The Banjo

[TommyK]

I've noticed something about mando players, they tend to disparage Banjos and their players? I've heard them being called 'stupid' and some deign to type the word banjo in it's entirety, vis b**j* or something similar.
What have you guys got agains minner dippers?, clawhammers and the like?
Is it because it enjoys the lime light sometimes, taking it away from the mandoes / mandos (there goes that spelling thing again).
Is it that most musical groups have to have someone to pick on and bluegrass bands don't have drummers?
Speaking of Drummers, I read this on in a university Music building:
There was an orchestra where the percussion section just wasn't getting it right. The conductor spouted,"When a musician can't hack it as a musician, they give him two sticks and make him a drummer."
From the back could be heard, "Yep, and when he can't hack it as a drummer, they take one stick away and make him a conductor> http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
(sorry about the ADHD tendency... where was I?)
Oh yeah, what's the tiff between mandos / mandoes and Banjo / banjoes? (will someone give me the correct spelling?) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[mandodebbie]

An evil banjo player way back in high school was very mean to me. He excluded me from just listening to the student's jam session after drama class. I was never allowed join to in. (I played acoustic guitar then.) It seems that I had "cramped his style" ie: I wasn't tall and good looking enough.) I have have carried this indignation in heart for many, many, many... years. I have just recently taken up mando. I'm not pushing my luck in attempting to join any bands taken my unfortunate history. That's my story.:O

[John Flynn]

My two cents, based on having played in a band and jammed with a lot of banjo players:

They are not all bad. I love playing with a really good banjo player and I have known a few. Also, let me caveat and say I am only talking 5-string players here. Tenor banjos are a different instrument and my comments don't apply to them. With those caveats, I have the following problems with banjo players:

1) At least in old time music, the ratio of good banjo players to bad seems to be much worse than with other instruments. It seems many people take up banjo because they are not good musicians and they think the banjo will be the easiest choice. It's not true: playing the banjo well takes as much time and talent as any other instrument.

2) Banjos seem to be out of tune even more than mandolins and in addition, unlike mandolins, they have to re-tune each time the group changes keys and it seems to take forever.

3) Banjo players have that cultural connotation that has been illustrated by the movies "Deliverance" (where the banjo playing kid was obviously short of a few DNA strands) and "Cold Mountain" (where Strobrod's banjo playing sidekick was basically a villiage idiot). This cultural image is also supported by a rich tradition of banjo jokes that is a proud part of our American heritage and cannot be ignored.

Plus everybody needs someone to look down on. For mando players, it's banjo players. I didn't make that rule, I just live by it. #When we broke up my last band, which had two banjo players in it, and started a new band, one of our "by-laws" was no banjo players - ever, for all the reasons above.

[Philip Halcomb]

I think they bitch too much personally, everytime we want to play a song in a key other than G, they complain that they have to capo their instrument and retune. Also, many banjo players do not know how to tone it down when others are taking a break. One of my pet-peeves is not being able to hear myself while performing... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[TommyK]

"It seems many people take up banjo because they are not good musicians and they think the banjo will be the easiest choice."
Well, It seems one of your sentences sums it up.
And by my reckoning, they are the drum section of the BG world. Must have something to do with the REMO head. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Emmiemando]

Okay, Dude...I, being a mando player, think that there is nothing wrong with banjos. I mean, when I think of one, I tend to think of the Beverly HillBillies. But there are a few banjo players who've caught my ear. I think the perspective of the banjo depends on the listener.

[TommyK]

I think they bitch too much personally, everytime we want to play a song in a key other than G, they complain that they have to capo their instrument and retune. Also, many banjo players do not know how to tone it down when others are taking a break. One of my pet-peeves is not being able to hear myself while performing...
Yet another drummer attribute. #TO finish the joke I iterated above.

