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J. Mark Lane
Feb-10-2004, 10:57am
I recently played a Collings. It ruined me. I have never played a Gibson Master Model. I do plan to make a trip to Mandolin Bros soon, and hopefully can do some real comparison. But I was wondering what the thoughts of others are. Dealing at this level, are there differences I should expect between these instruments as a matter of course? Or is it just a matter of each mandolin has its own qualities, etc?

Thanks.

Mark

GTison
Feb-10-2004, 11:59am
When I went shopping for a mandolin. I played 3 Collings seems like 128,129 130. (At different stores I might add) They were very consistant in tone and volume to my ears. I played them next to some gibson ferns ( not MMs, sorry).
The sound difference was striking to me. The collings had more sustain, and more volume, and had a different tone overall. A more "modern" sound to me. Great mandolins. I bought a fern that was almost as loud but seemed warmer in the "chop", and "purer" in the trebles up the neck. Also I didn't like the feel of the neck. But the neck for me is crutial right now cause of hand problems. Also I could't let the action down as much on the M5s. Somebody Help here that's played the MM. Maverick???

Feb-10-2004, 1:06pm
Bowfinger you are correct the Collings have a more modern sound. The Collings are killer mandolins as is the Master Model. They are 2 totally different critters. The Master will have a more mid-range focus and more cutting power than the Collings. Basically the Master is the more bluegrassy sounding instrument. The Collings however will be more tonewise rounded and warm if that makes any since? I think you would be pleased with both whichever you had to choose. Just depends in your sound that you are going after.

wallflower
Feb-10-2004, 2:23pm
Maverick -
#
You nailed it!

Having owned both, I couldn't agree more with what Maverick wrote. #To me the Master Model has the definitive bluegrass sound and that's why I own one and let the Collings go. #Having said that, the Collings is a great sounding instrument and it does have a more modern sound. #That's why I prefer the Master Model for bluegrass. #"The" bluegrass sound, IMHO has a distinctive decay that allows the sound to come through, while providing a very woody tone and chop. #And yet, while the Master Model has that quality, it can also be played in a way that makes it sound like a fine classical instrument. #The Master Model, when new, does have a very mid-range focus, but as they mature, I think they develop a much stronger bass and treble. #It's hard to describe, but they are really wonderful mandolins.

creekwater
Feb-10-2004, 6:21pm
Dad blame, are ya'll a bunch of scientists or what? Now here ya'll go suprizing me! I thought that ya'll said a Gibson COULD NOT BE BEAT! And now here ya'll are talking about a Collings sounding better sometimes. What gives guys? Are you going to stick to your guns or not? Why on my post ya'll was giving me down the country for saying what I thought of the Gibson F-5s I've played, and critisizing me for what I said, and now here are some of ya'll saying similar things, but in a much fancier way. Bunch of hippocrites! Ya'll talk about "the voice", and "the midrange", and "the trebles", and "the bass". It ain't all that complicated. A mandolin sounds like its supposed to or it don't. A Bluegrass mandolin needs to be "LOUD", all the way up the neck, and needs to sound like its going to "JUMP OUT OF YOUR HANDS EVERY TIME YOU HIT IT"! It don't get no plainer than that. Now come on, feel free to jump on in here and bash me awhile. Every Gibson F-5 I've picked in the past year has been "DOGS", but I did pick a Gibson F-9 that sounded like it's supposed to.

wallflower
Feb-10-2004, 8:07pm
creekwater -

I was trying to make some informative statements for someone that asked a reasonable question. #I wasn't trying to engage in nit picking about one mandolin versus another. #I believe that's a useless activity. #I'd rather hear the positive attributes about mandolins rather than the petty gripes that end up sounding like revenge or negativity. #You present yourself as a very negative person with an axe to grind, and your numerous posts all over this board are proof of that fact. #I, for one, wish you'd either find a new Internet location to post your negative thoughts or decide to change your attitude.

