PDA

View Full Version : Student wants mat'l too advanced for him??



PurplePlectrum
Nov-01-2009, 11:31am
I figured I would put this here because the expertise seemed to be from educated players hopefully teachers. Under the premise that this could happen with a mandolin student too...... I have a nice, intelligent older guitar student wants to me to teach him Pink Floyd's classic beginning to Wish You Were Here. So I worked on it to the point of being able to teach it/show it to him. My student is really a newbie and not ready to learn it. The boom chick is still a mystery to him. Will this give him a goal or should I clue him in? What should I do?

Explorer
Nov-01-2009, 12:36pm
I don't think of that intro as advanced, but there are a few things he'll have to master.

Your student will have to fret the highest two strings, at the third fret, throughout the whole intro with a partial barre of one fingertip. He could do two, but it would be better if he masters the one. I'd recommend the one finger be the ring finger.

At this point, he starts on a G chord for the low note, doing the run up to an E chord while maintaining those two fretted high strings. Then he goes down again, possibly holding the E chord until the final note of the run, where he goes to G.

I'd suggest showing him the A chord as a three-string barre using only the first joint of either the first or second finger. Second finger will help him with barre chords in general later. Again, the top two strings stay fretted.

The right hand has a constant strumming motion, even during the runs. He'll just not strike the strings on every strum. This is something he'll have to master anyway, but it's at the core of all rhythm guitar work, so why not?

Good luck!

PurplePlectrum
Nov-01-2009, 1:04pm
Well I appreiciate you outlining exactly what I practiced in order to even show this guy the song. Cool and very nicely written BUT the question remains, he CAN"T do it now! the G chord is not even possible. SO I have backed up with him to basic learning about scales and chords with only TWO fingers (basically half the guitar). I am extreemly patient! And have a reputation locally of being able to help this type and take on ADD/ADHD or autistic children . This lovely adult seems a little more deluded then any other oppotomistic adult I'v taught. I can't just teach him what he wants without achieving something. Really Angelina Baker is not sticking. I am asking for creative solutions or wordings of how to approach this pending lesson! Should I go ahead and teach him what he wants even if it's way beyond his ability?

Jordan Ramsey
Nov-01-2009, 1:58pm
I think teachers should always be upfront about their student's abilities, honest assessment is part of why you get paid. I don't suggest being rude, but if he works on just the Pink Floyd song for the next month or two and still can't even get close because it is way too hard for him at his current skill level, more that likely you both will be extremely frustrated and you will probably be out one student. All good teachers should be realistic with their students, especially when those students have unrealistic expectations. I know it is hard to tell people things that they don't want to hear sometimes, but you will be saving yourself a very frustrating month or two by tactfully coming clean and putting this one on the back burner. This doesn't mean you can't work on the tune, but it should be on the long-term goals list and approached with extreme baby steps until the student can get more comfortable with some basic techniques.

Explorer
Nov-01-2009, 4:06pm
I hadn't realised this student was physically or developmentally disabled. That's tough, and working with the mentally retarded can be a challenge. Recently at work, there was a period where someone was learning to find material which had been alphabetized, and we were worried that she wouldn't be able to get there. It took a few months, but learning the alphabet has made the transition from a rote task to an understanding of letter order.

Will this student continue to be incapable of three-finger chords? It can take quite a bit of rote practice to get down the fingering, but if one doesn't have full use of one's fingers (a common expression of Down's, for example), then it definitely comes down to a physical incapability. In that case, I'd probably start looking at aids like partial capos, which require only one or two fingers for many chords.

Are the disabilities physical, mental, or both?

kalenh
Nov-01-2009, 4:59pm
Lives in Central PA?(North Central) -Check :disbelief:
Has been diagnosed with ADD? -Check :disbelief:
Is an Adult? -Check :disbelief:
Ask's Instructor for about complicated pieces? -Check :confused:
Is learning Guitar? -No :redface:


PHEEEWWWWW

KristinEliza
Nov-01-2009, 5:59pm
I've had a few students ask me for pieces that were too difficult for them (and me...without A LOT of practice). I steered them to another piece. I looked to see if it was the particular style of the piece or the composer that had influenced the student's decision and tried to find something similar, but much easier and obtainable. However, these students had been playing for at least 6 or 7 years...

Maybe you could isolate some of the basic techniques that are needed in this solo, and teach those (maybe in a different tune) and work your way back to the desired solo.

Whenever I take on an adult student, I make sure they understand up front that it's going to be harder then they think it will be - their mind will grasp the concepts, but their hands will take a little longer, and it can be frustrating.

I hope this helps. I know it can be hard to tell your students the awful truth...but as previous posters have stated, that's why they are paying you in the long run. I've only had one teacher tell me I played something perfect...and it was followed by the inevitable 'but...'

Earl Gamage
Nov-01-2009, 7:38pm
Teaching students material too far beyond their level/understanding won't work. I've been there on the receiving end.

That's why a lot of guitar players can play a riff or two, or even a lot of riffs but can't play a complete tune, can't play a melody by ear and can't jam with anybody outside their normal few tunes.

Coffeecup
Nov-01-2009, 8:48pm
The approach taken when I was instructing in my career (non-music) was to assess the required knowledge, the student's current knowledge (and/or ability), then work out what knowledge had to be acquired to close the gap and get the student to the required level, breaking it down into small steps.

I guess the same can be applied to music, so that the student can be shown a plan with all the steps involved and an idea of how long each step could be expected to take. That will also create an achievable goal for each successive lesson. He could then either accept the enforced slow progress or decide that the whole idea is beyond what he's prepared to do. If it's the latter at least you aren't put in the position of saying a blunt "you aren't good enough".

This is probably pretty much what some of the other posters have suggested but making the long term lesson plan more formal.

San Rafael
Nov-02-2009, 8:38am
You could just teach him the lick (or even a simplified version of it, base string runs and chords). AND teach him the G chord and boom-chick.

TJ--thanks for the pointers on that intro. Printed it.

Jon Hall
Nov-02-2009, 8:51am
I would suggest working on what he wants to learn for 1/2 the lesson and on something more basic for the other 1/2.

craig.collas
Nov-02-2009, 9:05am
Hi
Can the piece be broken down into bits? What techneques are used?
What new skills can be brought to the situation and practice techs sold as a stairway to the goal ?
Are there gobits of information easily digestable that will bring clarity?