Tiny Moore's mandolin

[Scott Tichenor]

Not sure I know the story on this but seems I'd remembered that Tiny's original electric mandolin's whereabouts had been unknown at some point for a considerable amount of time. Maybe I'm not recalling that correctly. Anyone know the story?

According to this discussion on a steel guitar forum (http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=152818&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75) (about half way down the page), it still exists and someone knows where it is and who owns it. Rumor has it an article about it may appear somewhere in the near future. Sorry, not on the Cafe though, although I wish it was :).

[journeybear]

Geez, that's such an awful tease - Deke's, not yours. Did you try contacting him directly? He must be able to substantiate that statement, though possilby not willing. ;)

From another of his posts:

Also, it's inexcusable that Tiny Moore is represented by one postage-stamp sized album cover photo from the 1970's. At the time, I didn't know where Tiny's mandolin was. I have since learned where it is, if I had known that I would have driven there and photographed it myself!

Interesting mandolin discussion at Steel Guitar Forum here. (http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=156394&sid=7fac627ffdbaa6bae011fadc16513094)

[Scott Tichenor]

No, have no wish to really. I'll admit to knowing a bit more about all this but it needs to remain as is until the article comes out. Just fishing around to see if others really know where it is and who owns it and if that's old news. No idea. I think it's terrific its whereabouts are known and that possibly we'll be able to see photos of it, I hope. I think it's an important part of musical history.

[journeybear]

... I think it's an important part of musical history.

Absolutely! The first solidbody electric mandolin. It belongs in a museum - once its playing days are over, of course ... :mandosmiley:

If I'm reading right, this was the only one such Paul Bigsby built. Copies of it were made by Jay Roberts, and sold by Tiny at his Sacramento store.

[Rick Schmidlin]

I love Tiny and Jethro on Back to Back my favorite mandolin CD!

[Jim MacDaniel]

Funky looking mandolin, but it sure sounded sweet in Tiny's hands.

[MikeEdgerton]

Do any of the California Luthier's know Deke Dickerson? I'd never heard of before that article in the Fretboard Journal a while back. Michael, Rick or Paul may know him well enough to just ask the question. Then again, Tom or Darryl might simply know where it is.

[journeybear]

I'd seen the name before (it's a memorable name), but couldn't place it, until a lot of poking through his credits at his website turned up a production credit for a 1998 album by Big Sandy And The Fly-Rite Boys, whom I saw at a folk festival around that time. I assume I have that CD though surely it is right now in deep storage. I'll bet anything I don't remember the song he performed on the "Sideways" soundtrack, "Sad Songs," though I did see the movie. Judging by the number and variety of acts he has worked with, he's very much into the music and also well-respected.

[SternART]

I witnessed a wonderful Tiny Moore moment.......when David Grisman was playing with Stephane Grappelli at the Great American Music Hall in SF, Tiny sat in on Satin Doll.........this is back about 1979. If I'm not mistaken that particular cut, from this show, made it onto the Grisman/Grappelli Live album. Tiny was thrilled to play with Grappelli. We all have our personal heros!

[John Rosett]

[QUOTE=journeybear;672616]
If I'm reading right, this was the only one such Paul Bigsby built. Copies of it were made by Jay Roberts, and sold by Tiny at his Sacramento store.[/QUOTE

I've heard rumors of other Bigsby mandolins, but I've never seen one. Grady Martin had a Bigsby doubleneck with a 5-string mandolin neck. I remember reading that Hank Garland borrowed it and used it some of his 50's recordings.
I played a Roberts Tiny Moore mandolin in a band for 5 or 6 years, and it was the best electric mandolin I ever played. Here's a picture:

[Mike Bunting]

Rockabilly.
http://www.dekedickerson.com/

[floyd floar]

On my profile album there's a photo of a Roberts Tiny Moore I once owned- I wonder if a Cafe member owns it now.

[pglasse]

Tiny told me that he had his original Bigsby 5-string electric mandolin built in 1952. Though I sat with Tiny various times as he played that mandolin, I don't know and would love to hear more of the specifics on the instrument.

In about 1976 I bought one of the Roberts knockoffs from Tiny. For the time they sounded pretty good but they really weren't very well made instruments.

Tiny Moore, in addition to being an amazing hero of a musician, was one of the nicest people I've ever met. Here's a photo of him with a Roberts 5-string.

Let's all give Tiny a listen...

Paul Glasse
Austin Texas

[Larry S Sherman]

Let's all give Tiny a listen...Paul Glasse

I agree. There's a wonderful live recording that is a must-hear. The label says "Live at Larry Blake's, Berkeley, CA 12-20-1980".