goose
Feb-10-2004, 9:45pm
I own a Master Model but have played several of the Collings Fs and the As. The Collings do have a rounder more mellow sound than the MM. To me they sound "muddy". By that I mean that they do not have the amazing clarity and separation of notes that the MMs do. I think that is because of the finish differences and not specifically because it is a Gibson or Collings. It may also have something to do with the tops but I don't know if the Collings come with red(like the MM) or sitka. Varnish finished instruments have more clarity and projection than lacquer, generally speaking. I have played some nice sounding Collings. I definitely think there is a difference tonally between the two and you should pick that which turns you on. As you know, there is a big price difference.

Feb-10-2004, 9:54pm
Creekwater .... Loud is not always good. tone is where it is at. I would rather have a mandolin with great tone than a loud sucky toned mando.

I have owned both Collings and Masters. They are both good but totally different tonewise.

BigJoe
Feb-10-2004, 11:50pm
THere are a couple of differences that make a radical contrast in the two instruments and they cannot adequately be compared as apples to apples, but rather apples to oranges. #First, the Collings is a lacquer finished instrument. #Lacquer can be a good finish material, but it does not play or sound like a varnish instrument. #The MM is varnished. #That gives a radical difference in the sound and playability. #I'm not saying one is better than the other, but some prefer one to the other. #I prefer varnish. #That is a personal preference. There is a difference in philosophy in the way each of us builds also. That, again, is a personal preference thing. I have owned a Collings A and it was pretty. It was not my cup of tea and I sold it...acutally, to Maverick. I'm glad there are more choices than just ours in the market. I still thinks ours are heads and shoulders above others, but that too is personal preference.

I realize my words are held as suspect because of my employer. The Collings are pretty though and many do like them. #Good thing we don't all have the same preferences http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

J. Mark Lane
Feb-11-2004, 11:02am
Thanks for the comments, guys (well, most of you <g>, some comments we could do without). I hadn't focused on the varnish/laquer issue. Of course, I do realize there is a substantial difference in price, but at that price level three or four grand difference somehow doesn't seem to much matter (if you're spending $7k, spending $10k isn't much different). Anyway, it will be a few months before I make another purchase, and I will be visiting MandoBros in the meantime to try out some of these.

Thanks again.

Steven Stone
Feb-11-2004, 11:38am
[A Bluegrass mandolin needs to be "LOUD", all the way up the neck, and needs to sound like its going to "JUMP OUT OF YOUR HANDS EVERY TIME YOU HIT IT"! It don't get no plainer than that. Now come on, feel free to jump on in here and bash me awhile. Every Gibson F-5 I've picked in the past year has been "DOGS"]

While loudness is part of the sound, there is a point where tone becomes more important that just loudness. The term "depth of tone" is an important component of a great mandolin.

As for the dogs you've played, you need to get out more. If you had played more Gibson F-5's you'd see how good the new ones can be.

My take on Collings has been they are always very good, but none has grabbed me. Their tone has less character than I like - too neutral, not enough depth of tone. I personally miss the feeling of human craftsmanship - they are so clean and precise in a perfectly machined way that lacks the human touch.

IMHO you need a bit of human funk in an instrument. Gibson (and other hand-built mandos) got the funk.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Andrew Reckhart
Feb-11-2004, 11:44am
Computer designed and built instruments tend to look amazing, but sometimes lack 'character of sound' or individuality. At least in my opinion, the small imperfections/ inconsistencies/ differences in a hand built mandolin create slight sonic differences that give each piece a unique voice.
As stated above this is only my opinion and I am not a certified expert on anything.

Big Joe
Feb-11-2004, 12:21pm
I hope my earlier post did not seem harsh to any maker. That is not my intent. Merely an opinion and some information for those interested. Mandolins, like many things, are very personal. Our likes and dislikes can be formed from many inputs. What I think may not agree with what you think. That makes neither of us right or wrong, just different.

I was amazed this past weekend at SPBGMA how many people played the distressed master model and the regular. About half felt the distressed sounded much, much better than the regular master model. The other half felt the regular master model was much much better than the distressed. Were either wrong? No. Everyone has different tastes and that is the real issue. The thrust of my earlier post was not to speak towards anyone elses product in any way but to show they are not apples for apples. Each has a different niche in the market and they are both very well made. Sorry if I made my personal preference to visible. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

Feb-11-2004, 12:37pm
In the past i had openly questioned this very issue of "Collings neutrality" of tone. My sense is that the longer they develop thru being played....the more depth of tone they have. Initially, they seem to have loads of overtones flying off the top. As the fundamental tones solidify the depth appear to be wonderfully rich. It will be very interesting to see what people are saying about Collings mandolins in another 5-10 years. I happen to like them very much. I do wish they would offer a non V shaped neck though. Also, saving $3-4K is still nice for a Master Level instrument.

Nick Triesch
Feb-11-2004, 7:52pm
If I remember right Gibson uses a cnc machine...just like Collings and Weber and most other big name and little name builders. Nick

Nick Triesch
Feb-11-2004, 8:04pm
Mr Stone, you just crack me up! Human touch? The Nugget mandolins I've seen were just about perfect in every way. Just like a Weber fern or a Collings MF5 . I believe that the Gibson mandolins have the look they have because either Gibson is going for the more raw look or they just do not want to put in the time. But I still think there is much hand work involved in building a Weber fern or a Collings MF5. I like Gibson mandolins but a human can still make them look better if not perfect. IMHO. Nick

Crowder
Feb-11-2004, 8:22pm
Of course, I do realize there is a substantial difference in price, but at that price level three or four grand difference somehow doesn't seem to much matter (if you're spending $7k, spending $10k isn't much different). #
And so you've fallen for Gibson's trap http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

You can't forget that three grand is three grand, no matter what you're buying. Of course, the first three grand is the most important! There are lots of great builders who will build you a fantastic varnish F5 for a lot less than $10-12 large.

Stuff the three grand in an IRA instead of a mandolin, and it will probably double every 6-8 years, tax-free.

Feb-11-2004, 8:39pm
Does anyone know which mando giant is selling the most "units"? Who are the top 3? Does anyone track this who's objective? I'd have to think Collings mandolins must be the most consistent mandolins ever produced.

Bill James
Feb-11-2004, 10:17pm
Computer designed and built instruments tend to look amazing, but sometimes lack 'character of sound' or individuality.

Sometimes CNC machines get a bad rap. Ya just can't build a mandolin with a CNC. You can do some of the cutting, but we're talking about the cutting edge of a tool whacking away bits of wood. The mandolin doesn't care if it's held in someones hand or mounted to a CNC router. The tone is determined by many factors. People have to massage, fit, and assemble the parts and apply the finish. If you think a mandolin looks "amazing" it's testimony to the builder, not so much the tools. Also, no two pieces of wood are the same.

Steven Stone
Feb-11-2004, 11:35pm
[Mr Stone, you just crack me up! Human touch? The Nugget mandolins I've seen were just about perfect in every way. Just like a Weber fern or a Collings MF5 ]

Have you really looked at these three mandos close up?

They are quite different in their fit and finish. Nuggets, Gilchrists, and Collings have VERY different levels of "perfection."

Look at the way Collings cuts their bindings - they use a computer cutting machine and cut the headstock bindings out of a whole piece of binding material. The grain doesn't run around the edge - it all runs in the same direction. Gil and Nugget BEND their bindings - THAT is the human touch.

Weber uses a bolt-on neck instead of a dovetail - again a more high tech and less "high-touch" method than a dovetail.

Perhaps you should look a bit more carefully next time...craftsmanship is all about the human touch. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Nick Triesch
Feb-11-2004, 11:38pm
very well said mr james. By the way, You better believe that C.F. Martin uses a CNC machine. And their HD 28's sure don't have those human little marks and finish blunders on them. Nick

Bradley
Feb-12-2004, 7:21am
[QUOTE]You better believe that C.F. Martin uses a CNC machine.