When a musician can't hack it as a conductor (one stick) they take that away and give tell him to get a clawhammer and go build something. #It appears some couldn't find their way to the hardware store and ended up at the music shop. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
NOW I'M DOING IT! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #

Earl Skruggs, not included http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[solerydr]

We had a banjo player who never showed up for practice but always played well at shows, if he showed up for them. Last saturday we looked all over Denton Tx. to see if he was going to play with us that night. His neighbor informed us that he moved to Missouri on friday. Are all banjo players this odd?

i think it might have something to do with the banjo being used by commedians and entertainers in the past......... maybe? i love the banjo and play it ! but nothin comes close to playin mando http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[billydunn]

A couple Tim O'Brien jokes from Grey Fox:

Why are there no banjos on Star Trek?
Because it's the future.

What do you call a beautiful blonde on the arm of a banjo player?
A tattoo.

[TeleMark]

Oooh, I love these...

What's the difference between a banjo and a chain saw?
The chain saw has greater dynamic range.

What's the least-used sentence in the English language?
"Isn't that the banjo player's Porsche?"

There's nothing I like better than the sound of a banjo, unless of course it's the sound of a chicken caught in a vacuum cleaner.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

TeleMark

[Bill Snyder]

This may be a stupid question, but why do banjo players have to retune or use a cappo when the key changes? Is it just so they don't have to learn to play in different keys and can use the same fingerings all the time?

[bnjrpkr]

Why do mando players gripe about banjo pickers?? Sour Grapes,that's what. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Curious,you can get a good bluegrass roll going in G,next you learn C,then D then E and F,but you generally learn G patterns first then C,so you capo up.
I play many songs in the key of F because I like to sing them there.I find very few mando players who like F.It's just a matter of doing it until you're comfortable with it,in my opinion.
As for the banjo being out of tune all the time,it's the banjo and the picker.I don't have to tune much myself,but I don't do a lot of string bending,either.I know mando pickers who are constantly tuning. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[JGWoods]

Banjo player tune a lot because they know they are going to be heard. Mandolin players have no such problem, they can't even hear themselves when the banjo is playing, so what does it matter if they are in tune?

Banjo players bad musicians? I've seen a lot worse among guitar players, and fiddlers too, and I never met a good kazoo player.

I can play in 6 or 7 different tunings. It's easy for me. Most mando and guitar player are stuck in one tuning and one set of fingerings, boring, limited, robs all the potenial for interesting harmonics etc.

All that, and for $1000 I can buy a banjo and drown out 10 $7000 mandolins.


http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Awwww who cares, judging others on their musicianship is a sign you need to get a life. I gotta go put together more banjo mando duets now,
best
gw

[John Flynn]

All that, and for $1000 I can buy a banjo and drown out 10 $7000 mandolins.
I used to operate a jackhammer that could drown out 10 banjos. It also sounded better than 10 banjos!

[recklessmando]

I love banjos. I love banjo pickers. I would never stoop so low as to tell jokes about them. But a picture...

[bnjrpkr]

I used to operate a jackhammer that could drown out 10 banjos. It also sounded better than 10 banjos!
Hey MandoJohnny,that's not a fair comparison.The jack hammer is a pneumatic instrument.It's a member of the bagpipe family. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[JimD]

Just a thought:

Those of us who don't play Bluegrass don't have any complaints about banjo players.

[solerydr]

Last week, after a show, a guy from another band asked me if our new banjo player worships the devil. Personally I didnt think he seemed all that evil, but I guess he has his moments.

[J. Mark Lane]

A banjo player visited New York City not long ago. Being sorta dumb, he didn't think, and left his banjo on the back seat of his car parked on the street. When he came back, someone had broken into the car and ... put another banjo next to his.

M

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

Apparently, you have to be careful about picking on banjo players here on the Cafe. They seem to be a part of the scene here! Oh, yeah I play banjo, too! I also tell banjo jokes on stage, but I'm careful to explain to the audience that I, too play banjo so it's alright if I make fun of banjos. Seems to head off a lot of the "Why do you make fun of the banjo?" comments.

I have played with banjo pickers who sound like jackhammers, and I've played with banjos I couldn't get enough of. Whenever I play the banjo, I try to be one of the latter.

I also can play in G, D, F C, and Bb without capoing. I only capo so it takes more time, and we don't use up all of our material!

