How many have changed their tuners and why?

[Rick Schmidlin]

How many of you have changed to different tuners and what made you do this?

[John Flynn]

I have a Parsons flat-top that had "economy tuners" on it and had some tuner issues, namely a couple of the tuners were really tight. It was not a nut issue. I upgraded to "Grover Sta-tites." What I learned in the upgrade was that it was actually more of a tuner fit issue. The new tuners had the same problems on the same strings. However, once I got the fit issue solved, they worked great and the Sta-tites are smoother tuners.

I also have a Troubadour OM that I got as my "beater" OM. It has an open headstock and it came with some of the worst tuners I have ever encountered. In this case, the problem was not the nut or the fit, just the tuners. I upgraded to German-made Rubner open headstock tuners and it made a big difference.

I have GDAE-tuned Irish Tenor Banjo that has friction tuners, which I really dislike. It will eventually get planetary tuners and I know that will make a big difference.

[Rob Gerety]

I haven't but I'd like better tuners in my Eastman - at least I think its the tuners, either that or the installation - some are very stiff. Tried clean and lube. No change.

[barney 59]

I changed my tuners on My A-0 long ago because they really needed them. I changed to Schallers that required no modification and were geared 24:1. It made a terrific improvement.

[ajm]

I changed the tuners on an Eastman 615 that I had for a while. It came with ones that turned the opposite way from normal. I kept turning the knobs the wrong dirrection when tuning. I found it hard to remember when switching between instruments, and it was worth then money for replacements to avoid the frustration.

[Mike Snyder]

Much as the esteemed Mr. Flynn, I had a tenor banjo with wonky tuners. Although they were planetary, they were also junk. Installed some Stu-Mac budget guitar tuners. As Mike Black would say; "Problem Solved". I've fought tuning problems on my F5G for ages, it seems, but it's always the nut. The Grovers will never be mistaken for Waverly products, but they work OK.

[mandroid]

Got a 3rd hand Mix A5 with Waverlys on it , a slapped on retrofit , one wouldn't turn at all .

Stew Mac offered to inspect and adjust them and even sent a call tag to pay for shipping.

While in their hands something broke, so they sent me a brand new set in a sealed box,

which I offered FS at list price on the classifieds here , and someone got a brand new set of silver

and ebony button tuners .

and I put on a more alignment tolerant set of 'Elites' .. they work fine, still got the black button

look, and a bit of extra coinage in my pocket..

[Scott Crabtree]

I also changed the tuners on my Eastman 615, I think a lot of the '06 versions of the 615 came with backwards tuners. Mine were super sticky and I also tried to lube them up (to no avail)...so I swapped them out for some new Grovers, while the new tuners are great...I came to find out that the holes were drilled completely out of 'true', the new tuner grommets don't seat flush...while this is not a mechanical problem, but a cosmetic issue and does not effect the instrument? The new tuners are like butter and they are at least turning in the correct direction...I really wish Eastman would swap out my mando, but after much hassle they would not...this was after I made the repairs, so I am partly to blame...reputation is everything however and I will look for something American made, and a company that stands by their product.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I don't know how many of us 'really' like the existing style of Mandolin tuners,except for the esthetics,but personally i think other than for the 'traditional look',they've been bettered in almost every respect by other styles of tuner on the market. My Guitar has the smoothest,silkiest set of Grover tuners you could wish for & they're not even close to the 'very' best around.
Personally,i wish a tuner company would come up with a similar tuner for Mandolin that had the trad.style tuner shanks & buttons,coupled with the smooth action of sealed tuner unit. The more i think about it,the more i've concluded that if i had a 'custom' made instrument,it would have to have a 'modernistic' look,that would accomodate Grover 'style' Guitar tuners. Traditional looks are ok,but where they let down 'ease of use' & 'functionality',something need to be done IMHO,
Ivan

[Soupy1957]

I've never preferred "open" tuners on any of my instruments, ...........just because I don't like the fact that the gears can get jammed up after a while, because of exposure to "stuff" and start loosing some of their smooth movement. (Sure, you can oil the gears, but it's kinda painstaking work to clean gears by hand). Maybe the question should be...........does someone have a really worthy method of cleaning open gears?
On the other hand, I've never changed any, (not that I haven't wanted to) that came that way, but it was only because I read a few threads in various forums in which the discussion about changing tuners was going on, and there always seemed to be a contributor to the thread who spoke of mismatched holes, and re-drilling and stuff like that. I'm not keen on the notion of re-drilling or whatever, on a finished instrument, (Obviously I am not a "builder"). It's one thing to cut a piece of raw wood, and make it INTO something............it's yet another to modify a finished instrument and protect the integrity of what I've already got.
That being said, would I like to have encased Grover or Gotoh tuners, say 18:1's, on my mando's .........absolutely!!
I guess it just boils down to .........if I want special tuners, either have it built with em (as you said) or be willing to fork out whatever money it would cost to take the instrument to your local repair shop and have THEM change em out.
Are the encased tuners (like the Gotoh or Grover versions) that are used on a guitar the same as the ones used on a mando? Dunno. Good question.
-Soupy1957

