Learning from Clarinet Method?

[cashreg]

Hi!

I've only been playing the mandolin for a few months, and my instructor is teaching me from the H. Lazarus Method for Clarinet books. Besides, the low E and F notes that I can't play on the mandolin, is there any other issues about learning from a different instrument that could hamper my progress?

I know that I can learn a lot from the violin or maybe some other stringed instruments; however, learning music for an instrument that comes from an entirely different family concerns me a bit. Is some music written differently for other instruments to accommodate techniques that may not be performed on another instrument, such as tonguing and slurring? Would I, for example, see a mandolin composition of a piece written differently from a clarinet composition of the same piece?

I've been a lurker for quite some time, and I should have expressed my appreciation for all of the great information before I actually had a burning question in mind. So, thanks to all of the wonderful folks out there that contribute to the share of information and support!

[JeffD]

When I picked up the mandolin I could already read music, having played clarinet and bassoon. I learned to play the mandolin by playing from my beginner and intermediate clarinet books. You can absolutely do it, to get you started at least.

[allenhopkins]

Cashreg, I'm a bit confused. What is your teacher assigning from the Clarinet Method book? Is it repertoire, exercises, scales, what?

If it's purely repertoire, you can probably benefit from it, to the extent that it improves your playing. However, it won't necessarily help you develop your own personal repertoire. Most mandolin players want to learn things like fiddle tunes, bluegrass, jazz, blues, Celtic or classical material. Doing a Google search, I found the Lazarus Method book contains the following repertoire:
Intermezzo - Composed by: N. Rimsky-Korsakoff - From: Opera "Tzar's Bride"
Fantasie - Composed by: Fritz Kroepsch - From: Opera "Der Freischutz"
Air Varie - Composed by: P. Rode
Cujus Animam - Composed by: D. Liverani - From: "Stabat Mater"
Morceau De Salon - Op. 229 - Composed by: I. W. Kalliwoda
Concert Fantasia - Composed by: Ernesto Cavallini - From: Opera "La Sonnambula"

Some quite advanced music, and I have to ask, is this the type of repertoire you want to keep for yourself? No doubt you will learn how to approach difficult instrumental passages, and acquire significant technical skills, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying this material is outside the "mandolin mainstream." If that's where you want to go, fine, but -- well, not the music that's generally heard at a mandolin-friendly jam.

Sounds to me like you have a classically-trained musician teaching you, who is looking for advanced "notey" music to give you technical expertise. Clearly, the Lazarus book will be no help in terms of mandolin technique building, other than assimilating the music it contains. Clarinet exercises and fingering are irrelevant to your instrument. Mandolins provide "held" notes -- half notes and up -- through the use of tremolo. Woodwind techniques such as trills are not often featured by mandolinists. Concerns like proper embouchure are also beside the point.

Once a mandolinist masters a certain level of technique, he/she can draw repertoire from any source. The question is, what repertoire do you want to acquire? Any of the Lazarus pieces, written in standard notation, could be played on the mandolin, with the exception of the notes below G you've mentioned. The technique development approach of clarinet is irrelevant to mandolin. IMHO, you and your teacher should discuss your desired direction in terms of repertoire and advanced technique development, and decide whether learning a number of classical pieces, specifically selected to benefit woodwind players, would be the best course for you to take.

[mandroid]

Of course Mandolin is capable of playing a 4 note chord , which by contrast a wind instrument has a hard time with more than 1 note at a time .

[OK, Roland Kirk played 2 reed instruments at the same time, so he had a harmony line going with one hand, and a melody with the other..]

[OldSausage]

I don't wish to cast aspersions upon your teacher, but I think that if they're being paid to teach you an instrument, they should at least work from material that is tailored to that instrument. If they were using a violin method it might make slightly more sense. While it might be possible, it's certainly not optimal, and is most likely wasting your time.

[Bruce Clausen]

A few thoughts: Instrumental technique is never really learned from a book (or a website), but by example from exposure to a good teacher and other good players. The book gives you material to work with on rudiments (scales and arpeggios) and on basic musical problems like rhythmic articulation, phrasing, stamina, and of course reading. The clarinet book won't cover some situations that are important for mandolin (like chord playing), but could still be very helpful for basic musicianship. I used clarinet books for these purposes as a guitarist, because the written range of the clarinet is identical to that of the guitar, and because there's much more excellent teaching material for clarinet than for guitar. For mandolin the equivalent instrument would be violin. A violin book would give you bowing exercises that are irrelevant for mandolin, but eventually you would get double stops and other neat stuff that the clarinet books won't offer.

Have you asked your teacher what his or her take on this question is? That seems like the place to start.

BC

[cashreg]

Have you asked your teacher what his or her take on this question is? That seems like the place to start.

BC

Yes, I have asked. In fact, he gave a similar response--that the clarinet method was used to train guitarists on the Tonight Show. I've had my supsicions, though, because I get the feeling that he thinks the guitar and mandolin are more similar than what they really are (or at least what I think they are). He's a guitarist, but claims that he can teach any instrument because of his training in theory and composition.