[mandoJeremy]

So what's wrong with banjo?.....the real question is what is actually right with it?

[mandoJeremy]

Unless it's Bela, Vestal, or Allison Brown I don't like it as much except in just bluegrass. Those three know how to compliment any instrument. Oops, left out Tony Furtado when he was playing b&*^@o.

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

Unless it's Bela, Vestal, or Allison Brown I don't like it as much except in just bluegrass. #Those three know how to compliment any instrument. #Oops, left out Tony Furtado when he was playing b&*^@o.
I've heard a lot of mandolin players I didn't care for, in fact, I've heard bad bass players, fiddlers, resophonic players, well you get the message. There's good and not so good players all over. If you don't care for the pickers around you, go to a different jam. Or band. Or town.

[Fretbear]

In addition to telling great banjo jokes, Tim O'Brien also plays one (along with anything else that has strings on it)

I DONT GET THE WHOLE BANJO STINKS THING, IF SOMEONE CAN PLAY IT THAN IT SOUNDS GOOD.

[mandoJeremy]

Hi Dr. Enuff, if you will notice I did state in a not bluegrass setting. So, go jam until your heart is content. For me, I will keep playing what I play, in the same town and abroad, and in the same great band. Some of us have higher standards, including teaching someone that knows nothing something.

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

Arghhh! What do standards have to do with degrading a class of people because they play a certain instrument? Changing jams or bands, etc. is just my way of saying, if you run into a player you don't want to be around you should feel free to not be around him (her). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[TommyK]

Woops!
I forgot my momma done tol' me to not discuss, religeon, politics or banjos in a room fulla mandos (mandoes sp?). It just leads to arguement. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Tom C]

It's just a souped up tamberine

[flatthead]

Oh piddly poo.........

Banjos are the coolest instrument in the world!!

[mandoJeremy]

Mr. Gibson, I actually don't play with a lot of banjo players anymore but I certainly don't degrade a class of people because they play banjo and I never have. I like playing with a very good banjo player occasionally but they don't drown my mando out because I play pretty hard. I think the reason most mando players don't like banjo players is because a lot of them play way too hard and drown out the mando.

[mandoJeremy]

The rest of it is just joking and not degrading, of course I can't speak for everyone but that is just what I think.

[TommyK]

I think it's a sibling rivalry type of thing. I tell my brother he's my least favorite sister, but he's my only brother and if he ever needed a kidney, I'd be there in a Nashville minute with a clean Barlow.
The best I've ever heard is a Bassoon referred to as a '####### bed post.'

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

#I think the reason most mando players don't like banjo players is because a lot of them play way too hard and drown out the mando.
Probably true.

[duuuude]

Hey, lighten up y'all, it's just a running joke as long as I can remember that the banjo player takes the brunt of the jokes. Y'all can't really believe the comments are serious?! Just good-natured ribbin' is all.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

Hey, lighten up y'all
Now what fun would that be! Popcorn sales would drop.

[mandoJeremy]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[patsites]

By the way, it's not just mando players.... most fiddlers and flatpickers rip on banjo's too. It's just a loud, obnoxious instrument if not in the right hands and they usually try to play everything too fast.
They have 3 picks (or more) while other string instruments get 1, easy physics can explain why they can play so fast, but it's usually sloppy. My favorite phrase at a bluegrass jam is to stand next a banjo and politely ask "wanna race".

Bela at Rockygrass to Tim O' after he used his blonde tatto joke "why are banjo songs so easy.......so they can teach them to mandolin players!"

[John Flynn]

I mean nothing personal to anyone here by what I am about to say: But I have no doubt that if the banjo players had a site as good and as popular as this one (maybe they do, I don't know), and if one of us mando players were foolish enough to start a thread on that site entitled "The Mandolin, What's Wrong With It?" we would get some of the same kind of responses that the banjo players are getting on this thread. Also, it would be pretty foolish of us to then cry foul and post protests saying in effect, "You guys shouldn't be pickin' on us!" Get real! If you go in a bull ring and wave a red cape, don't blame the bull for charging!

