How long does it take?

[NotJethro]

This is my first post here, and I'm not sure if protocol says I'm supposed to bring coffee and donuts. Forgive me if I'm being rude by coming empty handed.

Anyway, I'm the proud new owner of an Eastman 515 (lefty) that came up all the way from Arizona to live with me in Canada. This is day 6 for me, and this thing is probably the most fun I've ever had this side of the law. I guess like most people who pick up mandolin, I already play guitar and want to get into something different. And different it is. Playing cleanly is much harder than I expected, but I'm definitely seeing some improvement. I've got my hand in at least a dozen tunes (the usual suspects like arkansas traveller and sailer's hornpipe), and I've committed most to memory. I sure don't know if I can keep up the pace, but I'm really motivated to start off with a decent repertoire. My somewhat naive observation is that on one level one can pick up mandolin very quickly, but take years to even attempt to master.

So my question, to those who have been in the same boat I'm in right now, how long did it take before you could say to yourself "I can actually play this thing". Are we talking months, or years? What was the moment for you? Was it playing well in a jam, or playing your first complex piece at speed, or some other moment? Realizing that everyone learns at a different pace, I'm curious about other experiences with this.

Thanks for reading.

[Mattg]

depends on your standards. But, days, weeks for basic stuff. But, happily, you can spend a lifetime learning new stuff.

My smart alec 15 year old, guitar playing son picked up a mando at a jam the other day and was doing basic chords and licks at the end of the evening. Looks at me and says "now I know why you play this, it's silly easy".

have fun!!!!!!

[dulcillini]

So far, I have been playing about 18 months and I think I am getting it. I came from a mountain dulcimer background, which I still play frequently. One wierd thing that happened was that my mountain dulcimer playing actually improved when I took up mandolin. Go figure ? The instruments are not similar at all.

I don't know what it is about acoustic instruments, but once you get the bug, you just seem to want to try others. Many mountain dulcimer players I know started out on guitar or banjo. I tried guitar a couple of times but never could hold it and fret at the same time. Also too many strings to keep track of. Mandolin was different--I was able to hold it and fret some notes right away which gave me the feedback I needed to keep learning.

I also own a mandola that I love--only has a few more notes than the mandolin but the strings are longer and the soundbox deeper-giving a terrific sound--kind of soothing and haunting at the same time.

I had a banjimer (mountain dulcimer with banjo head and bridge) which was a lot of fun. It was set up just like a mountain dulcimer and sounded like a banjo. My dog absolutely hated it and tried twice to take a bite out of the headstock ! The same dog lies at my feet and enjoys the dulcimer, mandolin, and mandola. I don't know what freaked him out about the banjo sound, but it certainly did. I couldn't even get it out of the case before he started barking. Finally sold it to some one who is enjoying it !

The next time I am able to get to Elderly, I want to test drive a tenor guitar (4 string). I might be able to handle that as it is set up just like a octave mandolin. They have the Breedlove tenors and I have heard good things about them. I am sure my dog will approve.

See what I mean about the acoustic instrument cravings !

Mike

[instrumentality]

Hello and welcome! Coming from the guitar, and from what you already describe, I'd bet you'll be playing competently in a few weeks. What strikes me, being about two months into the mandolin and also coming from another instrument (fiddle), is the fact that after that you have to put in more time and effort to get better.

It's easy to pick it up, already knowing another instrument with the same tuning, and be able to pick tunes and learn basic chords, but I'd imagine true facility takes longer - it took me about 3 years on the fiddle, I'm expecting some of the same for mandolin, because a lot of it doesn't transfer.

But the nice thing about it is that you can have more fun in the process, being able to get to a baseline competency almost right away!

[kickapooviking]

I've been playing mando for about 9 years now. Didn't start until age 50, so I'll never now how good I would have been had I started as a kid. I have a wonderful Gibson A2 1922 and play mostly Celtic, and a bit of Scandi and Old Time. I would say, #1 rule: find others to play with at least once a week. When I play alone too much, I get bored and lose my touch. Also, keep up the guitar and try out an octave mando. Variety is the spice of life...

[mrbook]

It depends on what you want to do. I've been playing 35 years, give or take a year or two. There are still things I can't do, but on the other hand, people ask me to play mandolin with them, and sometimes on the street I meet people who say, "Say, aren't you the mandolin player...?" I must be doing something right, but I also think more about the pieces I'm working on. Or better yet, I don't think about it much at all - I just play and have a good time.

