Damp-it "snake" humidifier - effect on sound?

[Michael Gowell]

At a recent workshop with Mike Compton, at one point he shook his Gilchrist and muttered "...ought to check the humidifier." He turned it so the top faced the floor and after a few shakes the end of a violin-style humidifier poked out of one of the f-holes. For those who haven't seen one it's like the guitar "Damp-it" humidifier with a roughly 10-inch green rubber hose containing a length of water-holding foam. Of course the mando style is about pencil-thick whereas the guitar style is about thumb-thick.

Mike explained that a sudden crack in the top of his Gil several years ago convinced him to escalate his humidification system to the damp-it.

But the guitar damp-it has a plastic shield that covers the sound hole to hold in the humidity and everything is removed when the guitar comes out of the case to be played. The mando damp-it has no f-hole shields and remains inside the mando body for X days until it's dry and time to re-moisten with water.

I'm sure it does its humidification job, but at what cost in sound? With so much made of the mandolin's "tuned air chamber" how can putting in what must amount to several cubic inches of foam and rubber not utterly change that "tuned" air space, not to mention the vibration-absorbing qualities of the foam and rubber? I have no argument to make, I'm just curious.

[maj34]

I use a Damp-It in the winter when my mandolin is in the case, but I take the humidifier out when I play it. I would think that it would absorb some of the sound if it were left inside the mandolin.

[MikeEdgerton]

I keep a dampit in my case with my Gibson, I don't put it inside the mandolin. I started using one on my Taylor guitar (they used to come with them) years ago after the top cracked.

[Tim2723]

I've frequently noted that the addition of internal electronics to AE mandolins has a noticeable effect on the sound, so I imagine adding an internal humidifier would too. Mass is mass. But I don't think I've ever heard of anyone playing the instrument with the Dampit in place. Why would anyone leave it in the chamber while playing?

[MikeEdgerton]

No, you take it out. I think the question is more about humidity and sound.

[Tim2723]

Maybe I misread the question, but I was responding to this part:

"...I'm sure it does its humidification job, but at what cost in sound? With so much made of the mandolin's "tuned air chamber" how can putting in what must amount to several cubic inches of foam and rubber not utterly change that "tuned" air space, not to mention the vibration-absorbing qualities of the foam and rubber? I have no argument to make, I'm just curious."

I'm probably confused, but it sounds to me like someone is leaving it in the hole.

[TonyP]

Well you have now Tim. I've used a Dampit, in my F5 Newson for at least 15 or more years. I leave it in all the time, and play with it in. It has a green plug on the end that keeps it from going all the way into my mando, so I don't have to fish it out like Mr. Compton. My Newson sounds so much better when it's been damped, and it seems like it works really good to dampen it about 2hrs before I play, if I've not been keeping up with it. I don't see any reason to take it out, it doesn't make any noise or rattle. I'm a believer. But, I also careful about how I "charge" it. I coil it up in my hand and run warm water on it. Then shake it out, and squeeze out the last 1/4 or so, and dry the outside before I put it back in the mando. It really makes a difference when I'm outside a lot. At a festival, when I'm pickin' a lot I have to recharge it like every other day. When I'm inside, and using the mando a lot, once or twice a week. It's not harmed my mando, and it's an '86, with no cracks. And in the Central Valley of CA, it's DRY. Most times around 18 to 21 percent humidity during the summer.

[Tim2723]

Thanks Tony. I don't think there's any question about playing a properly humidified instrument, but you're the first person I've ever met who leaves it in to play. You don't notice any difference in tone that way? I'm not saying it would change the tone, but it kinda seems like it, well...should. Then again, I suppose the tone change from a dried out mandolin would be a bigger problem than a Dampit in the hole.

[allenhopkins]

Apparently the OP saw Mike Compton playing with the Dampit still in his mandolin. I would think that this is the "minority" technique, and most take the humidifier out before playing. However, I think some empirical observations would be needed to determine how much the Dampit would "dampen" the sound of the instrument. The effect could range from negligible to significant. Trying to determine the effect without actually performing the test, is sorta shooting in the dark, IMHO.

[TonyP]

"Then again, I suppose the tone change from a dried out mandolin would be a bigger problem than a Dampit in the hole. "

EXACTLY Tim. It would seem it doesn't bother Mr. Compton to play with it in either. And there's always that question about putting a rattlesnake rattle in the mando. You KNOW that has to make noise. My mando is very tight sounding when it's dry. I hear no difference if I take the dampit out after it's done it's trick. And if leave it in, I always know where it is, and don't loose it. Bonus, score.

