feel when it is necessary to change that pattern to fit the tune.

[Rob Gerety]

I have been taught to use strict alternate picking by default with a very very rare exception. Keep in mind though that the alternate picking sets up a steady up down movement of the picking hand so that if there is no note to be played when I am moving in a particular direction I pick at air. The hand keeps moving even if no note is played on a particular beat and even if I am playing a not with a hammer on or a pull off instead of a pick stroke. Then there are jigs - I play them with a steady DUD DUD pattern. Same rules apply.

These are good habits to develop - I wish I understood this years ago - would have saved a lot of time.

[John Kasley]

Look for opportunities to pick a passage or phrase on the same string to avoid breaking the alternating picking pattern, while keeping in mind the general rule of downstroke on down beats and upstroke on off beats. Sometimes stretching the pinky will get you there. Other times you may need to shift position.

[Ken_P]

I tend to use strict DUDU in 99% of my playing. The only exception is when I'm doing a cross picking pattern starting on an upstroke and then going to a lower string. Then I find it more economical to do UU, as I can still maintain the pulse. For instance, if I'm playing something on the E string, then A, then D in a repeating pattern, my preferred picking for that is UUD. Pretty much everything else is strict DUDU, including cross picking that is more of a forward roll (as banjo players would call it).

[EdHanrahan]

Mike Marshall's 2 DVD set on Homespun Tapes has some great co-ordination & "mechanics" exercises that I've found to be really worthwhile, even if you plan to break the rules often as necessary! Both for up & down the neck or, per this discussion, across strings.

You don't have to digest them all at once; you can work them in sort of "at leisure" between your other practice & learning. But eventually, you (meaning me!) find that some things just happen smoothly where they hadn't previously, keeping the DUDU flow.

As Rob said, "these are go habits to develop", even if you don't think you need them.

[Coffeecup]

My tutor suggests practicing the picking rhythm while watching TV, muting strings with the left hand. The idea is to make it a subconcious action.

[Rockville847]

The only exception is when I'm doing a cross picking pattern starting on an upstroke and then going to a lower string. Then I find it more economical to do UU, as I can still maintain the pulse. For instance, if I'm playing something on the E string, then A, then D in a repeating pattern, my preferred picking for that is UUD. Pretty much everything else is strict DUDU, including cross picking that is more of a forward roll (as banjo players would call it).[/QUOTE]

I think you are talking about doing exactly the opposite of what I find myself doing with the DDU on the string change. I work every day on keeping to the DUDU picking. It is getting easier. I appreciate all of the posts, it speeds up the learning curve quite a bit. I guess it's like most everything else, you obey the rules until you get proficient enough to break the rules. Thanks everybody.