[Dave Wrede]

Welcome NotJethro!
i come from a guitar background too and still play fairly frequently. i've owned a mandolin for about 15 years but didn't really start getting into serious playing until about 5 years ago. i knew a few tunes and chords and could chop along on most anything. i don't know why but the bug bit me and now i own four of 'em and love 'em all. You can be competent on one in short order, but there's always something else or something new to try that'll stretch Your fingers and mind. i'm so much better now that i don't play guitar too much anymore unless it's one of those E or A flat things that i just can't wrap my brain around too easily.
i realized that i could really play about a year ago when this group i'm with brought out something in E flat and i couldn't change to guitar quick enough. Being "stuck" playing mando forced me to at least try the piece and i got through it, though it still isn't my favored key.
Welcome again and keep playing.

[Laird]

Another 515 owner here.

It's all about how you define terms like "good" or "competent," I suppose. I still think of myself as a beginner after three years (compared to where I hope to see myself eventually), but I've been playing in a couple bands for two of those years--mostly strumming, taking occasional leads, adding a little fill between verses. If I lived in an area where there were more accomplished players to fill my slots in the bands, I wouldn't be playing out, but it's really rural around here, so I get a shot. Lucky me!

I guess I think of myself as "just barely good enough to play with a couple bands that don't get a lot of gigs." But I love playing, and non-players often seem impressed with the old fiddle tunes that constitute 90% of my regular practice routine. (I'm currently working on slowing them down enough to add inflection to each note.) My bluegrass bandmates seem happy enough to get a steady chop and some harmonies from me, and are always willing to offer me an instrumental--and they're supportive when they see progress. I guess I'm in an ideal environment for growth at the advanced-beginner level.

Bottom line, I guess, is "good" can be keeping a rhythm with three chords when you're starting out, playing with guitar friends in a living room. That's also a wonderful safe space to take chances, and that's always where the growth comes for me.

Have fun, and welcome!

[OldSausage]

Ten years.

Anything worth doing takes about 10 years of constant application to learn do it well.

[Flowerpot]

Ten years? That's kind of pessimistic is my book.

I've heard it takes about 1000 hours of practice to get fairly well proficient at anything. An hour a day, that takes about 3 years. That's been my experience -- mandolin or guitar, 3 years of dedicated practice will get a person 80% of however good they'll eventually get in 20 years of practice. Fiddle, it's a longer learning curve, like 6 years or so. YMMV.

[San Rafael]

Years.

[Rick Schmidlin]

3 yrs three hours a day

[Ivan Kelsall]

Not being a natural 'pick' user,it took me a while just be hold onto the darned thing for more than a minute or so at first - that was the first hurdle i had to clear.It took a few months but i got there
in the end.Then it was down to just figuring out where the notes were. I've got hundreds of tunes in my mental library through playing Banjo for over 40 years,so they were the first ones i tried.
Of course,after only 3 1/2 years of playing there's still a colossal amount that i can't do on Mandolin - but - i now know where all the 'sounds' i want are & i know many 'patterns' of notes.I wouldn't call them true 'scales' as such,more 'runs' of notes. I can now listen to a tune & pretty much figure out where all the notes are on the fingerboard,much the same way as i tought myself on the Banjo. If a tune that's 'new to me' is relatively simple,i'm in with a good chance that i'll pick it up pretty quickly,then it's just a matter of ironing out the lumps. So,for me,i'd say it's taken 3 1/2years to get to 'first base',
Ivan~:>

[Soupy1957]

-The first time I held a mandolin in my hands, I didn't know spit about it.
-The second time, was at home after I bought it.
-When I looked up the Mandolin Café that afternoon for help, someone showed me
a two-fingered chord.
-It was at that moment that I thought, "Hey! I can play this thing!!"

[NotJethro]

Thanks, guys. The responses actually confirmed my own feelings. This is going to be a life long process. Maybe less, if I can somehow get my pinky to grow another half inch. It's very early in the game for me, but I'm very encouraged so far. Incidentally, I wonder how long I go before MAS sets in and I "need" a higher end mandolin? But that's a whole other thread...

[Ivan Kelsall]

Interesting that you mention your little 'pinky' finger.Some Mandolin players seem to have a problem using it,i think it comes with practice. However, any of us that have played a much longer scale instrument such as Guitar or Banjo,well there's no easy way to do it anyway,but much less if you don't use your little finger,
Ivan

[OldSausage]

It takes approximately 6 months before you start to want a better mandolin. After 9 months you will find you've purchased one somehow, even if you didn't have the money.

