What happens to OLD mandolins?

[Soupy1957]

We've seen pictures of Bill Monroe's axe, and pictures of many older Lloyd Loar signed axes from years ago........but I got wondering.......what happens to the old mandolins? What breaks down, what separates, what bends and wharps....how do old mandolins degrade?

I guess what I'm wondering is "when is an old mandolin not worth fixing, and is better served as a wall ornament?"

[jim_n_virginia]

I have never in my life seen a mandolin (or a guitar, fiddle, etc.) broken in the trash in my life.

Every instrument I have ever had was either sold, stolen, lost, traded or broken by a enraged lover (but thats another story! LOL).

I would suppose that an old junker instrument would be handled just like a junk car. Stripped for parts if they are worth anything and then crushed.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Considering the great age of many of the well known 'classical' Violins ie, Strads,Guanerius etc.,
i can't think of a good reason why a well made Mandolin shouldn't last that long with good care taken of it.We already have quite a number of '20's era Loars & others that are still up & playing.There's no reason to believe that they shouldn't be doing the same thing a 100 years from now,again,provided that they are well cared for. Personally,i'm more concerned about how i'm going to break down,bend,warp & separate than i am about the wellfare of my mandolin - i KNOW it's well cared for at the moment,'cos it's me that's doing it ! ,
Ivan :))

[MikeEdgerton]

Search eBay long enough for mandolin, guitar, banjo, etc "projects" and you'll see what happens to them. Many times the tailpiece, tuners, and case are worth more than what is left of the mandolin. We're not just talking old Gibsons here. Many musical instruments were left in attics (the place where all items that were no longer needed were stored) and they succumbed to the heat under string pressure problem and simply came apart. Hide glue was the glue of choice and heat and humidity have a way of softening them up. In years past I've reassembled several guitars that were simply in pieces. I've also done my share of selling off the parts of instruments that had gone too far into the process. If you're going to hang it on the wall of a restaurant does it really need the tuners, the tailpiece or the bridge? Not really. The cases usually smelled bad and got tossed as well. That's what makes an old mandolin that you find in great shape so unusual. It didn't end up in an attic, or a wet basement, or an unheated garage or shed. It managed to survive 70 years or so without being subjected to temperature expremes or moisture.

[JEStanek]

They just fade away... Necks can twist, glue joints can separate due to humidity slides, Tuners can rust up, tops can crack. All of these problems can be fixed depending upon your desire and your budget. Look at the work Jake Wildwood has done restoring old bowl and flat tops in the post a pic section. Charlie Derrington repieced the splinters of two mandolins back together for Bill Monroe.

Sometimes though, it's more cost effective just to let an old mandolin go. That's up to you to decide. I've traded a project Stradolin mandolin for a playable bowlback and been very pleased with the results.

Jamie

[Steve Ostrander]

I second what Mike said. Attics and basements are the worst places to store musical instruments and photographs, but that's where they usually end up when they are no longer used.

Aside from the heat damage, which Mike described, basements are damp, moldy, and prone to flooding, all of which can damage or destroy an instrumnets. Ever open a case and get overcome by mold and mildew? And you thought the case lining was green velvet...

[allenhopkins]

Any stringed instrument that's kept at or near pitch, is handling a great deal of string tension -- hundreds of pounds, in some cases. Add to this the inherent flexibility of wood, and the susceptibility of glue to extremes of temperature and humidity, and you have a balance that can be impaired by improper storage over an extended period of time. Instruments of the zither family, where there are dozens of strings stretched over a fairly lightly braced top, often show waviness as the string tension compresses the top wood. Or else, one or the other of the string anchor sites lets go; the rotation of Autoharp pin blocks is pretty endemic, in my experience.

The tension of mandolin strings is borne by the neck and top, and since mahogany, the most common neck wood, gets pretty flexible at high temperatures, you often see neck warpage on attic-stored instruments. Top sinkage is another common problem. Certain types of instruments -- National resonator guitars come to mind -- have endemic problems with neck warps, largely because National Co. in the '30's wasn't particularly scrupulous about using well-seasoned maple for their guitar necks.

The main problems I've seen on old mandolins were tops sinking, especially on Gibson carved-tops and some bowl-backs, and neck joints loosening up and the necks pulling forward. It's better, IMHO, if a tailpiece lets go, since wood damage is less and tailpieces can always be reattached or replaced (as long as there's not much tearing of the wood).

Rapid temperature changes, as well as affecting the structural integrity of the instrument, can also do a job on finishes, as the wood, and the finish covering it, may expand or contract at different rates, causing the ubiquitous "checking" or "alligatoring" you find on so many older instruments.

So Soupy, if you're planning to put away your collection for posterity, I'd slacken the string tension somewhat (not take it off completely, 'cause then the neck can warp backwards with no string pull), put the instruments in good cases, and store them in a place that would be comfortable for human occupancy in any season. Then someone in the 22nd century can enjoy that The Loar 600...

[Soupy1957]

I was only curious about this because I happened to see again, a very common picture of Bill Monroe's mandoliin, after the restoration. I couldn't believe the amount of wear, not only in the places on the mando I expected the wear to show, but all OVER the face, and so forth.

It's easy to see that, not only was it played, but it had a long rough ride. That made me wonder what my mandolin might look like in 50 years. (assuming I live to be 102 that is). I don't intend to put any instruments "away for posterity" .........just plan on playing what I got.

The only other curiosity really, was what the mando might experience over time, just due to age......and that was answered in spades, so far.

[Mike Bunting]

I thought they went to mandolin heaven.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Some of them grow up and become Bouzoukis and Mandocellos....

[mandolirius]

I know that Andy Statman recently switched from his A2Z to a Kimble F model. Part of that may be exploring different tonalities, as there's no real comparison between an oval hole and a f-hole mandolin. But I've also heard that part of the reason was that the A2 was just starting to wear out. If you've ever seen a picture of that mandolin, it was pretty much down to bare wood on the treble side of the top.

[Big Blue]

It is impossible to let something sit, anything, unattended and not have it fall apart and get ruined. Except for a Twinkie.

[bluesmandolinman]

,
not take it off completely, 'cause then the neck can warp backwards with no string pull),

hhhm I don´t know if this is correct.
I remember some of the well respected luthiers here on the cafe said the oposite... no problems when string tension is completely off.

hopefully "they" read this topic and comment again :popcorn: