Serious Band Practice

[Michael H Geimer]

I guess this thread falls into the category of 'unsolicited advice', but I imagine our combined experience as a board might really help some new band that really wants to 'make it'.

I've played in many bands over the years. (Nowhere near as many as Mandodude, of course.) Some were productive - meeting our goals - while others fell far short, never really getting off the ground. I've always felt it was the manner in which rehearsals were conducted that played a key role in the each band's sucess or failure.

Here are some of the things we did in the 'good bands'.

- Three nights/week proved to be *significantly* more productive than one night a week. (It is my humble opinion that any band shooting to make records and/or tour needs to embrace this whole-heartedly. One night a week is 'fun' ... say no more.)

- Every practice had a simple written agenda. It was often just a hand written task list, but it gave focus to the evening, not only defining what songs we'd be working on, but also any 'house-keeping' issues related to gigs, photos, mailings, etc. Reviewing the agenda was the first item. The last item was setting the agenda for the next practice.

- A dry-erase board listed all the songs we knew, including a list of 'working material' that wasn't yet offically in the set. Songs were 'ear-marked' into short sets; one night we'd play just the (a) songs, next practice the (b) songs, etc. A separate calendar kept track of vacations, gigs, timelines for completing songs, or cut-off dates for submitting song ideas for the next recording project.

- 'Sectionals' were routinely scheduled. Sometimes it was just vocals, sometimes just rhythm section, sometimes just solos. Often one person's vacation would create the opportunity for a sectional practice.

- Homework. This was another habit that seemed to make a *huge* difference. Some parts are best worked out in isolation. We did not waste valuable group time helping just one person 'drill' a difficult part. It can sometimes be tough to assign someone a homework project, but it helped the overall forward progress of the group.

- No press kit was allowed to get older than 1-year. This meant writing and recording on a yearly schedule *as if* we were already on a label. So many months writing, so many months recording, then gigging, then lather, rinse, and repeat ad nauseum.

- No drinking. No drugs. (Do I need to add this?)

- Socialize! Every now and again it pays to just 'play hookie' and go out for pizza as friends.

OK ... those are my "7-habits", and they helped me get as far as the 'Indies'. There are plenty of 'working bands' around this board. What sort of habits do you guys and gals employ that help you succeed?

- Benignus

... who currently plays in a lazy, "unfamous", go nowhere string band that does not practice *any* of these habits ... but sure has a lot of fun!

[patsites]

Wow, if you could get any band on that type of schedule they'd get good and famous real quick.

I know several working bands that aren't even close to that organized and stay really busy.

I guess it all depends on how complicated you arrange songs, we just work on a couple of tunes until we're happy with them, then we just beat it to death. About once a month we try to play through every song we know and have arranged as a group, the rest of the time we just work on new tunes or re-arranging old ones. We are currently working out a Grisman tune (Japan) and it's taken about 3 weeks and 6-7 practices to get it down really good and fast.

I wouldn't call us lazy, but definately unfamouse. We'd like to do more but it's impossible to organize 5 people's schedules to do what we'd like to.

[mandofiddle]

- We rehearse 2 nights a week, plus gigs.

- No written agenda at rehearsals, though we do trade emails beforehand regarding what we all want to work on. That way we know what's coming.

- We have a Word file with our song list, and about 5 always on the "to do list" which is always rotating.

- We have a password protected backstage area of our website that has online calendars for every month up until summer 2005. I keep all our gig dates, and unavailable dates on there. I'm responsible for keeping it up to date. The band is responsible for sending me the updates via email. That way I can book a show on-the-spot with an entertainment mangager without having to double-check with everyone. We also have charts to all our tunes back here as well. We have a dedicated FTP site that only we have access to that we pass around mp3s on. I have a DAT recorder in our PA rig that I record every show on. I get them up in mp3 format so that we can listen to them separately and make notes on weaknesses that need addressed, and strengths that work.

- We have sectionals only when someone can't make a rehearsal. Otherwise we ALL work together on things. If it's a 3 part harmony, then the 4th person is responsible for listening and letting us know who is off, who needs to blend better, etc.