Maybe this explains the decline in their quality over the past 10-12 years.The cuts in their headstocks and upper nexk areas look like you did it with a hacksaw.Nothing like their work prior to the early 90's.There is a HUGE difference in the quality of their standard models and the "limited" models as well.I am not throwing rocks,but as a engineer I just notice those things when I look at their products.

Collings makes a mighty fine mandolin.I had one of their M2's.I loved the feel of their neck and bigger frets.The sound was something "different", not bad just different.I feel that they lack soul/personality.(Kinda like the FemBots on Austin Powers...they have the looks but just lack something)I have never played a F style from them, but expect they are similar.Again they are nice mando's

As far as production goes,Collings has to be the Leader in units.Gibson produces about 1.5 mandolins(MM) per month if I remember correctly.I would go on a limb and say that Collings produces more in a month than Gibson(MM)does in a year.

I'll stay with the one that doesnt seem perfect,but gives me the "Benchmark Sound".Dont mean that in a wrong attitude,just love the Gibson Sound and workmanship.

Disclaimer:comments are personal opinion and are not meant to discredit the Colling or Martin owners that read my post http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

J. Mark Lane
Feb-12-2004, 8:34am
[QUOTE]You better believe that C.F. Martin uses a CNC machine.

Maybe this explains the decline in their quality over the past 10-12 years.
I'm restraining myself here in not using stronger language, in saying that the above quote is just absolutely ridiculous. Martin's quality is higher than it has been in at least five decades.

In certain absolute terms, their quality is higher than it has ever been. They are building guitars at the very top of the spectrum -- like the CEO V, the GE Series, the 45 Series and a number of the special models. These guitars are extremely nice and are better made than any Martins from the past. Indeed, even the finest small shops will have a hard time beating that level of quality (and the Martins will almostly certain increase in value more).

At the other end of the spectrum, Martin is building guitars that are the best values on the market today, like the 16 Series. They are all very well made.

I thought it was pretty well accepted in the guitar community that Martin is at the top of their game today. It baffles me that anyone can make a statement like the above.

wheelhoss
Feb-12-2004, 8:59am
There are a number of great currently built mandolins on the
market with what has been referred to as #"modern" tone,
Collings being one among many. #I own several of this variety, and I feel they are excellent in their own right. #The Master Model from Gibson is another story altogether, with qualties that set it apart from most other builders. #The look and feel of these babies are as close to the original 1923 Gibson F5's as you will find today, if that's what you want. #The overall tonal balance (at least in mine) is darker & fatter than most "modern" sounding mandolins. #The "decay" of notes on the MM seems to be faster than the other type, giving it more clarity....this seems to me to be the most striking difference heard in the MM when initially compared with the Collings type. #I enjoy playing both the MM and the other "modern" sounding mandolins I own. One has to play and live with the MM for a while (for me it's been 2 years) before it starts to really show it's stuff, though. #Whether one would prefer the MM or the "modern" sounding mandolin is a matter of taste.

# # Ron Kaye

AlanN
Feb-12-2004, 9:41am
Back to the LOUD IS BETTER comment:

Absolute hooey. I've had pickers play my old F-5, say something to the effect - Well, mine is louder.

I say - Lemme have my mandolin back...:;):

Big Joe
Feb-12-2004, 4:19pm
I'm sure our total production exceeds other American made instruments. Understand we have several models going at the same time. The Collings is more closely comparable to the Fern rather than the Master Model. They are both lacquer mandolins and in the same price range. That would be a more equal test than comparing the MM to the Collings. I'm sure you will find that each are nice instruments, but they do have a different sound and that is the way it should be. I do appreciate the fact that Collings is trying to do their own thing in the most part and have their own sound and look. If that is what you like, go for it. For those that don't, there are plenty of other makers on the planet. There is a market for each of us and trying to play who is the best is very difficult because all too often the comparisons are not equal. Once we get an even playing field it makes comparisons far more accurate and less aruguments over who has the biggest...???

doanepoole
Feb-12-2004, 4:25pm
Does anyone know which mando giant is selling the most "units"? Who are the top 3? Does anyone track this who's objective? I'd have to think Collings mandolins must be the most consistent mandolins ever produced.

I'm interested in this as well, out of nothing more than sheer curiosity. If I had to guess, I'd guess Weber, only because all the "big mando stores" in a comfortable driving radius from here have tons of Webers, and maybe 1 or 2 of any other kind of mando...might be a local thing.

Bluegrass Boy
Feb-12-2004, 5:32pm
Big Joe
As someone whose main instruments are a Collings mando and a Collings dreadnaught, I must say I really appreciate your objective approach and reasonable tone. Pissing matches over which great instrument is the greatest are pretty silly. However, I suspect that a bit of friendly competition between instrument makers can do nothing but keep the quality of the instruments steadily improving. It's great to read informative input from you and Charlie. I'm glad the people who are making Gibson mandos (and guitars?) are nice decent folks. I do have my eye on a Koa Nick Lucas Custom. If I ever get it, knowing that there's good people at Gibson will just make the deal even better.

mandoJeremy
Feb-12-2004, 5:56pm
I can offer this experience for that "louder is better" quote. The first time I met Sam Bush was when we were playing at RockyGrass and he let me play Hoss for the first time. I think he could see the surprise on my face that it wasn't as loud as I thought it would be after many years of listening to him and his powerful tone. He looked at me and said "My Andersen is much louder but that one has that vintage tone". That opened my eyes forever in the fact that tone is much more powerful than just loud.

Bradley
Feb-12-2004, 6:14pm
Sorry J.Mark, didnt mean to ruffle feathers.

I would agree that their special guitars(GE,CEO,Limiteds)are great.I meant the standard D series which I feel have been lacking for years in order to elevate the special series.

Of course we all agree on somethings and disagree on others...I have several Martins under my belt with a very special HD-28V that I love. I just see a lack of input on their standard line that all.

Now back to MAndos

doanepoole
Feb-12-2004, 6:54pm
I think he could see the surprise on my face that it wasn't as loud as I thought it would be after many years of listening to him and his powerful tone.

You know, without the benefit of having played it, I have always thought that Hoss was a sort of quiet mandolin, though one with beautiful tone. Always kept my mouth shut, as its probably blasphemy in some circles to say so.

J. Mark Lane
Feb-12-2004, 8:11pm
Well, you have a point there, Bradley. The more narrow statement that the Standard Series are a bit of a let-down in light of what is being done with some of the models like the HD... I tend to agree. When one plays, say, a D18GE (and these just blow me away), and then plays a Standard D18... one wonders... what happened here? If that's the "Golden Era," then ... what is this? And why? Right on. Interestingly, to me, the 16 Series have sort of become the "standard series." I would buy a D16 in a heartbeat (if I needed another guitar, sigh). But I would not buy a new D18 Standard Series, even if the extra bucks meant nothing to me. If I wanted more than a serviceable dread, I'd spring for a GE or something.

Anyway, as you say, back to mandos.

Joe and all others: great comments, and much appreciated. Before this life is over, I will have one of Charlie D's MM's. But I do think I want one of those Collings's, too.... So many fine instruments! Life is good.

Mark

pickinNgrinnin
Feb-13-2004, 12:30am
Bradley-

My HD-28 is completely flawless and the tone is to die for. If you think the standard series line is not what is used to be, then I must either have an exception or you need to get out and look around more. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I've played a bunch of HD-28V's and aside from some cosmetic differences, i.e. toner, not Waverly's and fretboard inlay they seem fairly similar to my HD-28. The neck is different but I'm not able to detect any tonal or volume differences from the forward shifted braces. Martin uses the same grade Spruce in the HD--28 as they do in the 40's series. I've found the Vintage series Guitars to be very nice but they don't stand that far apart from the Standard series IMO. YMMV etc. OK...now back to Mando content

GTison
Feb-13-2004, 9:54am
MM vs. Collings was the subject.