[Paul Cowham]

Probably depends on how naturally gifted you are and what your definition of being able to play is..
I think that there is always some stuff that you would always like to do better, but I suppose as long as you are happy with where you are at that's all that matters. I think the worst thing is when you can't feel yourself improving but if you can tell you are improving then all is good!

:mandosmiley:

[Rhinestone]

I came to mando after about 40 years on guitar and pedal steel. I found the mandolin to be really easy to get my mind around and easy to play anything I could hear once I got some chordal and scalar instincts under my fingers. But just like everyone says,if you practice a lot - and I mean a lot, already play another stringed instrument, you could be pretty good in about 3 to 5 years. Most of that is developing a repitoire and keeping it sharp. At about the 6 year mark I felt I could safely say to a real mandolin player with a straight face: "Yeah, I'm a mandolin player"

To speed up the process,you might wanna develop an obsessive compulsive disorder. All steel players have that. It's compulsory you might say.

Just remember - that thing ain't gonna play itself.

[Tim2723]

At first it goes pretty slow, so the first week feels like six weeks. Then the second week feels like only a week. The third through eighth weeks feel like only two weeks and six days. But then you hit a slump where the ninth week feels like two months. After that the next year feels like seven months and twelve days plus three hours. I have the math written down if you want it.

Welcome to the fun!!

[Jill McAuley]

It takes approximately 6 months before you start to want a better mandolin. After 9 months you will find you've purchased one somehow, even if you didn't have the money.

Never a truer word was spoken sir!

Cheers,
Jill

[Mike Bunting]

Don't worry, there is no time limit.

[amowry]

It's been about 25 years for me, and I don't think I'll ever be good at it ;)

[jimbob]

FOREVER !!!!

My mandolin teacher actually told me a couple of weeks ago that I can now consider myself a Mandolin Player ! I was amazed ! I've been taking lessons from him for about 1 1/2 years. I still feel like such a rookie, but now am at least learning some new stuff besides fiddle tunes.
The answer to the question depends on many things including talent, time and effort commitment, and expectations. I would think most reasonably talented folks can learn to play along with othe folks within a year or so....if they parctice !:grin:

[300win]

I don't know there are probably quite a few of you who'll disagree with this, but I don't think anyone ever "masters" a instrument. Ok don't get in a uproar. What I mean by this is for example, Thile, Marshall, Bush, all the classical players that some of you know about, yes they are "AWESOME", and yes they know where they're at on the fretboard at all times, but still I bet they still learn something every now and then, and come to think of it should'nt we all ? I've always thought if I lived to be 100, and could still play, there is/will be alot more I don't know than what I've learned already, not counting the stuff I will have forgotten by then. All of us are differant in what we like to play, and what we want to be able to play, some are going to progress faster than others, so in my opinion there is no set "time" on getting better. In my case I know more now about playing than I did when I was 20, but am I a better mandolin player ?, I know I'm not as fast as I was back then so does that make me worse than I was ? This is a question I don't believe there are any definite answers to.

[kristallyn]

I started the end of may, have been playing guitar for some years
I can t say I master the instrument , My guess is , that ll take years, but I must say I am able to actually play songs with my band, and am pretty confident to play them at gigs too
those are not virtuoso pieces of music, but I play the riffs or solo s and fill ins in songs like
shiny happy people
loosing my religion
old man( neil young)
the worst( rolling stones)
something stupid( frank sinatra)
black soul choir ( sixteen horse power)
across the borderline ( the willy deville version)
the river ( bruce springsteen)

*actually a banjo riff on some songs but I translated those to my mandolin

I think, because I practise the scales and play a lot of tunes to pick up some fingerspeed etc, and have learned some crosspicking patterns, I am able to actually hear the song and sort of improvise and play along with it while my band plays it..than I just play it all week, watch youtube video s of the songs and play to those, untill I can easily play the song and am able to also still improvise when I miss a note..

I think that is pretty fast learning. determination is the keyword I guess

[Laird]

I don't know there are probably quite a few of you who'll disagree with this, but I don't think anyone ever "masters" a instrument.

I think it's true what you say, that even the best players continue to learn new possibilities till the day they die. But my definition of "mastering" an instrument is a little different: I think of it as being able to play what's in your head without thinking about what your hands are doing, even if you've never played that particular music before. Your hands know exactly where to go without your brain having to explain, "Okay, reach on up with that pinky to the ninth fret now!"

Of course, even as I write that, I think of characteristics of mastery that might be left out of my definition.

[JeffD]

So my question, to those who have been in the same boat I'm in right now, how long did it take before you could say to yourself "I can actually play this thing"..

I'll let you know when it happens. :))


I go through stages - with each new tune or technique I work at I feel like a complete incompetent. Once I get half way good at a particular tune, or technique, I feel great, till I try and do it in public. Eventually, the things I have got down I feel good about, but there is always a universe of stuff that I am just stumbling at.

I don't think I will ever feel like I can play the thing - my realistic goal is to be stumbling at ever higher and more sophisticated levels.

[GTG]

I remember being a kid and skiing with a couple of pals. One of them had just started the year before - he was a confident, athletic guy who wasn't scared of much. He was a tad sloppy but would pretty much ski anything, and usually stayed on his feet, except when he fell. He was great to ski with - lots of fun.

Another friend had always been physically awkward. He was nerdy, smart, and nice, with a good sense of humour. No one would ever call him athletic. He had been skiing for about 4 years, and unfortunately still looked like a rank beginner. He was slow and extremely tentative, nervously over-exaggerating his motions to start his turns. He was a friend, but, well, he was a lousy skier and not fun to ski with.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this analogy, except that I don't think time measures much in terms of progress. Kids will sometime pick up an instrument and be technically better players within a year than folks who have been battling it out for decades. I think it depends on if you're good at learning to begin with, and then if you put in the time to practice, have focused and useful practice time, a good blend of solo drills and jam/performance experience, a good ear, etc.

Some people seem to be able to go up on stage and make it through a performance after only playing for a few months - but then some performers can fake it pretty well, especially if their main talents are something else like singing or songwriting. And then it depends what your goals are. You want to be the next Thile? Sorry - too late (you had to start at 5 years old or something, and grow up in a very musical family, etc.). You want to be able to play confidently in a jam at some point? Ok, now we're talking (but of course it depends on the jam...). Keep practicing for a year, trying to absorb everything you can in the meantime, and see if you're happy after that point.

[OldSausage]

I would say, though, that in the music world talent can easily be overrated, and that the music profession is not necessarily filled with the people who had the most talent to start with, but rather with the people who, for whatever reason, did not give up. I also think that talent tends to even out over the long haul. I would say that Thile is not a good example because he's exceptional even among professional musicians. I really believe that most people can be excellent pickers if they devote a huge amount of time and energy to it, the same way you would if it were your job.

[Gerard Dick]

Talent. I've often been accused of having that, by those who might like to play but are unwilling to put in the necessary time. Like Edison's definition of genius it consists of a little inspiration and a lot of perspiration. Dont get me wrong I'm still near the bottom of the food chain but I am getting better all the time.

[robertson]

Get a good teacher, if possible. Chords and scales... have fun!!
Sometimes tenacity is as helpfull as talent:)

[Chris Rogers]

When I started a year ago, I read some quote that said "Don't worry, the first 30 years is hard, but then it gets easier". Glad I didn't fall for that. After two festivals in the last couple of weeks, fellow jammers are commenting on my playing and are surprised that I have only been at it a year. I'm under no illusions about all the improvement that I still need to make, but I certainly consider myself "a mandolin player". I say this only to make the point that you can make a lot of headway in a short period of time and have a lot of fun along the way.

[Denny Gies]

There is a direct correlation between how much time you put into practice and how quickly you develop your skills.

[JeffD]

It takes approximately 6 months before you start to want a better mandolin. After 9 months you will find you've purchased one somehow, even if you didn't have the money.

:))

[Brad Little]

I got my first mandolin last Friday, after almost 50 years of playing guitar (mostly rhythm on steel string and classical on nylon). By Saturday I was able to participate in our monthly folk jam and not feel embarrassed by my playing. Of course, it helped that when one of our members played his banjo he stuck to "G", "C" and "D", and that I figured out that if you imagined it as a guitar strung backwards, some other chords were easy to figure out. Of course, after looking at a chord chart, I discovered there were easier fingerings just for mandolin. I've yet to attack melody playing, but have dug out some of my fiddle tune books.
I agree with the 1000 hour idea as a good time frame for really learning to play (or anything else for that matter). Another good time frame is that (supposedly) if you do something every day for 30 days it becomes a habit, so make a point of playing every day, even if only for a few minutes. Myself, I get restless if it's 10 PM or so and I haven't played my guitar (or now mandolin).
Brad