- Homework. We don't really assign homework, as we all have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done, and what we each individually need to work on. So far we haven't had problems doing it like this as we're all workers.

- Press kit. Here's our weakness. We've rotated members quite a bit lately, and don't currently have a new recording or photo. We just lost our bass player and auditioned a new one last night who will liely fill the void. Great player, but now we have to redo all that suff... again.

- At rehearsal and gigs, no drugs or drinking. What everyone does on their own time, or socializing time, is their own business.

- No egos. Here's a big one for us. It's our policy to be completely open with each other as to what works and what doesn't. Check your egos at the door, as if one of us has a comment about something not working, we'll bring it up. In order for the band to be as best as it possibly can, there has to be no ego, and no hesitation to be open on what's working and what's not. We all realize it's not personal, and for the good of the band.

- HAVE FUN. We all want to have fun as a group, and if something becomes un-fun, we address it and fix it.

[keymandoguy]

I just joined a new band (my first one) and we have only had one practice as a unit so far. I guess time will tell Our leader has had a bluegrass gospel band so Im hoping to learn a lot http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[JD Cowles]

let's see...

we practice feverishly the week of a gig.
our practices usually involve several pabsts a piece.
ain't got no recordin dee-vices.
no agendas.
homework regularly gets eaten by dogs.

Benignus-do you teach seminars? #you could go on the road and sell bluegrass band motivational seminars.
we sure could use one...
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mandopete]

#We just lost our bass player and auditioned a new one last night who will liely fill the void. #Great player, but now we have to redo all that suff... #again.
I'm thinking, Photoshop!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[mandofiddle]

#We just lost our bass player and auditioned a new one last night who will liely fill the void. #Great player, but now we have to redo all that suff... #again.
I'm thinking, Photoshop!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I'm thinking the same thing http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Michael H Geimer]

Mandofiddle ... I wanna play in *your* band! You sound very 'together'. Good luck with the personnel changes.

This all came up reading a Craigslist posting the other day. A young lady wanted to start a band, never been in a band before, but said she was serious and would "do whatever it takes" to make it.

She also casually dismissed music theory, claiming to not know or care what chords she played (but that they all sounded good), and how nothing really mattered except for "love of the music".

I didn't post back to CL, as that would just be a 'flame'. (I have no beef with her) But it occurred to me that many people share her misconceptions, and maybe aren't aware of the practical - (often non-musical) - effort that serious bands put into furthering their careers.

"For the love of the music", often means going above and beyond the music.

More!

[mandofiddle]

She also casually dismissed music theory, claiming to not know or care what chords she played (but that they all sounded good), and how nothing really mattered except for "love of the music".
Now THAT's hilarious... in a not-so-funny kinda way. For our bassist's audition last night, I sent him a live CD set from about a week and a half ago, and charts to all the tunes. Told him to pick a few to work on before he came in and we go over those, and anything else he wanted to try.

He said that was exactly what he was looking for in a band. A group who is that organized. And he did come in prepared, which was a kind of test as well. He mentioned going to other auditions in the last few weeks, with people giving him no charts or music ahead of time. Not even knowing the chords they were playing to songs, but saying "It goes like this", and then just playing a guitar lick. Quite funny.

Funny, as I just figured the better prepared he was on our material, the better idea we would get of what he can do on it, instead of having him come in "blind". And I know that if I went into an audition, I'd rather go into it knowing some of the tunes being played.

[solerydr]

Wow...I feel like a loser. We play more than we practice, and when we do practice more time is spent listening to our bass player jabber on endlessly than actual music playing.

[Michael H Geimer]

" Wow...I feel like a loser. We play more than we practice ... "

Hey, that's not being a loser! But, it won't help you reach tough goals, either. If your band is more like mine, and has easy goals or even no goals, then by all means 'play'.

[solerydr]

I guess thats true. Actually weve surpased all the goals we set and are having a hard time thinking up new ones. Granted, we didnt set high goals. Were in it just for fun.

[ChrisWallace]

I think that Benignus is hitting the nail right on the head...in a variety of different ways.

