Someone please tell me??

[Willie Poole]

I have been playing mandolin for over 40 years and I feel stupid for asking but ...What is an Octave mandolin? How does it differ from a normal mandolin that we all know?....I guess its my old age that makes me so forgetfull....

Willie

[John Flynn]

An octave mandolin, as pictured in my current avatar, is generally tuned GDAE, but an octave below a regular mandolin. It is a larger instrument. A regular mandolin typically has a scale length of about 14" give or take, and an octave mandolin will have scale length of between 19" and 23".

[JEStanek]

Willie, an octave mandolin is a longer scaled (~18-22+ inches vs a mandolin's ~14 inches) instrument tuned GG, DD, AA, EE one octave below a mandolin. You can hear some on this page (http://www.folkofthewood.com/page2522.htm). The Trinity College brand is considered a good starting point for beginner Octave Mandolins.

This photo from 12thfret.com in Canada has the Trinity College Mandolin, mandola, and Octave mandolin in one photo so you can see the differences in size.
http://www.12fret.com/retail/Trinity_college_mandolin_mandola_bouzouki.jpg

Jamie

PS Cross posting with John!

[Charley wild]

Okay, if I wanted to take a mandola and tune it like a mandolin would I use mandolin strings or octave mandolin strings? Or either? I have actually thought of doing this, especially with octive mandolin strings. I'm sure I'm not the first one to think of this. A lower sound but a shorter scale. I couldn't imagine doing a four-finger G on an octave mandolin!!

[John Flynn]

Okay, if I wanted to take a mandola and tune it like a mandolin would I use mandolin strings or octave mandolin strings? Or either? I have actually thought of doing this, especially with octive mandolin strings. I'm sure I'm not the first one to think of this. A lower sound but a shorter scale. I couldn't imagine doing a four-finger G on an octave mandolin!!
To tune a 16" scale mandola as an octave mandolin, you would have to use a custom string set and the G strings would have to be like railroad tracks. You would also have to have to buy ball end strings and either convert them, or use a tailpiece that accepts them, because you won't find all the gauges available in loop end. I calculate the strings needed would be .064w, .042w, .028w, .018p. I would start with those and then adjust up or down based on how you like the tension. If you try it, let us know how it turned out.

[Charley wild]

Wow! Glad I asked! I've used smaller gauges on a Dobro! Doesn't look like it's worth the trouble.

[allenhopkins]

...A lower sound but a shorter scale. I couldn't imagine doing a four-finger G on an octave mandolin!!

Yeah, you find you have to modify your chord fingerings on an OM, which is close to a guitar scale. The Trinity College OM pictured above advertises a 20 3/8 inch scale length, which is about as short as octave mandolins get. Still five inches longer than a mandola, probably seven inches longer than most mandolins.

My advice is: if you want the sound of an octave mandolin, get one. They're not ruinously expensive, if you choose from among the decent Asian makes. I am inherently suspicious of trying to get the sounds of one kind of instrument, by stringing another kind of instrument with strings for which it wasn't designed. Unless you're Tommy Todisco...

[Charley wild]

Thanks guys. I love this forum. You can ask dumb questions and get smart answers. Actually, Allen, I have this thing about mandolas and probably should just get a mandola and learn to play it. I ain't that great on mandolin and it shouldn't take me that long to be not too great on a mandola.

[JEStanek]

Charley, I'm probably gonna do the same thing.

Jamie

[allenhopkins]

I ain't that great on mandolin and it shouldn't take me that long to be not too great on a mandola.

Worked for me!

[Rob Gerety]

I've been thinking about this too. How is a mandola tuned? Is it 5ths? Can you use same fingerings as you do on mando - just recognize the chords are in different places on the neck? Is that the basic idea?

[allenhopkins]

I've been thinking about this too. How is a mandola tuned? Is it 5ths? Can you use same fingerings as you do on mando - just recognize the chords are in different places on the neck? Is that the basic idea?

Exactly right, Grasshopper! Mandola's tuned like a viola, CGDA low to high. It's as if you took the top string off your mandolin, and added a lower string on the other side, but with the same relation to the string above it as you had on the mandolin: C-7th fret-G-7th fret-D-7th fret-A.

So what you call a G chord on your mandolin, becomes a C chord on your mandola. You get good at what I call "head transposition": "The tune's in the key of D, but on the mandola, I play it as if it were in the key of A and I were playing my mandolin." Gets pretty instinctive after awhile.

A wonderful instrument, great for doubling melodies an octave below, adding harmonies and counter-melodies, and putting in "bigger sounding" chords. Also accompanies vocals well, since it's closer to the expected lower register for accompaniment than the more treble mandolin.

[Charley wild]

Also accompanies vocals well, since it's closer to the expected lower register for accompaniment than the more treble mandolin.

That's what interests me. I think Blues would be easier for me to sing and also, although I've never heard Blues played on a mandola, I think I'd like the sound a bit better than on a mandolin.

[JEStanek]

I believe Mike Compton is now playing a Duff Mandola to better accompany his vocals on many things.

Jamie

[CES]

You guys are killing me. I'd pretty much talked myself down from the mandola ledge, rationalizing, "Dude, just get better on the mando, you don't need another instrument to learn, in a different tuning at that." Now I'm back to, "Well, it wouldn't be THAT hard..."

Thanks a lot :)

[JEStanek]

Compton on his Duff Mandola.
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From this thread (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?p=502747&highlight=mandola#post502747).

My mandola option will likely be a Spira. Only a matter of time (=money).

Jamie

[Charley wild]

Thanks Jaime! Now I can say I have heard the Blues played on a mandola. Sounded great to me. Of course look who was doing it!:)

[JEStanek]

You're welcome. That's a pretty high bar to aim for too. It's good to be inspired.

Jamie

[Willie Poole]

Thanks to all of you for the info...I got more than I bargained for but found it interesting to read all of the differences......At a festival years ago a fellow asked me if I had an electronic tuner and could I install new strings on his "Mandolin" I tried and got all of them in tune except for the E strings and I must have broken three of them before someone told me it was a mandola and not a mandolin...Thats what Jim Beam will do for you, I didn`t even notice the difference in size...
Thanks again....Willie

[DerTiefster]

Well, the O.P. asked about octave mandolins, we've drifted to mandolas, and here I'll try to merge the two back together: I was reading the (very long but very interesting) thread on Flatiron pancakes and found one poster who was very happy with a Flatiron mandola (17" scale) down-tuned to octave mandolin. This poster used FT76s (0.053" bass string) on a mandola that Flatiron recommended only up to 0.049" string diameter. I have followed suit, and I'm happy. Much bigger and the nut and bridge might have to be altered, and I'm not up for doing that. But now I have a mandola (though I'll have to re-string it to go to CGDA without ovetensioning it) and can play octave mandolin on it. The octave -does- have the same fingering as the mandolin. Flatiron made some 23.5" bouzouki - OctaveMandolin instruments, too, and if I can find a a 3MB to go with my 3MB mandola I'd be inclined to buy it. (hint, hint)