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

Ok, I'm done fanning the flames. Looks like we got us a bonfire going here, and I know Scott ain't a gonna like it one bit! I'm sure everyone here has their favorite banjo joke, and mine came from one of these threads:
They say the banjo is to music what the etch-a-sketch is to art. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[8ch(pl)]

F is probably my favorite key, but I do not do Bluegrass.

I was in a church bluegrass group but it had a very strong minded banjo player who was trying to get me to do stuff I wasn't ready for. Everything we did was in G. If I say more it will read like a rant.

Haven't tried to do a chop chord in 8 years. I went back to Old Time and Folk.

Most board members seem to be into Bluegrass, but that means, to som extent having this Banjo prejudice, with some good reason perhaps.

[jimbob]

I play the 5-string and I accept the jokes...after all, I used to play the trombone...I bet a lot of banjo players used to play the trombone !
Someone montioned tuning problems...that is a real issue. I think one contributing factor might be the price of good banjos and the fact that there may be many pickers using entry level instruments. I had an old Kay...it was almost impossible to keep in tune. My Gibson RB-250 stays in tune very well. Becasue of all of the overtones produced, it is very obvious when the banjo is out of tune and since it is very easily heard, it is very noticable when the banjo is not tuned. Of course, all good musicans realize when their instrument is not properly tuned.
I know that I do not consider myself a serious musician. I do it for fun and relaxation. That is why I took up the banjo. It seems like the mandolin and mandolin players ar more "high brow" ( meant as a compliment)than the banjo folks...maybe it is the close realtion to the fiddle and violin. In my 30+ years of banjo playing, I have actually met very few banjo pickers. Most of the ones I have met were very good musicians and very much a pleasure to jam with. They knew a lot of tunes, played at appropriate levels and all around good guys. I don't mind the jokes because I think the instrument tends to draw fun-loving types with good sense of humor....
I am now very glad to be a new mando player !

[John Flynn]

My daughter has a American History professor who told the class he has played the banjo for 30 years and is a regular attendee at bluegrass festivals. He explained to the class that the banjo was "The Etch-a-Sketch" of musical instruments! I am not sure what to make of that, but I though it was a good line.

[doanepoole]

Around here, there is one style of player who gets ribbed even more than b@njo players...the Tony Rice clones. So much so that I can't believe they're not yet extinct.

I'll be honest, I love the sound of clawhammer playing. To be equeally honest, the sound of Skruggs-style playing gives me a terrible headache. I can understand and appreciate the musicallity of it, but it just gives me a headache, and I don't like headaches, hecne I don't like that style of b@njo pickin. Bad fiddle playing, too!

[jlb]

One thing I think all of us can admit is that the banjo is a MUCH more widely known instrument...maybe not in a good way, but infamous if not famous.

Don't believe me? #How many times have you heard, "Is that a fancy ukelele?" or "Is that a little guitar?"

Now, can you ever imagine anyone asking, "Is that a banjo?"

There may be a bit of a jealousy thing going on...nah...what am I talking about? #Banjo players are just dumb.

I love banjos. But this is actually a mandolin site so thats why we dont talk much about them!

[mandobsessed]

Banjo, accordion, bass guitar,viola...there is always an insrumet that gets picked on. I switched to mandolin because I got tired of all the bass player jokes.

[solerydr]

I dont know how to play a banjo but I do like having one in the band. One thing I like more than banjo, though, is making fun of banjo players. Is that really all that wrong?

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

Around here, there is one style of player who gets ribbed even more than b@njo players...the Tony Rice clones.
Tell you what . . .if I could play like Tony Rice, I'd accept all the ribbing people wanted to hand out!