[pops1]

It gets dry in the winter here, but i don't use a dampit, i choose to humidify the house, it's cheap and helps everything in your house including you house and your nose. Since an instrument is like a sponge and will absorb moisture very quickly, but take weeks to dry out leaving the house for gigs or even a weekend has not seemed to have an effect on drying out my mandolin. When i used to use the dampit i had to wet it daily to keep it moist and the humidifier takes care of all the instruments with less hassle. Worked well for the last 20 years or so.

[Tim2723]

Oddly, I've never had a problem with humidity as far as stringed instruments go. I have LOTS of problems with woodwind instruments in winter, but I've never had a crack, check, craze, or any other humidity problem with a stringed instrument. Of course, most of my mandolins never live long enough to see too many winters.

[Mandoist]

My personal experiences steered me away from the violin (mandolin) Damp-It years ago. Issues of mine & my student's with the Damp-It were:

* Leaving it too wet, even slightly, and having moisture damage paper label inside.
* Water droplet stain on inside back.
* Eventually realizing the violin Damp-It did not actually live up to its humidification duties...especially in a bass; dried out too quickly.

I've since opted for the units that fit inside the case, which hold more moisture and last longer as well. Using a high quality hair hygrometer, I have found these units are more consistent than any other portable humidifier. I think you really should have a quality hygrometer to monitor the case humidity as the weather changes...and adjust the case humidifier accordingly. It really doesn't take long to become familiar with the humidifier's routine.

I've been using the Planet Waves oval-shaped (and unintrusive) case humidifiers (and also their guitar hole unit) since they were first made available. They actually work, at least according to my hair hygromoeter.

Regardless, those rubber hose thingies do not hold enough mositure to be effective for long -- if at all.

[Tom C]

I use a film canister. I poked a lot of holes in it and put in a damp sponge. I just leave it in the case.

[Michael Gowell]

As the OP I appreciate the many remarks about humidification in general, but my point was specifically about leaving a damp-it in the instrument while playing. From my personal observation Mr. Compton does so, at least some of the time. His extensive travelling across the country and into many different climates may well justify a slight loss in sound because the gain in instrument protection is worth it. I was just curious what others thought about it - thanks for your responses.

[Strado Len]

I have violin size dampits for all of my mandolins. Leaving the dampit in does have a slight effect on the sound, but not a major one. I generally take the dampit out when I play, but on occasion I have left it in and not noticed.

The main problem with these devices is that you have to be careful to squeeze some of the water out and dry the snake before putting it in the instrument. Generally, when this is done, my dampits dry out in a day, and the whole process has to be repeated on a daily basis.

[Mandoist]

It's all relative, really. Everybody has their own reasoning for such things.

But whatever your choice of humidification, and if you really care for your instrument, I gotta believe a quality hygrometer is required. At least to have any assurance at all that the humidity level in the case is satisfactory...and SAFE.

[TonyP]

It is truly relative, and what I've seen on the millions of threads(its seems) on the subject, nobody makes anything that's truly accurate. I rely on my ears. If I've over humidified, I can hear it. If it's under humidified, I can hear it. And contrary to others, I hate high humidity, so humidifying the house doesn't work for me. And yes, 50% seems humid to me. And I never leave my mando out of the case when I'm not playing it, so what good would a whole house humidifier do anyway?

The place most cracks happen are in the body, around the ff holes. So, in my puny understanding, why would I put something outside the body, in basically another compartment of the case, and that's usually where this supposed all knowing hydrometer is, and expect it would really be correct? To each his own, but that makes no sense to me.

I guess to show what a nutjob I really am, I believe humidifying while playing is more effective, as the wood's basically being worked. And since I can hear no sonic difference with it in the body or out, I also believe it makes no difference it being in the "chamber".

[acousticnotes]

I use the damp-it on some guitars. I do take them out when I play them just because they sit between the strings. I really don't like anything wet in a solid wood instrument if I can help it. I also didn't like the idea of humidifying the whole house. So I built a cabinet out of wood with a glass front so I could read the hydro meter. I have a tray that has sponges in it for humidifying. It works great. I have 2 guitars and a mando in it now but soon I will have to build another one because I have collected to many instruments to hold them all. :) The nice thing about it is you always can see your instruments which leads to more playing time.:mandosmiley: