Mike Marshall's Mandolin Fundamentals, Vol.1 - My Thoughts

[Alex Orr]

I think I'll be controversial today... :grin:

Up front, let me just say I'm an avid hobbyist picker who's played for about 2 1/2 years. I don't claim to be an expert...these are just my opinions.

I've been going over this for the last week and IMO, I would say that it is a very good asset for the beginner. I would actually recomend that anyone starting off pick this up and perhaps give it a once through before they do anything else. I still advocate starting out with the Horne book to build your knowledge of the instrument, but Marshall's DVD has some great info on some really basic concepts to help avoid bad habits. I also think that it could only help your playing if you start using some of his exercises as practice warm-up early on. However...

I think it has limited value for the Intermediate player. I know, I know...far be it for me to say that anything by Mike Marshall is anything less than essential for ALL players :disbelief: However, I think that if you have played for a couple of years, used good instructional material and/or had a good teacher, and really taken the time to work on fundamentals, then this stuff will be old hat. I'm glad I've watched the DVD just because it comes up a lot in discussions at the Cafe and now I feel like I can have my own first-hand opinion, but honestly, none of his advice was new to me and nearly all of the "exercises" he demonstrates seemed both overly simplistic and too lite in terms of reinforcing "musical" ideas. A lot of the scale-based exercises I've made up myself and gotten from other places (such as Niles' books) are, IMHO, both more challenging and do a far better job teaching and reinforcing the notes on the fretboard and various scales. I'm sure he has plenty of similar exercises in his book that are just as (and probably more) challenging, but the ones from Vol. 1 just seemed too basic to be of any constructive use to me at this point.

One other slight issue... Mike really advocates sitting down, eh? :confused: Sure, I play a lot sitting down, but I also try to spend as much time playing while standing. If you go to a jam, odds are that you'll be standing up. You probably won't have a chair and a footstool. You should get used to playing the instrument standing up. I think Jimmy Heffernan said something similar on one of his dobro DVDs, and the philosophy of making sure that you practice like you're going to play is frequently mentioned by some experienced pickers on the Cafe. I think Mike's points are valid, but I would have liked to see him advocate that players start out early on being comfortable with playing the instrument standing up, with it hanging around their neck and/or shoulder. I also think the posture he recomends would be murder on most people's lower back and is a bit more clumsy if you aren't playing an F-style, but that may just be me.

I'll still get volume 2. I spend 5-10 minutes a day running through chords, but a DVD on chord theory for mando seems like it could be informative and since I've finished Volume 1, I suppose I should at least see the sequel, right? ;)

[Rick Schmidlin]

I would love to read more reviews on both one and two.

[onassis]

Thanks for the info! This is really timely for me, as I just ordered the 2 DVD set on Saturday. I've been in the mood for more instruction lately, but I know from past experience that I'm not so great with the " book larnin' " concept, so I thought a DVD might be a good idea. Went to the Homespun site, and this one appealed to me more than any other. Not really interested in memorizing any tabbed solos, really more smitten with delving deeper into theory, fretboard knowledge, and increasing digital dexterity, so the 2nd DVD is really attractive.

The 1st one still interests me, though. I've onlly been playing for 18 mos or so, after 20 yrs of guitar, and have yet to take a lesson. So I'm worried that I may have some bad habits that need breaking. I'm waiting to see what Mike has to say.

On another note, I've also been thinking about taking some lessons. My concern is that I'm not sure what I want to learn! Like I said before, no real interest in verbatim instrumentals, solos, or hot licks. I'd really like to find someone who could start me on some good technique, fretboard skills and chord theory. Know anyone in central VA?

[Perry]

I think you will get more out of his chord book then the DVD.

http://www.elderly.com/books/items/644-2.htm

though it is great to watch him play the Cherokee chord melody on the DVD. It's also it the book BTW.

[fishdawg40]

I respectfully disagree.

I think these DVDs are as good as they get. They help the student with the physical stamina of playing. I've been working on a few exercises for the last week and my pinkie already feels stronger. I believe, If you practice these exercises everyday (Vol 1) you will be a monster picker. I put on the metronome and go through them. It's great. I've been playing for about 8 years on and off and I think this is a solid fundamental series. I think all players could benefit from them. However, I don't think this is the only way to learn or lone answer for being a superb player, there's no such thing.

I think it will take time to properly execute these exercises with the correct tone and timing. Not to mention at different/higher speeds. I think the word fundamental scares off some intermediate players and I also think that on the face these exercises look very simple, but there are not. The discipline to do these "simple" exercises is proof that they aren't so simple. It's like wanting to watch TV (or insert other unproductive activity) rather than do pushups. It's not easy.

I do agree with the posture suggestion, that looks like it would be killer for your back. But also I don't think practicing standing up is a requisite (I play in a band and the only time when I practice standing up is at band practice).

I view most of the first video like a weight lifting regimen. It doesn't really take a lot of mind work but takes a lot of stamina and strength.

Alex, if these exercises here are not useful for your playing I think you may be a better player than what you think. If you've come up with something better that works for you that's great. However, I believe a great percentage of "intermediate" Cafe members would find this series beneficial.

One more thing,
However, I think that if you have played for a couple of years, used good instructional material and/or had a good teacher, and really taken the time to work on fundamentals, then this stuff will be old hat.

Well, in perfect world somebody will have the best teacher and best instructional materials and perfect practice regimen. I learned a lot before I had this series, basic theory especially comes to mind in regards to supplementing Mikes lessons. I've had prior knowledge and I continue to learn outside the Marshall series. And I know what my weaknesses are. And these DVDs exposed some of them.

[Alex Orr]

I respectfully disagree...
No problem, I welcome the disagreement :) This is a pretty popular DVD and I'm aware that my opinion is going to be in the minority, but I did want to put it out there. In the end, my consternation may simply be a result of the darn contrarian streak in me :))

I guess the problem I have with the exercises is that they do seem too easy, and lite on substance. Working on playing diferent cross-picking patterns and rolls at brisk tempos is both more challenging, and I think just as useful in developing dexterity, as playing two-string DUDU patterns on open strings...and, you get to improve your cross-picking. Making up various patterns out of the FFcP scales and working them out briskly and with good tone is a heck of a finger workout...and you get to improve your knowledge of scales and the fingerboard. To me, those are two things that would benefit an intermediate player more than simply walking your fingers up and down the neck, fret-by-fret. I want the things I do in practice to not only improve the sound of my playing, but to also build my skills in writing breaks of my own, and improvising, with the latter skill being something which I feel is a terribly weak aspect of my playing. IMO, a lot of Marshall's exercises suffer from being mostly useful on one side of that equation, and as such, they seem to be limited or at the very least, it seems like one could have more substantive dexterity exercises.

However, at the end of the day, I'll easily concede that musical learning is a pretty personal task. Some folks simply respond better to things that someone else just doesn't find helpful. I'm just trying to provide an honest, thoughtful, and completely personal critique of the video mostly for the sake of discussion :)

[Douglas McMullin]

Alex, are you looking to unload your copy of Vol. 1?

[fishdawg40]

I understand your point a little better. Maybe if Mike said, "Now say the notes aloud while your playing them." I used to do that ad nauseum while playing scales. Or if he mentioned patterns, you're correct there. Playing scale patterns are fundamental, in many things, but especially in beginning improvising.

Funny thing is we know about the ideas of scale patterns or saying the notes aloud, we bought his dvd and we can add what we know to his exercises. I don't think he mentioned a metronome in the set but I'm using mine. That's where this video is usable for all styles of players. I actually lent the set to a player and builder (who won Winfield) and he thought they were great. I'll ask him if there is anything there that could help him and I have strong feeling he will say yes.

I really don't know the correct way to teach and it seems Mike could have added a little color to the DVD set. However, I stand by the nuts and bolts of the DVDs because *you're correct again* learning is personal, and everybody brings something to the learning table. Also, I think there are many other learning guides that go through tunes, theory, and styles, whereas this is pretty neutral for any player in any genre.

The bottom line is I think that it is a tough job to make the perfect DVD.

Good discussion, now it's time to.....:mandosmiley:

[foldedpath]

I agree with the assessment of the 1st DVD, especially the part about finding a teacher to get started. That's what I did for a few months as a jump-start, two years ago, then started looking around at instructional materials like the Marshall series.

I don't personally have the self-discipline to work through the exercises that make up most of the 1st volume, and I found other material for scale exercises. YMMV, of course. The most I got out of the first volume were the introductory tips on posture, picking technique, etc. For that, it was worth the money, even though that's a fairly small section of the DVD. I was learning some of that from my teacher, but since there are different approaches to mandolin playing, and not all that many hard-and-fast rules, it helps to see how different pros approach things. The Chris Thile DVD was helpful in that way too. I didn't try to work through learning the tunes, it was just interesting to hear him talk about his approach to the instrument.

Marshall's second volume DVD on chords though, was tremendously helpful since I'm a "transitioning guitar player." It's the best introduction to chords and related theory on the mandolin fretboard that I've found so far, at least in DVD format. I'm still collecting other books and resources, like the McGann book on octave mandolin, and I just recently got the Andy Statman book and CD set on Jazz Mandolin (boy, that's going to be a lifelong project... woof!). I want to get into Ted Eschliman's book on jazz mandolin too, at some point. The Marshall DVD on chords is a good foundation for moving into more advanced areas.


One other slight issue... Mike really advocates sitting down, eh? :confused: Sure, I play a lot sitting down, but I also try to spend as much time playing while standing. If you go to a jam, odds are that you'll be standing up. You probably won't have a chair and a footstool. You should get used to playing the instrument standing up.

I disagree. Remember, not all mandolin players are playing Bluegrass. :)

Everyone is always seated at the OldTime jams and Irish sessions I go to. I play in two bands, and both bands play seated unless it's for a dance. Playing seated is common for acoustic country-blues players, and for the classical crowd. Sure, don't get locked into it, so you can't play standing if you ever want to... but this is really a genre-specific thing.

[JeffD]

I
I disagree. Remember, not all mandolin players are playing Bluegrass. :)

Everyone is always seated at the OldTime jams and Irish sessions I go to. I play in two bands, and both bands play seated unless it's for a dance. Playing seated is common for acoustic country-blues players, and for the classical crowd. Sure, don't get locked into it, so you can't play standing if you ever want to... but this is really a genre-specific thing.

Very true. A good 75% of the jamming I have done, either locally or at festivals or in my travels, or just back yard pickin at a party a neighbors house, has been sitting down. I don't do a whole lot of "orthodox" bluegrass jamming, and even then, if I can I like to sit down. I play standing up for a concert or when I play a contradance of course.

I have been playing sitting down for so long now that I have gone strapless, favoring a foot rest instead.