Larry

[SternART]

Larry Blake's was right on Telegraph Ave, a few blocks from the Cal campus. I never saw Tiny there but saw saw some good music over the years, but I think it went Punk/New wave to stay "hip". Found this info:

Blakes on Telegraph is more than a restaurant, bar and nightclub - it is an East Bay entertainment mecca. The club was initially called Larry Blake's and was founded in 1940 by Larry Blake himself, who manned the helm for the better part of three decades. Having earned a reputation for providing good food in a comfortable, friendly atmosphere, Larry sold the business to a group of employees who envisioned expanding the occasional music venue into a full-fledged nightclub.

Blakes initially booked talented local jazz acts such as Ed Kelly, Pete and Sheila Escovedo and Kitty Margolis alongside national acts like the great Cal Tjader, Mose Allison, and Joaquin Lievano. Eventually blues was incorporated into the mix, and within a short period of time, Blakes became the premiere blues club in the entire Bay Area.

The list of blues luminaries who have enjoyed a run at Blakes includes some of the most talented artists in blues history: John Lee Hooker, Etta James, Lowell Fulson, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Otis Rush, Johnny Heartsman, Brownie McGee, Irma Thomas, and Johnny Adams. We've seen some impressive shoes walk through these doors.

World-famous blues guitarist Robert Cray, immediately recognized by then booking agent Tim Kaihatsu as a tremendous talent, was fostered throughout the years by Blakes. When the great Charles Brown decided to step back into the music world, his first comeback performance was at Blakes. Charlie Musselwhite, Lady Bianca, Tracy Nelson, Joe Louis Walker, Roy Rogers, Buckwheat Zydeco, Little Charlie and the Nightcats, Norton Buffalo, Rory Block, John Hammond, Boz Skaggs, Alvin Youngblood Hart, Amos Garrett, Maria Muldaur, Roomful of Blues, Elvin Bishop, and Greg Allman have all graced our stage and entertained our customers. For nearly four decades, Blakes was THE blues hotspot in the East Bay.

[Paul Kotapish]

I don't know what happened to that mandolin, but I have a wonderful memory of Tiny playing his Bigsby (don't know if it was the "original" original or not) at a big dance late one night at the fiddle contest over in Weiser, Idaho, in 1977 (or maybe '78).

There was a great string swing band comprising a jaw-dropping array of incredible fiddlers, guitarists, et al, who were playing mostly Texas-swing-style dance numbers of all sorts. On one of the waltzes there was a fabulous new sound coming from somewhere far from the bandstand, and the sound wove its way through the dance floor.

Suddenly, right there beside me and my dance partner (my old friend and flame, Cyd Smith), was Tiny Moore with his Bigsby plugged into a battery-powered Pignose amp on a strap slung over his shoulder. He was waltzing around the floor and serenading every couple with the loveliest and coolest mandolin lines ever. He had a huge smile on his face and he moved gracefully around the room without missing a note.

That was a dance to remember.

[Spruce]

That was a dance to remember.

That was my first Weiser, and it was indeed a memorable week...

I also met Jay Roberts at Weiser one year, and he was lugging some electrics that he made as I remember...

Really nice guy, and as I understand it, has also disappeared a bit into the mists of time??
Anybody know whatever happened to Jay...?

Did he also go by "JC"?

[Curt Palm]

I sold a D-28 and bought an Eastman Mandolin at Skip's Music in Sacramento a couple of years ago, and Skip and I were talking Mandolins. He has quite a collection of vintage instruments. He took me in a back room and showed me a guitar once used by Bob Wills and an electric mandolin that Tiny Moore used (Skip used to help out Tiny and Bob at their music school when they were on tour). The mandolin I got to hold was a bigsby with the familiar bigsby headstock and was blonde or cream colored, if I remember correctly. I don't know if it was Tiny's original, but it was pretty cool to see it.

Sacramento is a bit of a backwater for acoustic music, so it was really fun to find out about a little of its musical history.

[Mike Bunting]

Suddenly, right there beside me and my dance partner (my old friend and flame, Cyd Smith), was Tiny Moore with his Bigsby plugged into a battery-powered Pignose amp on a strap slung over his shoulder. He was waltzing around the floor and serenading every couple with the loveliest and coolest mandolin lines ever. He had a huge smile on his face and he moved gracefully around the room without missing a note.

That was a dance to remember.
That is an image of Tiny Moore that I can totally envision! When I hear his music I can hear his good humor shining through. I hear Stephane Grapelli's charming Gallic wit in his playing too. These guys put the play in playing music.

[Jon Hall]

Paul Buskirk said that he had Paul Bigsby make him a solid body, twin neck mandolin / mandola. He also said that Bigsby got really mad when he found out he had sold the instrument. Does anyone know if this instrument still exists?