Big Joe
Feb-13-2004, 10:01am
While we are on our tangent, I personally love the Santa Cruz Tony Rice model. It blows every other rosewood guitar I've played out of the water and the fit and finish and set up is as close to perfect as I've ever found. I also have a Bourguous (sp?) slope D with mahogany back and red spruce top that is incredible. Again, perfect fit finish and set up. I have a gibson AJ brazilian that is a great guitar and a Martin that I've had for twenty years that I truly love, however, the choice for me is my Santa Cruz.

jlb
Feb-13-2004, 10:17am
While we are on our tangent, I personally love the Santa Cruz Tony Rice model.

Gotta disagree here...have played about 5 Tony Rices, not one in the bunch had any "balls", as they say in the dreadnought world, to speak of at all. Maybe I got a hold of some duds, or maybe balls is just not what they're after.

To get semi-back on subject, I like the Collings guitars...but why spend more money when you get the same sound out of a Martin.

I've always admired the sound that Huss & Daltons produce, and love Gallaghers in a totally different way.

Like the mandolin world, there certainly are a whole lot of quality builders to choose from in the guitar world.

doanepoole
Feb-13-2004, 10:48am
I had similar experiences with Santa Cruz's back when I was in the market for a high quality guitar. #Tried one Tony Rice model, just didn't grab me. #However, there was a Tony Rice Professional (or whatever they call their high end model) in the same store that was a real gem, but way out of my price range.

I wonder if Santa Cruz will ever get into the mandolin game. #Seems like alot of guitar builders are starting to cash in on the mandolin craze.

I played a coworkers Froggy Bottom, and its a really cool guitar all around.

Any body see that new Martin Norman Blake model. At 10 grand, its up there, but sure looks nice.

mike_c
Feb-13-2004, 11:03am
i spent 4 years #looking for a second mandolin that would stand up to my main instrument, a 1980 Monteleone M-5..in those years i bought a Stiver, Givens, Cole, Zeidler, Monteleone F-5, Monteleone Grand Artist..then i played a collings f-5...my search was over..i sold all the rest, except the first monteleone and the new collings mf-5...i'm all done looking for mandolins..modern tone??? good is good, and quality is quality.. period

GTison
Feb-16-2004, 11:11am
Mike did you play more than one collings mf-5 before you found the ONE. If so did you find them very consistant in tone and volume? Thanks.

troika
Feb-18-2004, 12:34pm
I happen to own a Master Model and a Collings F (I owned two Collings but sold the other one). So at one time I abc'd three awesome mandolins. Here's my take; The Collings has incredible eveness across the strings and all the way up the neck. They have a very prevalent high end with alot of sustain, but they don't sound metallic. You can dig in and get a great woody sound or you can play lighter and float over the top and get a shimmering "jewely" sound rich in overtones. That kind of response makes it easier for me to play really fast and get the tone I like. As far as the attention to detail and the overall perfection in fit and finish is concerned, I have not seen better. You simply cannot find a flaw. The carve in the arched top and back is perfect. The woods are fantastically beautiful. I could spend nearly as much time looking at it as playing it. I've had one of his flat top guitars for 10 years now and still haven't played or seen anything better. Bill Collings just doesn't let anything out of his shop that isn't perfect. The only question I have about the MF5 is about the neck joinery. I'm not sure if he uses a dovetail, mortise & tenon, or bolt on. To me it doesn't matter. They look, sound, and play like a dream mandolin. Now on to the MM: The one I have is very special. It has an incredible vibe to it, one that makes you want to live in a cabin for a couple months with nothing but that mandolin. When I open the case I can hear it resonating just from the sound waves in the room. It's almost like it's talking back to you even before you pick it up. The finish on it (varnish) is beautiful. There are tiny "makers marks" on certain areas particularly where the neck and body meet. To me those aren't flaws but beauty marks that lend character to the instrument. Also the varnish is applied over the binding which gives it a really cool vintage look. The flat fingerboard and thin wire frets play like a dream with low action and the whole mandolin has a beautiful throaty tone. When you dig in the MM gives you an awesome organic and woody sound that I haven't experienced with any other mandolin. It is no wonder that everyone is after that sound. It is tremendously satisfying. To sum up: Collings; fast, flawless, ringing, like a race car or a super model (mine's blonde). Gibson MM; Rich, vintage, warm, vibrant, responsive, like a Rolls Royce or my wife (except for the rich part). I hope this helps, now off to my Mandos.