1.) If you really want to "make it" then you HAVE to realize that there's more to it than just the music. There's a whole other side that needs to be addressed if you want to get your music out to "the masses".

2.) BUT, if you're in a band to have some fun and play some gigs, there's certainly nothing wrong with playing more than practicing.

I've been in both types and it's all about what you're trying to get out of the experience.

Just my .02

[Adare_Steve]

- No drinking. No drugs. (Do I need to add this?)
Well, yes. I suppose you do. I live and play in Ireland. Saying 'no drink' to an Irish musician is like telling an artist he has to work without paint. I've known and know of many world-class players who can't perform without a pint of porter next to them. The same goes for Irish music audiences. I've run shows with top-class names performing that have sold only a few tickets because the venue was 'dry'. Other shows, that have been in bars or clubs with alcohol licenses have sold out - even though the perfromers may not be as talented.

Irish musicians, espeically the trad. ones, are often hugely talented but largely unrewarded, certainly financially. If they translated their talent to a 'rock' or 'pop music' arena, many of the guys I know in the local pubs would be filthy rich. So, the least they expect is a few quid in their pockets and several free drinks during the performance (or session).

That said, I can spend all night in a pub session with nothing but a glass of fizzy water next to me. But you'll find that I'm the exception that proves the rule!

Steve Power

[mandopete]

Hey, I used to be in a band called Serious Band Practice. #(sorry)

Very interesting thread. #I notice the emphasis here is on "working" bands. #These are, I assume, bands that are pursuing music as a profession. #But what about those of us who are doing this as a hobby?

For the most part I think these "habits" could well be applied. #Personally I find it difficult to get together more than once a week, but everything else is spot on! #I guess my primary emphasis would be on having fun and sounding good. #To that end I seem to be doing good on the former but not so well on the latter. #If I break it down to what needs to be dome to improve our sound I think these are elements that need attention. #Thanks for the advice!

[Michael H Geimer]

" But what about those of us who are doing this as a hobby? "

There just has to be a different level of 'buy in' among band memeber who really hope to join the marketplace. That's why I put mutiple practices up top of my list - YMMV. Trying to get 4 or 5 people to meet regularly several times a week is *very* difficult, but I think it will 'slingshot' a serious band forward.

I imagine an attempt to implement something like that in a casual band would lead to rebellion. I know, I'd get laughed at for sure!

What about booking gigs and finding representation? Anyone out there have good advice?

[davestem]

As far as booking gigs goes: in Oklahoma, there is an organization called the "Oklahoma Arts Council" that exists to promote the performing arts in the state. They have a list of "approved performers" that lists the minimum required pay, desired amenities (changing room, meal, etc.), and necessary sound support for each performer. If a festival organizer books one of the performers on the list, they have to pay as much or more than the minimum amount on the list, but they are eligible for a grant from the OAC to cover that minimum amount. So, a wonderful tip for getting good-paying gigs in Oklahoma is to get on the OAC list. This requires playing at (I believe) for OAC-sponsored events, and applying for OAC approval.
The point of all that is: do some research! Comb the internet and talk to people that organize festivals in your area to figure out how it works. Maybe your state has an Arts Council or something similar. I keep an excel file listing all the annual festivals that hire performers in my state, and all other venues of note in the area. I record who owns 'em, who books the bands, phone number, website address, bands that have played there recently, their preferred style of music, and how much we were paid each time we played there.
Even in Oklahoma, as long as you have a good promo packet & demo, and can operate a phone well, you could be booked at a festival every weekend from March to October if you wanted. (They might not all pay equally well, but...)
As far as finding representation goes, the guy we use as a manager is a retired cop who plays with a classic rock band. He loves to eat, knows every restaurant in this part of the state, likes to talk to people, and isn't afraid to haggle. Every time we say, "We're ready for a gig," he produces, and usually something that is (frankly) beyond what we deserve to be playing. So, for local representation, I recommend finding someone that is very honest, interested in your music, knows lots of people, and has some spine. Good luck...

[Tom C]

Quoted above " BUT, if you're in a band to have some fun and play some gigs, there's certainly nothing wrong with playing more than practicing."

The problem comes when one does not feel prepared, especially if you are getting paid for performing.

[ira]

goals and lifestyle play in. the key in the orig. posting was "band that wants to make it/tour"
as a duo of middle aged guys in it for the fun (though the coupla extra bucks don't hurt) with 9 kids between us (thank goodness 7 are his), each working 2 jobs, mortgages, and other hobbies (only 3 months to ski season- woohoo!), we do one practice each week (semi disciplined)toward our 2-3 gigs/month, and it is more than sufficient for what we are looking to do. we would love to play every night, just aint gonna work.

that being said, if you are looking to "make it" to any degree, benig's goals make alot of sense.

[Michael H Geimer]

Thanks Dave! Great advice.

[strumNgrin]

It is very difficult to have fun when you are in front of a paying crowd and you are embarassed by the music you are making. We only play 2 gigs a month and do this primarily to have fun; but to make it fun, we have an agenda for each of our once/week practices (2 hrs) and do assign homework. We are also brutally honest but respectful with each other. When we get on stage and sound like a well-oiled machine, and the crowd goes nuts....THAT IS FUN!

[Dan Adams]

Okay! I'll chime in. We are not a 'professional' band, more of the garage band variety. We did play 'out' nine times last year, and three times this year with about three more offers. Small parties, grand openings, two small festivals (the live recording at Bluegrass and Beyond CD is fun to listen to, even though we are really nervous), coffee shop, and the occasional dedication of something or another. We are all working professionals with demanding jobs, so our practice time is limited. If we are getting ready for a 'gig', we practice the set list, start to finish. All practices are recorded, then transfered to CD for review and comment. If somebody wants to bring a new song or tune to the table, a CD with the material comes to practice so we can all listen to the music. We practice with mics, and in the configuration of a stage set-up. All this being said, Rule Number One remains the same! Have fun! After all, our music is a hobby not our profession.

Now, where is that chord diagram... Dan

[mrbook]

We usually practice once a week, all that our members can spare from their work and families, but this summer, when we averaged 12 gigs per month, I'm not sure we practiced at all. Once or twice, perhaps, but the important thing is that we always arrive at a gig knowing our parts and ready to entertain. We don't have "attitude" in the sense that it is usually used today, but we approach a performance with the attitude that we are there to the job we were hired to do. We don't complain about the sound system or playing conditions, but let the promoter know that we will do what needs to be done. We come prepared to have a good time and make the best music we can.

In practice, we do a couple songs to get the feel of playing together, then work on new songs. Whoever brings the song has to know their part to teach the others, and they might have to provide sheets with lyrics and chords, or a recording to listen to so we can come up with our arrangement. We work out beginnings and endings, orders of breaks, and harmonies, but everyone is responsible for their own part and getting it ready. Every song isn't played the same way every time, but we are comfortable playing together - probably from years of practice. Some songs come together easily, others take weeks, and a few are shelved for the distant future. We also have a couple casual, low-paying gigs each month to try out new songs - practice all you want, it's always different in front of an audience.

The best music I've played is in bands where everyone gets along. It doesn't matter how well someone plays if you don't like being on stage with him. Put it behind you, work it out, or change it. We are all different people, but usually talk every day, and sometimes go to concerts together or do other things. No drugs and little drink; one guy thinks (due to the influence ofhis other band) that he needs a pre-show beer to "take the edge off," but we tease him about it and tell him we need that edge.

Are we successful? We're having a good time. Our only "goal" was to play music we liked the best we could and see where it takes us; we have been to three states, get most of our jobs from referrals, and the money is getting better than we thought it would be - but we're not quitting our day jobs. People ask and seem surprised that we are not "professional" musicians; I usually chuckle and say, "Hard to believe, isn't it?" with tongue firmly in cheek. We haven't made a recording yet, but it's a matter of attitude - on stage, we think of nothing but entertaining the audience, while in the studio we worry about notes that will last forever. We will get through that barrier. In the meantime, we are having fun - and take our music very seriously.

[MandoCowboy]

I'm curious how one handles band members who live some distance away from each other. Obviously it's easier if band meember live near each other, but how close is near and how far is too far.