[Don Stiernberg]

I kind of remember hearing there was another Bigsby like Tiny's, with the addition of the Bigsby vibrato arm...possibly an eight-string as well.

As usual, Paul Glasse and I "went to different schools together.."---I too had a Roberts five string
which I purchased directly from Tiny. I mention this so as to echo Paul's sentiments--Tiny was the greatest, nicest guy, in addition to his renowned artistry. Along with my mandolin he sent a cassette of himself jamming on standards which kept me busy for quite a while. When Merle Haggard came to town I went back to say hi to Tiny, who introduced me to Merle, who said "I thought I heard someone cheering after every mandolin solo, that must have been you!" In actuality, it was the whole crowd---this was the early days of video screens at large concerts, and whenever Tiny stood up to solo, he was on the screen, where his spirit and swing were easy to behold. From the first two or three notes of every solo, the place went nuts!

For those of you new to Tiny's work, besides Back to Back on Acoustic Disc there's Tiny Moore Music on Kaleidescope which may be hard to find, and Merle Haggard's "A Tribute to the Best Damn Fiddler in the World", originally on Capitol, now on Koch as a CD. It was that one, made about 1972 I think, that got me digging Tiny's playing. The Bob Wills "Tiffany Transcriptions" re-issues came a little later, and luckily a friend had some of the Wills 78's like Osage Stomp..

I'm not sure if Dix Bruce has any copies left, but I know he did a great piece on Tiny for Mandolin World News. I think it's high time for an updated retrospective. Paul, do you have any transcriptions lying around??

Another legend I heard was that a young Glen Campbell, not knowing that Tiny was using an electric mandolin on the Wills recordings, memorized his solos and could play them on his guitar. That would be a chops developer if true!

I always loved how the mandolin concept always shone through in Tiny's playing, and how his playing was always energized, cheerful, hot, and swinging.

[mtucker]

Gotta love some of Bigsby's creations and historical contribution.

[SternART]

Is it true that Tiny passed away at a gig.....on stage......soloing?
If so.........what a way to swing on outta here.......

[Jim MacDaniel]

BTW, anyone know how Tiny tuned that thing? CGDAE perhaps, or did he do something different with the lowest string (e.g., DGDAE, to avoid sloppy C syndrome, or to aid in chording)?

[delsbrother]

Get this book (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49686&highlight=bigsby+book). Lots of pix.

[pglasse]

First off, Tiny tuned his mandolin CGDAE. He used Black Diamond brand mandolin strings and a Black Diamond brand guitar low E string for his mandolin low C. These, as I recall, claimed to be silver plated. I tried them on my Roberts 5-string. They did indeed help get Tiny's distinctive tone but I hated the strings and they seemed to pretty much fall apart with very little playing.

Don, you brought back some great memories. Yes, we followed such similar paths.

A few Tiny related memories...

The first time I met Buck White (in the early 1970's) I asked him advice for picking up swing on the mandolin. He said "Listen to Tiny Moore" and proceeded to play several of Tiny's Texas Playboys solos from memory.

Yes, Don, the Glen Campbell story is true. Tiny told me that one of the finest compliments he ever received came when he taped the NBC special "Fifty Years of Country Music" with Merle Haggardhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbTJ8gDAvn8. Campbell was on the same show (doing, as I recall, a duet with Ray Charles of Bye Bye Love) and specifically hunted down Tiny on the set. Campbell brought Tiny to his dressing room and proceeded to play Tiny some of Tiny's mandolin solos from the Wills days. He told Tiny that those things had driven him nuts trying to learn -- amazing that he could still remember them. Years later I saw Campbell do a very slick medley-filled show at an Austin Texas rodeo. In the middle of a brief medley-tribute to Wills he fleetingly quoted some Tiny licks.

In perhaps 1978 or '79, as part of a very rickety tour, I ended up with an off-week in the Bay area. I phoned Tiny in Sacramento and asked if we could get together for a lesson. He had a break from his current gig with Merle Haggard and the Strangers and agreed to meet -- said he'd pick me up at the bus station in Sacramento. Tiny showed up to meet me wearing his blue monogrammed Strangers band windbreaker. We strapped my Roberts 5-string and my Gibson A-50 to the luggage rack of his motorcycle. He told me to hold on and I rode through Sacramento holding onto Tiny's waist, hoping I didn't fall off, while reading "The Strangers" on his upper back in front of me. I wish I had a photo of that one.

All the best,

Paul Glasse
Austin Texs

[Steve G]

Ouote: "Is it true that Tiny passed away at a gig.....on stage......soloing?"

Came down the stage steps and collapsed is the way I heard it. I was at a fiddle contest where he was the featured entertainer one time in California. What a show he and his band played. Really nice guy too.

[Spruce]

Tiny showed up to meet me wearing his blue monogrammed Strangers band windbreaker. We strapped my Roberts 5-string and my Gibson A-50 to the luggage rack of his motorcycle. He told me to hold on and I rode through Sacramento holding onto Tiny's waist, hoping I didn't fall off, while reading "The Strangers" on his upper back in front of me. I wish I had a photo of that one.


Me too... ;)

[Ken Feil]

I learned to play from Tiny at his Sacramento music store on El Camino Avenue and got to see and play the Bigsby on several occasions. I live several miles from Skip's Music and I am reasonably certain that Skip has Tiny's mandolin.

Ken

[Ken Feil]

Also it is interesting to note that Tiny was an excellent violinist and played in some legitimate orchestras such as the California State Fair Orchestra. He also won the California State Fiddle Championship. He was one terrific musician who did pass away as I recall while performing in Jackpot, Nevada.

[djweiss]

This thread backs up what Ken states:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26810

[robboat]

That was my first Weiser, and it was indeed a memorable week...

I also met Jay Roberts at Weiser one year, and he was lugging some electrics that he made as I remember...

Really nice guy, and as I understand it, has also disappeared a bit into the mists of time??
Anybody know whatever happened to Jay...?

Did he also go by "JC"?

Jay C. Roberts is alive and well - I just spent a few days at his winter home in Yuma, Az. He still plays a bit (he has an incredibly sweet-sounding D-28 that puts mine to shame) and brought out a few of his older custom guitars, basses, lap steel, dobro, etc.
He's one of the nicest guys you could ever meet - and my mother (his long-time companion) agrees...

[Spruce]

Jay C. Roberts is alive and well - I just spent a few days at his winter home in Yuma, Az. He still plays a bit (he has an incredibly sweet-sounding D-28 that puts mine to shame) and brought out a few of his older custom guitars, basses, lap steel, dobro, etc.
He's one of the nicest guys you could ever meet - and my mother (his long-time companion) agrees...

Yes!!

Please say "hi" from Bruce at Orcas Island Tonewoods when you see him again...

Thanks for that.....

[mrmando]

Deke's article about Tiny (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57886) is out in the Feb. 2010 Vintage Guitar. Very cool piece and worth reading. Among the surprising revelations: Tiny's (1952) wasn't the first Bigsby mandolin; Buskirk's 10-string (1950) was. Eschol Cosby and Al Giddings also had electric mandolins built by Bigsby before Tiny got his. Also, Bigsby guitars and mandolins post-1949 are semi-hollow, not solid.

Don't know if that issue of the magazine is still on the racks, but often VG will put features like this on its Web site.

Cool to hear that Jay Roberts is still around, although I gather he must be retired from luthiery.

[Bigtuna]

I've always loved Tiny's playing, but I have never cared for his mandolin. I was at Barnes and Noble over the weekend and they still had several copies of the Vintage Guitar Magazine with the article about Tiny's mandolin.

[Dale Ludewig]

I just looked and as I suspected I do have a xerox copy of the MWN with the interview of Tiny. He's on the cover. Spring of 1978. Dix did the interview. What a TOC: in addition to the Tiny article is one by Dave McCarty profiling Jimmy Gadreau and another, an interview with John Monteleone by the Dawg. Ah, what days.

[mrmando]

I've always loved Tiny's playing, but I have never cared for his mandolin.
The looks, the tone, or ... ?

It is an odd-looking beast, one must admit.

[Bigtuna]

The looks, the tone, or ... ?

It is an odd-looking beast, one must admit.

Just the looks. Are there any recording of him playing acoustic?

[Jim Garber]

All I can re all of his playing was that he got some nice jazzy tone out of whatever he was playing -- prob his Roberts. After hearing him play the first year i met him at Ashokan, I ordered a black Roberts from him which i srtill have. It does have that old electric sound, very similar to my EM150 with the mini-Charlie Christian pickup, but cleaner.

I had a Vega 10 string acoustic I was selling and he fooled around with it some, saying that he was thinking of recording an all-acoustic album and maybe he could use something like that.

[Jerry Turberville]

I also learned to play at Tiny Moore music, but not from Tiny. Olen Dillingham was teaching then. Olen was a great mentor and good friend. Tiny would poke his head in now and again and say something like, "sounding real good in here." I do miss those days, our old friends and especially playing music. I had a Roberts Tiny Moore mandolin and dearly loved the sound. I believe the serial number was 1151, but can't remember exactly.
I ended up selling the Roberts to Skip, and have regretted it since. I'd like to get it back, but doubt I could afford it now.