Feb-18-2004, 6:13pm
Troika...very well stated. That is exactly what i would have expected. Sure you don't need a new friend?

jcs271
Feb-18-2004, 6:55pm
Troika, for info the Collings neck IS dove tailed.

J. Mark Lane
Feb-18-2004, 7:12pm
Who was that masked man?

Troika, that may be the best description of a musical instrument (or instruments) I've ever read. Reminds me of Barney Kessel talking about the guitar.... I particularly like the supermodel/wife comparison. <G>

Thanks.

Mark

Nick Triesch
Feb-18-2004, 7:38pm
jcs271, The Collings mandolin neck is put together with two bolts. Check it out on their website. It's under facts number 6. Weber is also joined with two bolts. Nick.

troika
Feb-18-2004, 9:31pm
I checked out the site. I think that is a depiction of how guitar necks are attached
I have an old D2H. This joinery makes resetting the neck much easier when the time comes (and it almost always comes with well played flat tops, especially with medium strings). I wish we could settle once and for all exactly how Collings joins their mandolin necks to their bodies. I wish they would put a diagram on their site. It certainly would put this to rest. Maybe they don't want to.:;): BTW, I'm addicted to this site. It is a pleasure to rub elbows (or modems) with so many like-minded afficionados. Thanks for all the great information. Cheers all.

Feb-22-2004, 11:33am
I have a Collings F coming in on a trade I will look. If my memory serves me correctly the A model mandolins have a bolt on while the F doesn't. I will check when it gets in. Also should be getting a Master in here in the next 2 weeks can't wait. I have had a drought on Master models. People just don't seem to want to give them up.

jcs271
Feb-22-2004, 12:39pm
Gentlemen,,that picture is for their GUITARS,,,the mandolins absolutely, positively without a DOUBT, have a dovetail neck. We went over this about 6 mos ago. Any doubts please e-mail Collings and they can set you straight. Just please don't confuse anybody else with unconfirmed info about these necks. (PS, don't mean to rant but I checked with Collings personally before I bought mine)

mike_c
Feb-22-2004, 1:34pm
to bowfinger---the collings mf-5 i bought was ,at that time, the first one i had seen...since then i have played 4 or 5..they all sound remarkably similar and consistent to mine..mine always seems to have more clairity and punch, but this is probably because i use GHS a-270 strings, and most collings mando owners use d'addario , since collings claims to tune the mando for the j-74 string.

Feb-22-2004, 7:58pm
jcs271... Don't know about yours but my Collings A had a bolt on neck? I took the endpin out and examined it. Sure enough a bolt.. As far as I remember the F I had didnt have a bolt though. Maybe they ment F mandolins?

If possible take the endpin out of yours and check.. Not trying to start something.They are a really great mandolin either way. I would just like to know if they started making the A style mandolins without a bolt now because mine sure did have one.

jim simpson
Feb-22-2004, 10:37pm
My Yellowstone has the "bolt" so did a Ratliff that I used to have. I would guess that glue is involved as well. Right?

jcs271
Feb-23-2004, 11:47am
Well Mav your observation sure puts a spin on things. Since I have access to an x-ray machine I think I'll just bring it in to work tomorrow (2-24) and take a little look. Unfortunately I don't still have the e-mail that I got from collings but I will resend my question to them.

Inquiring minds want to know!

Ken Sager
Feb-23-2004, 12:48pm
I'm looking through the endpin hole in my Collings A (#217) right now and there is absolutely no bolt.

Love to all,
Ken

Feb-23-2004, 1:30pm
Hmmm. Maybe it was just the early ones that did? Dunno??? that is strange. Anybody got any contact's at Collings? Or Bill if your out there. Let us know the scoop..

jcs271
Feb-23-2004, 1:51pm
I just got this reply back from Brian Smith at Collings.

"See if your buddy can unbolt his neck.
He won't be able to because there's not a single bolt there. Perhaps your friend has an early MT2 or MT1. What's the serial number of his mandolin? Bill put a screw in the first few mandolins. I wouldn't consider that a bolt. Are you sure he's looking at a Collings?"

Feb-23-2004, 2:50pm
Thats probably what I saw was the screw! I had a early MT2 can't remember the serial #..I was just going by my memory and sometimes it comes and goes. ha . I guess we finally know the story it was screws and not bolts on the first ones.. Thanks for getting scoop so we can finally put the mystery to rest http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

phred
Mar-02-2004, 9:30am
I purchased a Ratliff R5 Mandolin from First Quality Music last December and am very pleased with it. I've been searching the Cafe for other Ratliff posts, but haven't found anything. Any Ratliff owners care to share their thoughts on their mandolins?

MEP
Mar-04-2004, 12:03pm
I just purchased a pre-owned Collings MF5 and yes she is a sweet fast instrument. Troika's description of the race car was right on! Can't wait to do a little bit of personal set-up and a new set of J74's and then see how she runs. So far, I have just been too busy playing. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

feathers73
Mar-09-2004, 8:07am
After all the discussion, how would you compare the Gibson F-5L to the Collings? I'm trying to decide between the two. I definitely want a bluegrass sound.

Bradley
Mar-09-2004, 8:23am
If you want the Bluegrass sound then stay with Gibson.......No, I take that back..Thats what I would do.

Go where your heart and Ears lead you is my true advice,
and dont be in a hurry!! you'll know it when you play it,if happens to be either you'll have a great instrument and something to make you happy for many years

Happy Searching http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Bob DeVellis
Mar-09-2004, 9:11am
I A-B'd an F5L, F5G, and Collings and, with those particular instruments on that particular day, I felt that the Collings was the unmistakable winner. But I'm not a bluegrasser. The Collings was louder, clearer, mellower, and felt nicer in my hands. I bought that Collings and the only insrument I've played since that I've liked better was a Master Model I tried in Nashville. More recently, I A-B'd another Collings against a varnish Fern and, again, I'd give the edge to Collings. Maybe the most important point I have to make is that these things are subjective and, if possible, you should really get your hands on examples of what you're considering and see which comes closest to the sound you're after. By the way, these were all very nice mandolins. Even when there were what I consider clear differences, the lesser instrument in any comparison was still darn nice, in my judgment.

onlyagibsonisgoodenuff
Mar-17-2004, 12:48am
I happen to own a Collings F-5 and a Gibson Fern with a varnish finish. Recently our band has recorded 14 tracks for a new CD, and I used both mandolins randomly throughout the project. I can't really tell when I listen to the CD which is which. When I'm sitting around playing the mandolin unaccompanied, I like the warm tone of the Collings, however, when I'm on stage with the band the varnish finished Fern is the only mandolin I can hear well enough to suit me. So there you have it, everyone can stop worrying about which is best and go out and buy one of each. Then just find the appropriate situation for your collection. By the way, I also have a Lawrence Smart on order. Hmmm where should I play that one?