[Fred_Murtz]

I was in a country band back in 1979-1982 (during the Urban Cowboy dance craze). #We practiced several times a week until we go to where we were playing gigs 5 or 6 nights a week.

We got the opportunity to open up for Emmy Lou Harris at the Paladium in Dallas. #We canceled all our gigs and for 5 weeks we practiced 5 nights a week/6 hours a night on 45 minutes of original music. #Man did we get tight.

The big gig came and when we showed up the head guy tells us they had trouble with the PA in Houston the night before and the crowd almost started a riot. #Soooo, they're using the channels we would have used for some of Emmy Lou's band - "just to be safe". #They got a stand up comic to open the concert. #Boy were we bummed. #All our friends and family had tickets and then we didn't get to play. #The only concilation was the concert review in the Dallas paper the next mentioned what had happened to us - that helped us prove we didn't make the whole thing up.

Significant practice. #Significant dissappointment.

[Michael H Geimer]

" ... we approach a performance with the attitude that we are there to the job we were hired to do. We don't complain about the sound system or playing conditions, but let the promoter know that we will do what needs to be done."
- mrbook

That's definitely 'attitude' ... Professional Attitude, that is. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Fred ... Ouch! What a bummer!

Folks, I'm off the Strawberry Festival for a week. See ya' after the long weekend!

[mrbook]

If you play for pay - or even just get up in front of people - you should do your job with no excuses. We (or I) also keep our web site and brochure up to date on an almost daily basis - I'm always disappointed to check a band's site for their next gig and find it is Nov. 18, 2002. It helps if you can update the site yourself (I do it right from my home computer) rather than waiting for your hosting company to make changes - if we get a new gig, it is usually on the site within hours.

[mandowilli]

We fall into the 4-6 gigs a month range, and like many have full time jobs and children etc. I agree that getting along is the #1 priority. We spend a good amount of our practice time, which is very little, chatting and having a few beers. We genuinely get along and it comes across to our audiences and they tell us so. Another thing we do is delegate the various tasks involved in group operation, and trust the other person to handle it. One does technical, one books gigs, another artwork, and one organizes lists and song selection. Also, everyone knows what to do on gig night and it all gets done with a smile.

You can practice the tunes 7 days a week, but if you have undercurrents and egos there is going to be something missing at your performances that money can't buy.

willi

http://www.onestreetover.net/pages/1/index.htm

[Jon Hall]

Our band practices at least once a week but when we have a gig we practice two or three times a week.

I believe that a band has to meet or exceed the expectations of the audience in order to be entertaining.
If they are expecting a smooth, professional performance, that's what you should try to deliver.

Our band believes it's better to do something simple well than to sloppily attempt something difficult.

[mandolinbill]

Hell I'd like to just be in a band!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[solerydr]

Hell I'd like to be in a band without emotionally imbalanced freeks!

[Romkey]

I feel your pain, Fred! We must have traveled in a parallel country-rock universe. Our big break was opening for the Oak Ridge Boys. The sound company had trouble with the PA, ran late, and we were allowed to perform all of one tune -- "Red Neck Mother." I didn't even get to play a break. I wanted to slit my wrists. Fortunately, we had better luck down the road with Vassar, Asleep at the Wheel, and some other decent players.

I think all of the above tips are useful. Sometimes we have a glass of wine or a beer to ease the work to practice transition, but anything more sends things downhill fast.

We only rehearse once a week, I'm sad to say, due to family and other commitments. Most of us play quite a bit on our own, though. I've been doing anything from 2 to 4 hours a night since the Symposium jazzed me. It's been a boost to the band playing, too.

[mrbook]

As long as band members play on their own every day, I think weekly practice is usually sufficient (unless, of course, this is your whole living). If you are practiced up, band rehearsals are for working out arrangements and getting comfortable playing together. If you play every song exactly the same note-for-note every time the endless practice may help, but even so, everything changes the minute you get on stage. We practice enough to be comfortable playing together, so we will be ready for whatever happens when we perform (anything from a broken string to the night where some guy started doing a wild interpretive dance to our music right in front of us). The talking and jokes are part of getting comfortable, too.