[Rob Gerety]

I've never preferred "open" tuners on any of my instruments, ...........
-Soupy1957

I thought this way too until I tried a set of Waverly tuners. Beautiful tuners. There are others of that quality as well. Now when I pick up a guitar with closed tuners it feels heavy on the headstock end and sort of clunky to me. I have owned them for years and years. Never needed cleaning or lubing yet. Of course one of these days I suppose I'll clean them - and it will be a simple task because they are open and everything is easy to get at. They will last several lifetimes.

[Soupy1957]

I looked at the Waverly's after you talked about em..........can you elaborate a bit more about what makes them so much better than another form of open tuner? I'm interested.
-Soupy1957

[lenf12]

My '56 F-12 came with a set of closed Kluson tuners. They made the mando very neck heavy and badly balanced. There's also a theory (that I don't necessarily subscribe to) that heavy tuners suck up some of the sound. I swapped out the Klusons for a set of open back Gotoh tuners that look more like the traditional tuners and I may have gained a few dB of volume in the process. If nothing else, the balance is much better and I like the look. You can be the judge.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[mandroid]

Given the enclosure on those Klusons is only sheetmetal, the additional weight is only a few grams,
on the other hand, diecast grover minis in a set of 8 would be significantly heavier.
which is why I have only seen them , diecast sealed type, used on long neck stuff like Irish Zouks,
or just a few of them on a 4 or 5 string electric.

Soup, tighter machine tolerances is the difference.
Prior posting is extensive on Waverlys, read up on archived threads..

[pager]

Only once on a guitar. I have a 1935 Gibson L7. The original Grover's were a tad sticky so I installed a new set of high end tuners. I am still not convinced the final result was worth the trouble and expense.

jillian

[tnranger]

At the suggestion of Lynn Dudenbostel, I put a set of Grover's recently introduced vintage tuners on my Collings MF5. They not only looked much better (shorter shafts), but worked MUCH better than the Gotoh's it came with. A great choice for those of us who can't afford Waverlys. Thanks for the suggestion Lynn!

[Mike Romkey]

I have a '21 A with tuners that are totally shot. Anybody have a recommendation? I was thinking Grovers. The Waverlys cost so much they must tune themselves! I don't mind spending a few bucks to get good quality, but $500 is way out there.

[mandroid]

The post to post spacing is resolved by cutting across the baseplate at the screwholes ,
but modern gears for snakehead tuner will turn the other way when put on paddle head headstocks as the under /over relation of worm and sun-gear thing is a second complication.

or another way to say : there are right hand cut gears and left hand cut gears so you need to find the best match or just turn the knob the other way..

[bonny]

The post to post spacing is resolved by cutting across the baseplate at the screwholes

Doh!
You sweat blood over a problem without any satisfaction and then someone points out a simple solution that's so painfully obvious......
If you wanted to get fancy you could even file the cut edges to the same contour of the leading factory edges.

[Ivan Kelsall]

A few weeks back,having 'fiddled about; with my Weber Fern to get the action down to match my Lebeda ( i raised it when it was new to give me a bit more volume),i decided to apply a bit of Frank Ford's wisdom & adjust the tuners for ease of action. FF maintains that the 'looser' the main gear screws are,the better the tuners work. So,having removed the strings & bridge & give the Mandolin a good clean,i put on new strings,positioned the bridge back in it's correct position & then i loosened the main gear screws so that they really were loose,without coming out. I tuned up
the G & D strings to below full pitch,but to a note that my tuner recognised,& as loose as the screws were,there was no 'slipping' at all. I then simply tightened the screws to give me a smooth
turning action & then did the same to the A & E strings. The result is, that having done the same to my Lebeda,both Mandolins' tuners work better,with more ease of tuning than they've ever done - & they don't slip. I have to say that as smooth as they are now,they're still not in the same league for 'ease' as my Guitar tuners,
Ivan ~:>
The pic.is courtesy of Mr Frank Ford's Frets.com site.

[barney 59]

I have a '21 A with tuners that are totally shot. Anybody have a recommendation? I was thinking Grovers. The Waverlys cost so much they must tune themselves! I don't mind spending a few bucks to get good quality, but $500 is way out there.


Actually there are tuners that tune themselves.. They are an option on a Les Paul--maybe mandolins will follow.

