Outdoor Recording

[aries753]

The mandolin orchestra that I play with has been asked to play a couple or outdoor events this summer.
We are not a very large group, 5 mandos, 2 OMs, a guitar or banjo depending on the tune and a bass guitar.
Outside in the open we probably won't carry very far so my question is, any suggestions on how to project better? :mandosmiley:
I was thinking of trying to mic us in general, also a few of us have pickups on our instruments that we could try and blend into what the microphones pickup.
A portable bandshell would be great if not for the size and the fact that they want a lot of money for them.
We are going to do a trial run at some point, just wondered if anyone had any ideas?

[foldedpath]

Have you scouted the venue yet? If you have some flexibility in choosing location, you'll get better projection outdoors if you can find a place with hard surface like pavement or tile, and try to play backed up against a concrete wall. Or even better, in a corner space between two walls that can act as acoustic reflectors.

If you have to play over a soft surface like grass and completely out in the open with no nearby reflective surfaces, then you'll probably want a PA for sound reinforcement. Unless, that is, we're talking about an "atmosphere" gig like playing a Renaissance fair or Civil War reenactment, where you wouldn't want the visible hardware.

You said you were thinking of mic'ing up the group... do you already have PA gear? If not, you might want to look into renting just for the day, preferably with a soundperson to run it. Then you can focus on the performance. If you're not used to playing the role of both PA sound guy and musician at the same time, it can be a bit stressful.

PS. the thread title says "recording"... are you planning to record also, or just looking for sound reinforcement ideas?

[aries753]

Thanks for the reply, I am the "sound guy" at Church so I have or can get the stuff we need. The guy that will run the soud for us is in the same position at his church. Except he has actually done some outdoor gigs before. Not mandolins or mando family instruments, more mainstream instruments like guitars and electric ones at that. LOL

The idea is really sound reinforcement but if the gear is there why not record it?
At this point all I know is one gig is a small town street festival and the other is at the local farmers market.

[foldedpath]

The idea is really sound reinforcement but if the gear is there why not record it?

Well, that opens up a huge can of worms. :)

If you can manage it, the best approach is to use an XLR splitter ahead of the PA mixer, so you can send separate mic/pickup signals to a multi-track recorder. Then you can do a mixdown later to balance and EQ the instruments separately from what you need for the PA. There are some 4 to 8 track standalone hard drive recorders that would work for this, and aren't too expensive.

If a splitter and multi-track recorder aren't available, then all you can do is tap a 2-track/stereo out from the mixer and hope for the best, using the stereo recorder of your choice (I like the Zoom H2, but there are other options). I've done that many times when there wasn't time or budget for a split-signal multi-track recording. Sometimes it works, and sometimes I really wish I'd had separate tracks for the individual elements in the mix. If the recording isn't super-important, it basically falls into the "why not?" category, since you have the mics set up anyway.

My personal feeling on all this, is that live performance and recording are best done separately, unless you're a major act with big-time gear and personnel to handle the details. I don't like having to futz with a separate set of gear for recording when I'm trying to get a good live sound mix. When recording, I like to have lots of time and low pressure for nailing as many takes as we need.

Your mileage may vary, etc. There's nothing wrong with recording a quick-'n-dirty stereo track from the PA mixer, and I'll admit that sometimes you can capture some magic that way, that wouldn't happen in a more formal recording situation.

[steve V. johnson]

As always good and wise counsel from foldedpath.

I have a little different perspective on this one...

First, make sure that the other church sound guy hears you before this concert. One of the banes of acoustic music amplified thru a PA is that 'sound guys' who do rock'n'roll (yes, even in church) have little or no concept of what an all-acoustic performance is and what it needs. You can -tell- 'em, but in my experience, they need to have an experiecne of it. Sometimes that works, but without it.... it can be rough.

I record a lot of stuff live to stereo, and sometimes the PA is helpful, sometimes not. If -all- the instruments are going thru the PA, either via an open mic or a pickup, then a stereo out (or a multi-track) can do. With a sound guy inexperienced with an all-acoustic performance there will likely by very dynamic changes in the mix as he figures it out.

For this I'd use a stereo mic in front of (and perhaps above) or two mics on a stereo arm on a stand, running into a stereo recorder of some sort.

A number of folks around here have Zooms, Edirols, various little portable recorders like that, so I often have the chance to use one in front of the ensemble (most of these things have their own mics inside, others can accept mic inputs, either stereo or two mics) and another recording the stereo mix on a line out from the mixer. I transfer them both into ProTools and see which takes work on which tunes. It's very rare to be able to combine them because of time/distance/phase differences, but it has happened. And there are folks who have been hit twice by lightning, too. :-)

When there's a PA and monitor speakers facing back at the players the placement of the mic/recorder is a bit trickier.

With either my Edirol R-09 or Zoom H2 in front of an acoustic ensemble I can usually get results that range between a fun snapshot of the event to something I can make into something to distribute.

But whether or not you figure out a good way to record the event, let that Other Church Sound Guy hear the ensemble -at least once, more if you can- before the event, please? :-)

I hope this is useful. Play on...

stv