I want to learn how to play the mandolin as mandolinist, though, and not as a guitarist or general composer. I would have chosen a different instructor if there was another one in my area (I'm moving soon, though, and can find another). I like the idea that, with the amount of instructional material out there, one shouldn't have to settle for method books written for entirely different instruments. I would have few, if any, questions about being taught from a violin book, but clarinet seems like kind of a stretch. I also agree that the repertoire, as previously mentioned, is definitely a fact that I should take into consideration when choosing instructional material.

So, it seems that general musical exercises from the clarinet books won't hurt too much, but I should think twice if we start getting too in-depth with clarinet repertoire. Thanks for all of the generous responses!

[sbarnes]

if you're moving soon and changing teachers anyway....the point is moot....but i think that clarinet exercises could be a real good thing to do IN ADDITION to 'regular' mandolin methodology.....in conjunction w/your lessons but not exclusively your lessons.....
i've played lots of piano music on mandolin....played the arban's trombone method book on bass.....w/excellent results
but again
as only part of your lessons......

[Mandoist]

Yes, I have asked. In fact, he gave a similar response--that the clarinet method was used to train guitarists on the Tonight Show. I've had my supsicions, though...


You're suspicians are valid! If he's claiming Kevin Eubanks did this..your 'teacher' is misinformed...or worse. Here's what I learned directly from Eubanks:

"Clarinet book? Nah...does that work? No, I used some elementary music books my parents had around the house. Started on violin and trumpet, then switched to guitar. Not a popular move in my home at the time. I pretty much practiced anything that made me better. Scales; starting on different fingers. Chords; many different inversions. Chords that just sounded pretty, dissonant, chord clusters (maj/min intervals within the chords). Copied my favorite solos from Oscar Peterson to Terry Kath. Most of all I had the guitar in my hands at least 5 hours a day for years and years. I figured out just what I should practice. That is one of the most important things. Perhaps THE most important. What should you practice? Second most important, your practice sessions must connect to each other. While the ideas of your previous session is still warm in your mind AND in your hands, start your next session. It's like a body builder connecting each workout. If you wait too long, you will have lost that thread that makes it all unified, strong, cohesive. It makes a tremendous difference in your ability to retain things and the rate in which you progress..."

[Mandoist]

Yes, I have asked. In fact, he gave a similar response--that the clarinet method was used to train guitarists on the Tonight Show...


"Bucky" Pizzarelli?
No.

Mitch Holder?
No.

Jimmy Bruno?
No.

Peter Woodford?
No.

Jimmy Vivino?
No.

I personally don't buy the clarinet method (or other ideas) your 'teacher' has passed on to you. I would find a mandolinist, or better guitar teacher.

[John McGann]

Guitarists (and some mandolinists too) often use clarinet (sax, trumpet) books to practice sight reading, which has nothing to do with "a learning method". You need to work with someone who understands the instrument, or at least has a good grip of harmony. By pointing you toward a clarinet method, he's discounting the mandolin's harmonic possibilities, which have EVERYTHING to do with a better understanding of how music works, how improvisation can be understood and executed, where and why melodies work, etc.

Those Tonight Show guitarists would be the sight readers...there's no way they learned to play from a 'clarinet method'.

It's probably not doing any direct harm, but you are missing out on being able to develop your skills efficiently (i.e. not wasting time). Even if you have to travel a bit and take one lesson a month (and video tape it if at all possible) with a good mandolinist/teacher, it'll be worth it.

There are tons of DVDs out there (including my own, he tooted his own horn non-chalantly) that show you close ups of both hands to help you get your instrument specific technique happening. That's a resource available to just about anyone (if you reading this, you either have a computer or access to one!)

[chordbanger]

If he wanted to teach me the clarinet method, he better teach me how to play the Clarinet Polka, because that would sound great on the mandolin.

[Tim2723]

I'm not sure if this would be a real problem, but the clarinet is a transposing instrument. It sounds in a different key than is written on the page. Depending on the key of the clarinet, a written C might come out as a Bb or Eb (I think, it's been a long time since I've done that).

[Joe Dodson]

Yes, I have asked. In fact, he gave a similar response--that the clarinet method was used to train guitarists on the Tonight Show.

What on earth? I'm not saying there's nothing at all to be gained from instructional material for another instrument, but trying to learn mandolin from a clarinet book from someone who doesn't play mandolin in the first place sounds like a colossal waste of time (not to mention money on instructional fees) to me.

[Earl Gamage]

Find a mandolin teacher.

[Pete Martin]

If he wanted to teach me the clarinet method, he better teach me how to play the Clarinet Polka, because that would sound great on the mandolin.

It does, a number of us play it.:grin:

I agree with many folks here, it sounds like your teacher does not really know the mandolin. Of course, take my opinion with a hefty grain of salt as I have never met or taken lessons from him and you have. Guitar and mandolin technique are similar, but after a certain point, very different.

[cashreg]

Thanks for all the great responses! I'm planning on finding a different instructor--one that is an actual mandolinist. Thankfully, we had just started with the clarinet books, so I don't feel too cheated. If anything, I guess what little I've completed in the books has helped my reading.