[TommyK]

I play the 5-string and I accept the jokes...after all, I used to play the trombone...I bet a lot of banjo players used to play the trombone !
Someone montioned tuning problems...that is a real issue. I think one contributing factor might be the price of good banjos and the fact that there may be many pickers using entry level instruments. I had an old Kay...it was almost impossible to keep in tune. My Gibson RB-250 stays in tune very well. Becasue of all of the overtones produced, it is very obvious when the banjo is out of tune and since it is very easily heard, it is very noticable when the banjo is not tuned. Of course, all good musicans realize when their instrument is not properly tuned.
I know that I do not consider myself a serious musician. I do it for fun and relaxation. That is why I took up the banjo. It seems like the mandolin and mandolin players ar more "high brow" ( meant as a compliment)than the banjo folks...maybe it is the close realtion to the fiddle and violin. In my 30+ years of banjo playing, I have actually met very few banjo pickers. Most of the ones I have met were very good musicians and very much a pleasure to jam with. They knew a lot of tunes, played at appropriate levels and all around good guys. I don't mind the jokes because I think the instrument tends to draw fun-loving types with good sense of humor....
I am now very glad to be a new mando player !
I've never banjoed, but I know how they'r built. I have a theory to run passed you guys:
Does the fact that the skin head is suseptible to humidity changes have anything to do with the 'jo going out of tune? By my reckoning, if the humidity level changes such that the skin head tension changes, wouldn't this, necessarily change the tuning? Some have said their newer 'jos stay tuned better. Is it because they have synthetic heads?
Here I go again, but at Frets.com Frank Ford has a pic of an old time banjo head dehumidifier. It's simply two C5 christmas tree lights clamped to the spreader bars and a cord. It might look funnier, or funkier, than all get out, but He says it will work. My guess is it could be lit during a performance to keep the skin head warm enough to drive moisture out. Gives new meaning to an 'Electric' Banjo.

[JGWoods]

Why is the banjo so hard to keep in tune?
Mostly it is the head, you tighten one string and the bridge pushes down a little deeper into the quite flexible banjo head, and all the other strings go a little flat, so you tighten them up and the bridge is deeper still, then you go 'round one more time, maybe twice, and you can get everything used to the new spot.

Add to that a bridge that is usually not placed correctly, and not sufficiently compensated to intonate correctly at best, and you have a lot of tuning going on.

The notes may be out of tune, but at least they don't ring for long...

I don't hear many mandolins in tune either.


best
gw

[pathfinder]

OK, here's the deal on the 'five-string'. #They're a 'high maintenance' instrument. #Period.

I don't discount your theory about the skin. #But as a banjo player for 30 years, you're on the wrong track. #A '5 string' goes out of tune for three reasons. #

Firstly, because it's neck is long and slender, and more susceptible to temperature changes.

Secondly, because the string tension is so low. #Nothing like a mandolin. #You can push a banjo string until it's almost off the board and it won't quit. #But it will go out of tune because -- well-- strings stretch if you're strong enough to stretch 'em to get that wild effect the other instuments can't get (with their higher string tension).

And thirdly, because the neck is bolted onto the body. It's not 'dovetailed' and glued like many mandos. # From time to time, a banjo's bolts need to be tightened.

If you want proof of what I'm talking about, just listen to Doug Dillard and how he can 'flatten' or 'sharpen' the sound by pushing -- or pulling -- against the back of the peghead with his left hand. You can't do that with a mandolin, a fiddle, an upright bass or a guitar. #The closest that an electric guitar player gets to this effect is through a 'B bender' which actually tightens the 'B' string through the guitar's shoulder strap!

It's just the nature of the five-string banjo, and God Bless them that play 'em because they're the most dedicated and patient musicians on the planet. #And if there's a rumour that (like Earl Skruggs) all banjo players use capos, I'd invite them to listen to and watch a master like Don Reno who never used a capo on stage.

Or listen to Ralph Stanley, who could pick (carve) as close to a banjo bridge (without being on top of it) as I ever heard. #

To summarize, the five-string banjo is the poster child of "high maintenance" and a bitch to learn to play properly. #

But a bluegrass ensemble wouldn't be bluegrass without it. #Just remember the old maxim: #if the banjo player ain't sweatin', then you're not playing loud enough! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

I don't know any banjo players in bluegrass that still use skin heads. They're now made out of mylar.

[mandroid]

I'll namedrop Dick Wiseman,lives near portland Or, now fairly well educated musician and composer, like bela fleck, just happened to write for banjo.
banjo-mandolins were the result of off leash and low fence crossbreeding. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif