View Full Version : How many play every song from the heart?
Rick Schmidlin
Jun-23-2009, 11:37am
I do, each one has a special meaning some times, time and place when first learned, other in what it says in regard to my life and feelings.
Charley wild
Jun-23-2009, 11:59am
If I learn a song from tab and stay strictly to the arrangement. I don't feel much if I'm playing along with it on a CD or just playing it alone. (Understandable, I guess). But if I'm playing with somebody and doing the strict tab arrangement I get right into it! Also when I'm alone just noodling around with any tune or jamming with a rhythm track I always get right into it.
gregjones
Jun-23-2009, 12:10pm
I guess I do. If it wasn't something special to me I don't have the time to bother learning it.
By special, I mean a song with relevance to something in my past (there's a bunch of past;)), or major lifestyle stuff (I'm big on hippie, peace, love--we're gonna change the world stuff--although the only thing we changed was to make ponytail holders an acceptable purchase for either gender).
I try to learn Sally Goodin'---it just has never stuck over several years. Another part of the forum has a thread about "Comin' Into Los Angeles"---I think I've made amazing progress on a version of it in a week or so.
Tunes just don't click with me. I like songs, and if a song was a favorite 35 years ago it's easier to work up now---even though I can't remember what it was to me way back when.
Ramble......ramble. Can you tell I'm stuck in south PA until tomorrow?
jim_n_virginia
Jun-23-2009, 12:49pm
To me when I play it is always a learning process (that I enjoy of course!) I am always analizing what I am playing, seeing if I can play something a new way or just flat out trying to learn it.
I think I tend to "play from the heart" more when I am playing something I wrote or improvising. But there are a few tunes (usually slow) that to me are just beautiful timeless classics and sometimes I just get into them so much it is as if I am playing from the heart.
But then again I will be the first to admit there are many times mostly on stage where I am just having such a good time that I play without thinking and just look at other band member and goof off or wink. I don't think I am playing from the heart then! LOL!
kristallyn
Jun-23-2009, 12:53pm
not every song no
I play in two bands that each must have repertoires of over 150 songs. there are songs that I play/sing either on guitar or mandolin, that truly mean a lot, and I can actually feel them EVERY time I sing or play them, but there are others that are just part of the repertoire, they are part of "the job" which doesn t mean I don t like them..but some lyrics or melodies get to you, and others are just entertaining/amusing/enjoyable
I don t play anything I dont like..ever
bobby bill
Jun-23-2009, 12:55pm
there are many times mostly on stage where I am just having such a good time that I play without thinking and just look at other band member and goof off or wink. I don't think I am playing from the heart then! LOL!
Maybe I don't have a good grasp of the concept, but I think when your having such a good time that you can play without thinking is exactly when you are playing from the heart.
I play from the heart of the tune.
Where I learned it, or how I felt or feel about it don't enter into it for me. I try hard to play out what the tune itself is trying to express.
Now in that process, I may call on all kinds of emotions and experiences that I have had, or fake it, what ever works - but my goal is not to express my heart (who cares, not interesting in scheme of things, and nobodies business besides) but to bring out what the tune is getting at.
I don't care if these musicians have ever really felt anything like what is in the tune, I don't care where they learned the tune, or what they felt or feel about the tune. I don't even care what they feel while they sing it. And yet, the tune has heart enough for all of us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzDUi_L6MzA
http://www.truveo.com/otis-redding-tennessee-waltz/id/1658575108
I don t play anything I dont like..ever
Oh I do. Usually its a tune I used to like but for what ever reason I don't anymore, but if everyone in the jam is playing it or if someone else really really likes it, I'll do it.
A prime example is Ashoken Farewell. I am just sooooooooo tired of the tune, having played it 983849348457938454 times and heard it twice as many as that. Its a beautiful tune, its really a wonderful tune, but I am just so over it.
But I will play it for anyone who asks me sweetly, and give it 100% every time.
And the audience will never know my true feelings about it.
Ken Sager
Jun-23-2009, 2:07pm
"From the heart" is a metaphor that might be used to describe how someone might sing, or write, but in my experience playing is done in the moment, regardless of where that moment finds you or what tune you're playing.
Tunes don't have hearts. People do, and often music is used to communicate what's in the heart, so to speak.
Play what you feel and say what you mean.
Love to all,
Ken
Play what you feel and say what you mean.
Perhaps in jazz or in composition. But a performance is a performance, nobody wants to hear me play what I really feel:
I'm tired, my feet hurt, this is going rather well, that girl in the back is cute, is she with anyone, here comes the fast part, hey I'm doing ok here, oh wow, I nailed it, more drunks coming in from the bar, look at those baggy pants I don't want to see his underwear peeking over the top like that, here's my break, relax, relax, big finish, now tremolo, hold it, she smiled at me, their clapping, I'm so tired.
woodwizard
Jun-23-2009, 2:45pm
:)) Wow Jeff ... that's how it really is for me too most of the time. :) Good discription
Jill McAuley
Jun-23-2009, 4:49pm
I do I think, that's where the enjoyment comes from, at least for me - I also heed the advice of my banjo teacher back home who told me that there are too many great tunes out there waiting to be learned to be wasting your time learning a tune that just doesn't speak to you. Too much clutter in our heads anyways, so even if a tune is an old "session stalwart" that folks say you just "gotta know", if it just doesn't do it for me I'll not waste time figuring it out.
Cheers,
Jill
billkilpatrick
Jun-23-2009, 4:51pm
i do.
Ken Sager
Jun-25-2009, 1:51pm
Whether you know it or not you're playing what you feel. It shows. If you're acting differently then you're feeling, you're creating a moment. You decide whether your moment is full of music or the other things (of which there are myriads) to think about.
You're in your moment and that's where your music comes from. You explained my point. Better than I did.
Perhaps in jazz or in composition. But a performance is a performance, nobody wants to hear me play what I really feel:
I'm tired, my feet hurt, this is going rather well, that girl in the back is cute, is she with anyone, here comes the fast part, hey I'm doing ok here, oh wow, I nailed it, more drunks coming in from the bar, look at those baggy pants I don't want to see his underwear peeking over the top like that, here's my break, relax, relax, big finish, now tremolo, hold it, she smiled at me, their clapping, I'm so tired.
David M.
Jun-25-2009, 2:24pm
...she smiled at me, their clapping, I'm so tired.
She smiling 'cause you nailed your break or bombed your break :)
For tunes, I try to play from the heart as much as I can, but there are some that I just don't like as much as others. A guitar player might kick off that Steel Guitar rag or whatever that tune is and I'll just follow. Or Cripple Creek. Can't stand it.
Songs on the other hand are different. For singing a song, it HAS to be heartfelt or else I won't sing it. I sing songs that I love and hopefully that comes across. Man Of Constant Sorrow on flattop in Drop D tuning (capoed on 3rd fret for the way Tyminski plays it) gets extremely old, but I get requests for it.
But it's all good stuff, no matter how it's felt.
Perhaps in jazz or in composition. But a performance is a performance, nobody wants to hear me play what I really feel:
I'm tired, my feet hurt, this is going rather well, that girl in the back is cute, is she with anyone, here comes the fast part, hey I'm doing ok here, oh wow, I nailed it, more drunks coming in from the bar, look at those baggy pants I don't want to see his underwear peeking over the top like that, here's my break, relax, relax, big finish, now tremolo, hold it, she smiled at me, their clapping, I'm so tired.
Heh - brilliant!
I agree. People sometimes refer to entertainment as a bad word, but I have no problem with it - I think it's wonderful if people are enjoying what I'm playing, regardless of how I feel about it.
IMO, people may or may not be moved by music. Great performances tend to have a certain energy behind them, but good performances don't have to be 100% sincere. The flipside is that plenty of lousy performances are very sincere, just lousy for other reasons. I think this is part of why big names don't want to play their hits for decades after they've written them - it's not a sincere performance anymore (because they tend to be sick of the tunes) regardless of how great a song is or what they felt when they originally composed and performed it.
farmerjones
Jun-25-2009, 3:04pm
For me, tunes are "keeping your eye on the ball" as John Hartford would say. Keeping the music in it.
Songs on the other hand, should be heartfelt i think. It's doing the piece justice.
billkilpatrick
Jun-25-2009, 3:20pm
For me, tunes are "keeping your eye on the ball" as John Hartford would say. Keeping the music in it.
Songs on the other hand, should be heartfelt i think. It's doing the piece justice.
vero! one can go overboard, i suppose - but playing it like you mean it is the only way - it's all about "keeping your eye on the ball" - no matter what ...
and it's easy to loose sight of the ball - even with professionals prone to histrionics far beyond the scope of the original lyrics. remember otis redding's performance of "try a little tenderness?" towards the end of the piece - with him screaming and the band thrashing away behind him - i get the feeling that "tenderness" has fallen a bit by the wayside.
Alex Orr
Jun-25-2009, 3:53pm
I try to play them with feeling, but especially with fiddle tunes, it's almost more of a technical challenge - which can also be quite thrilling. Most fiddle tunes don't hold much meaning for me, other than as a vehicle to have some fun on my instrument.
Rick Cadger
Jun-25-2009, 4:06pm
Perhaps in jazz or in composition. But a performance is a performance, nobody wants to hear me play what I really feel:
I'm tired, my feet hurt, this is going rather well, that girl in the back is cute, is she with anyone, here comes the fast part, hey I'm doing ok here, oh wow, I nailed it, more drunks coming in from the bar, look at those baggy pants I don't want to see his underwear peeking over the top like that, here's my break, relax, relax, big finish, now tremolo, hold it, she smiled at me, their clapping, I'm so tired.
In my world the rough translation of that goes:
This is going well 'cause the rest of the band is playing so loud that no one can here me, and that's the way I prefer it. Here comes the fast part... Drat! Why do I always screw up that same bit? A few drunks at the bar... maybe I should go join them. Are you sure these are my fingers? Then why won't they do what I ask? If I keep my head down they might not try to get me to play a solo. I hate solos, that's why I hate 'Mama Don't Allow'... Next time Gordon sings "Mama don't allow no mandolin playin' 'round here" I'm gonna push him of his freakin' chair...
The only time I'm relaxed enough to play from the heart is when I'm at home and the mistakes don't matter. Then I just let rip.
And, y' know, sometimes it almost works. :mandosmiley:
Mike Bunting
Jun-25-2009, 4:30pm
I heard a great story regarding Quincy Jones and Ray Charles. As real young players, they ended up in Seattle scrabbling for jobs. Quincy was bitching about doing a gig in a polka band. Brother Ray pointed out to him that you have to find the heart and soul of what you are playing and it it exists in every style etc. Always stuck in my mind. Why are we playing if not to express our feelings, otherwise we are just dllettantes. I would hope that Niles H. will check in here on this topic, cause he really nails it.
Dennis Ladd
Jun-25-2009, 4:35pm
When the mechanics of learning a tune or song is done and the fingers can sorta fly on their own, then the from-the-heart playing can happen for me. So sometimes it's work and sometimes the music takes off and seems to play itself. When that happens, you can almost hear the audience sigh and relax back in their seats afterwards.
We always hope the slogging set happens during practice and not in front of the audience.
Bertram Henze
Jun-26-2009, 11:24am
I have to work on every tune I learn - can't play just the notation, not on an OM, not at session speed, no sir. So I build a rough, playable version of each one with lots of double stops, but trying to keep up the original character in the process. When it finally runs, it's mine as much as anybody else's. Can't do that without my heart being in it, never could.
Bertram
Brother Ray pointed out to him that you have to find the heart and soul of what you are playing and it it exists in every style etc....
... Why are we playing if not to express our feelings, otherwise we are just dllettantes. .
Not to stir the pot (too much :grin: ) but isn't that a contradiction?
I agree with the first part, find the heart and sould of what I am playing, not the heart and sole of me necessarily, but of the tune.
The second part I disagree with, because, most of all, the tunes I play are much more interesting than I am, and the emotions I have are not all that original or interesting, or intense at this particular moment, while the emotions communicated by the tunes are awesome.
I go with George Burns on this: Its all about sincerity, when you can fake that you have it made.
I try to play them with feeling, but especially with fiddle tunes, it's almost more of a technical challenge - which can also be quite thrilling. Most fiddle tunes don't hold much meaning for me, other than as a vehicle to have some fun on my instrument.
Perhaps thats because there is an explicit meaning expressed in the words of the song. If you are looking for that kind of meaning in a tune, it more than likely is not there.
We should not look as much at "what does the tune mean" and more into "how does a tune mean".
A tune, if its a good one, has its own internal narrative logic.
There is a way that a good tune is "about itself", even before its about anything else, and this is captured in how the tune sets up musical expectations and then goes on to puncture them and surprise us. The good tune should feel like a new story being told by an old friend - comfortable and recognizable, yet fresh and exciting.
There is also a way that a good tune makes you yearn. The A part should make you yearn for the B part the way oreos make you yearn for milk. And B part should make you want to start over, the way a cold glass of milk makes you want an oreo cookie. Back and forth and back and forth.
Two tunes that dramatically, if perhaps without much subtlety, do these things well - March of St. Timothy, and Old Grey Cat. A delightful tune that does these things well would be Wild Rose of the Mountain. You don't need reference to a rose or a saint or a cat or a mountain to "get" these tunes.
The player can bring out the narrative logic of a tune, and express all this drama and tension and comfort and delight, all of it. Without necessary reference to anything external.
Who wants to hear me expressing in my playing that I am ticked off because if Wendy's is closed when this gig is over I am going home hungry.
No broken heart, no aching poverty, just missing my baconator and fries.
bobby bill
Jun-26-2009, 3:07pm
The second part I disagree with, because, most of all, the tunes I play are much more interesting than I am, and the emotions I have are not all that original or interesting, or intense at this particular moment, while the emotions communicated by the tunes are awesome.
Well put. More truth here than some folks may want to admit.
Mike Bunting
Jun-26-2009, 3:34pm
It's not about your emotions, it's about empathy and how the emotion of the music can flow through you as it stirs your emotions hopefully to a higher level than where you are going to get your next big mac.
billkilpatrick
Jun-26-2009, 4:29pm
It's not about your emotions, it's about empathy and how the emotion of the music can flow through you as it stirs your emotions hopefully to a higher level than where you are going to get your next big mac.
that's profound ... you mean, it's not the singer, it's not the onion rings ... it's the song!
i'm on board.
Mike Bunting
Jun-26-2009, 4:42pm
All of a sudden its so obvious,eh! (that's Canuck instead of the Italian aaye)
Ken Sager
Jun-26-2009, 4:56pm
If you separate the music from the musician playing it you then separate any qualities that musician gives the music at that moment...
It's not just the song, it's the moment it is created and re-created. It's the playing it and listening to it. If you're thinking about anything else you're not playing it nor are you listening to it.
Be where you are.
Mike Bunting
Jun-26-2009, 5:39pm
It becomes one.
I don't know, I don't feel that romantic about everything I play. A lot of times I'm just having fun. If I bang away 'Salt Creek' for the 2000th time, I'm just givin'er, maybe letting my fingers fly away, maybe sticking pretty close to the melody, whatever, there's nothing that profound about it. If I wail out 'Whiskey in the jar' yet again around a campfire, I'm probably not thinking about Irish highwaymen or sticking it to the man or being cheated on by my girl - I'm just singing the lyrics I memorized several years ago; they come out kind of natural-like in a nice story. There may or may not be any emotion in it whatsoever. I didn't write the song, and I may not even understand everything in it.
It's like if I'm going for a bike ride - am I doing it 'from the heart'? Not necessarily. Sure, sometimes I'm experiencing the world around me, taking in the sights and smells, feeling very much in the moment. But sometimes I'm just trying to get somewhere. Maybe even to work - boo.
mandolirius
Jun-26-2009, 6:15pm
I think the whole idea is an artificial construct. The idea that you open up some pipeline to your deepest soul everytime you pick up an instrument is a romantic, but idealistic notion. We play in all sorts of emotional states and frames of mind, not to mention contexts. If you go to a jam, are you playing every song "from the heart". If you're working on a difficult piece, practising slowly and repetitively, is that "from the heart"? Not to mention gigs. Some gigs, due to things like sound problems or whatever, you just try to survive. Or if you get hired to play on a recording and you're told exactly what to play. To say, I play everything from the heart is do make a dubious claim indeed.
mandocrucian
Jun-26-2009, 7:25pm
I think the whole idea is an artificial construct.
I agree.
Chris Biorkman
Jun-26-2009, 7:27pm
This topic is making me cringe a bit.
mandozilla
Jun-26-2009, 8:37pm
As far as fiddle tunes and instrumentals are concerned there isn't a whole lot of feeling going on IMHO...more contrived and picked by rote or what have you.
If instrumental breaks in a song can be played with emotion then I'm not quite there yet. I haven't been playing the mandolin all that long but I've been singing Bluegrass music since I was 16 (I'm 56 now) and it's my favorite part of the genre.
When it come to singing a song, if it's not done with feeling it's dull and mechanical. I can't explain how it's done but I'm blessed (or cursed) with a vivid imagination. When I sing a song a, sort of, movie runs through my head and I can visualize what's going on in the song.
That movie in my head tugs at my emotions and I express them in the song. It's getting harder as I age because sometimes I almost get overwhelmed with emotion...I ain't as tough as I used to be. Sounds weird but there it is.
:grin:
~o):mandosmiley:
Bertram Henze
Jun-26-2009, 11:43pm
...Not to mention gigs. Some gigs, due to things like sound problems or whatever, you just try to survive.
That's one of the reasons I have stopped doing gigs - the whole buggy technical tanglewood kept me from concentrating on the music. I have that in my day job and that's plenty.
But I claim to have my heart in it to the extent that I can be proud of the musical result, just like a craftsman can be proud of his work. No need for transcendental fantasies.
Bertram
OldSausage
Jun-27-2009, 9:13am
I play with my brain and my hands. My heart pumps blood around my body, and only my feet have soles.
I can perform a few songs "from the heart" , some that I've written come off that way. Blues improvization comes to mind as well in that I play what I feel within the structure of the song. I guess thats true for most improvisation though for some solos I may be putting across to my listeners that in my heart I haven't got the slightest Idea what this songs about or even how it goes! Wheather you can play it "from the heart" or not I feel it's important to play it like you mean it, to perform it instead of just playing the notes. That is much harder for me if I don't care for the song, but, if you play for and/or with others you'll end up playing some stuff that just doesn't speak to you.
I think the whole idea is an artificial construct. The idea that you open up some pipeline to your deepest soul everytime you pick up an instrument is a romantic, but idealistic notion..
I agree. I think you can play well, you can play with expression, you can do all the kinds of things you might do to make a tune happy, or sad, or romantic, or angry, but none of those things require you to BE happy or sad or romantic or angry at the time.
I do get the point, though of getting one's head in the game. My post earlier does leave an aftertaste - day dreaming through a tune is probably not the best idea.
Jack Roberts
Jun-28-2009, 7:08am
I only play one "from the heart". When I play in front of other people I don't get too into myself. We had a guitar player who was like that and it didn't work well. When I play by myself it is mostly mechanical practice--trying to learn something new. But when I'm done for the day and I'm ready to put the mandolin away I play my favorite piece, from my heart. (Being no deeper than a teaspoon myself, I'm fortunate that I don't have to reach down deep.)
mandocrucian
Jun-28-2009, 9:02am
What happens when some pro "sings/plays from the heart". Its fine if it is innocuous lyrics or purely instrumental, but if it veers to any sort of heartfelt views, then half the audience is going to start screaming "Shut up and sing!" or "Shut up and play!".
the new studio mantra: KIBS - keep it bland stupid (applicable for forums too)
mandroid
Jun-28-2009, 10:21am
Topic has me thinking of the 'point of view' gun in recent 'Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy' film production.
where, in the hands of Marvin the incessantly depressive robot, causes the invading Vogon troops to give up entirely.
OldSausage
Jun-28-2009, 10:33am
I would now like to recite my poem "Ode to a small lump of green putty I found in my armpit one midsummer morning", from my heart...
300win
Jun-28-2009, 10:42am
Yea I guess I do, only can play by ear. If the song is sad, I try to let the sadness i've known before to come out of the mando, guitar, whatever. If it's a happy bouncy tune like a Irish jig, or Scottish hornpipe, I let my happiness play through. If it's a barn burning Bluegrass breakdown, I grit my teeth and as Briscoe Darlin said, "grab holt, and hang on". Music after all is the expression not in words but in tones of our emotions, no matter what kind we play, or how we play.
Jill McAuley
Jun-28-2009, 10:54am
Folks on the board who play irish trad know all about the "lift", "lilt", or "bounce" needed to do justice by the tunes - if your playing doesn't have that then it doesn't sound like trad. I kinda took "playing from the heart" to mean playing with feeling, as opposed to some tie-dyed, overly emoting connection to your inner cheeseburger (or onion ring in the case of vegetarians..). And anyone who knows me can attest to the fact that I don't possess a heart but rather a small lump of coal, which may or may not be heart shaped....
Cheers,
Jill
JeffD
Jul-01-2009, 10:32am
As far as fiddle tunes and instrumentals are concerned there isn't a whole lot of feeling going on IMHO...more contrived and picked by rote or what have you.
I can't explain how it's done but I'm blessed (or cursed) with a vivid imagination. When I sing a song a, sort of, movie runs through my head and I can visualize what's going on in the song.
:
A song has that immediate access to its meaning. You can mine it deep, with all your imagination and empathy.
A tune is a different animal. But it can be every bit as profound. Its just that the meaning is not as explicit. Think of the blues. When Stevie Ray plays a instrumental, everyone gets it, even though no two members of the audience are imagining losing the same love, or whatever. (Think, in contrast, to Bucket Head, who plays a blisteringly awesome instrumental that conveys nothing but "look at me, look at me".)
billkilpatrick
Jul-01-2009, 11:33am
practicing and playing for yourself - getting it right - is one thing but when performing for others, a certain amount of empathy and verisimilitude is essential. not too much - nothing over the top - nothing glib or histrionic, just enough so that the person listening to the song knows that you know what it's about and can have some understanding for what he/she might be feeling. i don't think that's too much to ask - without it, it's just musak.
JeffD
Jul-01-2009, 12:51pm
Folks on the board who play irish trad know all about the "lift", "lilt", or "bounce" needed to do justice by the tunes - if your playing doesn't have that then it doesn't sound like trad.
Really good point.
One of the things I love about Irish music is that you don't have to wonder what you need to do to get it right, to make it effective and evocative. When in doubt, play it as traditionally as possible, keep all the figures and ornaments traditional, and emphasize the rhythm appropriate to type of tune it is, be it a slip jig or a hornpipe. Traditional music has a lot of integrity that way. You don't need to jazz it up or shmaltz it up.
If you are effective at jazzing or bluesing up a tune great, and I have heard some excellent renditions. But when in doubt, you can't go wrong going traditional. The tunes have the entertainment in them. You don't have to supply it, you just bring it out.
In fact, I think of Steleye Span, and the French band Malicorne, who used electric guitars and effects, but because they played their music traditionally on those non-traditional instruments, it worked well.