[Soupy1957]

During my last visit to a GC in my area, I didn't do what I usually do, and that's "avoid the electric guitars."

Yes, I spent a specific and typical amount of time looking over and playing the current acoustic stock, but on the way out, since I was with a guy who was also a big "electric guitar" enthusiast, I wandered into the aisles of electrics.

There was a young fella of about 15 or so, sitting on one of the padded benches, playing fairly good basic rock-n-roll, near a guitar I was curious about. The guitar had these big bulky box-like pieces attached behind each tuner. (Wondered when I was going to bring up "tuners" eh?).

So I picked up the guitar to look at it, and slug the attached strap over my head, and began to try to manually tune the instrument. What I discovered was that only the Low E string would move, ..........the rest of the strings tuners were basically immovable. After a few minutes of this, trying to figure out why I couldn't do any tuning with it, the youngster sitting there said it was a "self-tuning guitar." When I asked him to explain, he stated that it doesn't need me to adjust the tuners.

I put it down, and walked away, still curious, but no enough to want to know more. If nothing else, the head of the instrument was quite heavy with those boxy things on it, and it didn't appeal to my eye whatsoever.

So my point is, that barney59 is correct, self-tuning tuners are out there. Personally, I'd rather do it myself, thank you.

-Soupy1957

[Ivan Kelsall]

I very often think that we get stuck in certain ruts re.what's acceptable & what's not. If we were hard-nosed,dyed-in-the-wool 'purists',we'd be up in arms raving about Hans Brentrups' incredible but 'away from the usual' creations, as well as other maker's instruments. If we can take on board
differences such as that,it's only going to take one brave maker to fit a set of good 'modern, non-trad.'style tuners & for them to be superbly functional & i think that others would eventually follow
(for non-trad.style Mandolins anyway). Personally,i think that Hans Brentrup's "Stealth" model Mandolin would absolutely suit a set of ''Mini-grovers'' & would look superb with them on,especially with black tuner buttons.Yes,there would be a bit of additional weight,but not to such an extent that it would be detrimental,but the functionallity of the tuners would be excellent,
Ivan:cool:

[fenderbender]

Can anyone tell me the value of some old Waverly tuners I have. They say at the peg side "Product and Process Patents Applied For" and on the other side "Waverly Musical Products Co. Inc. New York" They came off a late teens F-4, don't know if they were original or not. Many thanks

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u280/Fenderbender_photos/P1030111.jpg

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u280/Fenderbender_photos/P1030110.jpg

sorry about the enormity!

[fenderbender]

I now have hi-rez pix of these, they will go on eBay next week, if anyone is interested in them call me, maybe we can work something else out

[JeffD]

I have all original tuners on all my instruments and I have never had to do anything to them and they all work and they all sound great and I have never had a problem with them. The oldest tuners are acting a little old, but they stay in tune once tuned.

[fenderbender]

These tuners are now on eBay. Thank you!

[Dave Greenspoon]

I had the stock Rigel A Nat tuners changed out and replaced them with Rigel's Schallers for the obvious reasons: better functionality. The stock set wasn't bad, but they certainly weren't as good as the upgrade.

I was in a local shop last week that mostly deals in guitars. I was slightly envious of the locking tuners I saw on an Eastwood (or was it a P&L?) that the store owner had put on. I would love something like that to replace the mini-Grovers on my Jerman.

[Luke C]

I recently "tuned up" the schaller tuners on my Eastman. I removed them, thoroughly cleaned and spun them slowly with an electric screw driver for a while. I then loosened up the screws on the gears, cleaned them again and lubed them using a dry, powder form of graphite lube (I can't recall the brand name right now). I tightened them back up, (but not too tight) and reinstalled them with a bit of the lube in the bushings as well. The difference was amazing. I strongly recommend trying this beafore shelling out the bucks for a new set!

[jim simpson]

I once had a really nice old KM1000 Kentucky mandolin. The first thing I changed on it was the tuners. The originals just were not very good. The upgrade made it just right. I've been happy with the gears on all the mandolins that followed that one.

[mandroid]

I did have to turn off the Alessi website and mop up the Drool. they look like engraver's high art.
:crying:

:popcorn:

[Brad Little]

Somebody mentioned the added weight of enclosed tuners. I can attest to that. I changed the open back six in line Klusons on my old Guild 12 with mini-Schallers, probably about the same size as mandolin tuners would be, and the added weight was considerable. I had to move the strap from the body to the headstock in order to more easily keep it in playing position.
Brad

[mandozilla]

Today I installed a set of Waverly tuning machines and a James Tailpiece on my mandolin. I really, really, love my mandolin. I have NO MAS. My Kettler is a keeper. So I decided to upgrade the hardware.

Now it has a Cumberland Acoustics bridge, a James Tailpiece, a pearl nut, an inlaid Doug Edwards arm rest, and waverly tuners. Oh and a 12 button rattlesnake rattle. :grin: I guess the only thing I'll add, and try out, is a Toneguard.

The James tailpiece is a thing of beauty, I had it engraved with the name of the brand of my mandolin...Kettler. And it's true what they say, it does indeed make string changing rather easy.

The Waverlies...Geez! Once the darn thing was tuned up, I played all afternoon and didn't re-tune once! I kid you not. And the tuners turn effortlessly. ;)

I had a lot of fear and trepidation :crying: about installing the new tuners myself because of all the dire warnings about proper fit and so forth. Not that I some great luthier, I'm not a luthier at all...yet...but the bushings fit with only a firm, but gentle, press and the tuning posts dropped right in. After screwing them down and stringing her up, tuning was effortless.

I think it's a testimonial the skill and care that Everett Kettler put into the construction of this mandolin...too bad he's still not making them.

Oh yeah, I really love the ivoroid buttons...I've always had MOP but they are a little too whorey (is that a word?) for my taste...no offense to those fans of MOP buttons.

~o):mandosmiley:

[Steve G]

I changed the tuners on my custom F5 about six months ago because an A string kept slipping out of tune. At the suggestion of Ken Cartwright I went with Grover Deluxe. I'm a happy camper.

[mandozilla]

Yeah I had a helluva time with the bottom A..the tuners, I think they were Grovers, were 28 years old and were very hard to operate...man I love these Waverly's! Staying in tune is a new experience for me and I'm loving it! :grin:

~o):mandosmiley:

[Ivan Kelsall]

Maybe i'm just lucky,but i've never had any problems with staying in tune with any of the instruments i've owned.I do get the occassional one that is out of tune after couple of hours playing,but that's only natural. I certainly don't suffer from strings slipping all the time,& since i did the Frank Ford treatment on them,they're as smooth as this type of tuner can be. My tuners as far as i know, on both the Weber "Fern" & the Lebeda,are Schallers.
I've thought about what i said in my first post on this,why tuner manufacturers haven't come up with a really good 'modern' style tuner for Mandolin. Maybe we're so stuck in a 'traditional' rut,that they simply can't be bothered.
There have been so many threads / posts on here re.strings slipping,out of tune problems binding gears etc.,that i can only conclude that our current tuners leave a lot to be desired re.their functionality. If we're unwilling to change,then we must accept the fact that we get what we deserve,for good or bad,
Ivan~:>

[Red Henry]

That leads to a good story. When I acquired it in 1971, Randy Wood #1 was equipped with some 'teens nickel Gibson F-model tuners (the ancient "reversed" type) -- they must have been removed from some old F-2 or F-4 because somebody thought they were worn-out. I soon found another set nearly like them but gold-plated, to have spares.

After a while I was having trouble with the tuners on that mandolin, so I switched them out for the spare set. A few more years and the second set was giving trouble too, so I switched the original tuners back in. A few more years, and... you get the picture.

After a while I stopped going back and forth, so for 25+ years I've continued using the same old tuners. They do great-- they're smooth and fast. Any tuning irregularity usually has to do with the nut, which I should have realized to begin with, but as a newbie picker in 1971, didn't know!

Red

[Red Henry]

Somebody mentioned the added weight of enclosed tuners. I can attest to that. I changed the open back six in line Klusons on my old Guild 12 with mini-Schallers, probably about the same size as mandolin tuners would be, and the added weight was considerable.
Brad


Right, Klusons were really heavy. Randy Wood #3 had original Klusons on it when I got it, and they were extremely hard to turn. I changed to Schallers, to be able to customize the shaft-lengths (necessary because of how the Klusons had been mounted). When I had all the tuners off and had a chance to weigh them, it was pretty dramatic-- the two Kluson tuner strips weighed as much as THREE of Schaller strips! -- 50% again as heavy.

(And RW#3 definitely gained in response with the new, lighter tuners on it.)


Red

[Salty Dog]

I changed mine for a simple reason. When I first ordered BRW #61, I asked for Gibson Grovers with pearl buttons. During the build process, Ben Wilcox informed me that Gibson was no longer providing Gibson parts to private builders. About a year after I received #61, an ad appeared on the Classifieds for a set of Gibson Grovers (Gold) with pearl buttons. They were removed from a Fern to be replaced with a set of used Waverlys, and I bought them. This completed the cycle and gave me the mandolin I originally ordered. Life's fulfillments work in mysterious ways - when was the last time you saw a set of gold Gibson Grovers with pearl buttons offered for sale? I just wish the buttons were a tiny bit larger but they sure are nice looking.