The zero fret?

[Blip]

Hello. I've heard different things about zero frets. Some say they give higher action, some say they give lower action. Some say they give better and easier intonation, some say they do the opposite.

What is true?


because the mandola I'm planning on buying has one. (Can't test the mandola before buying since it's over the internet and none of the local stores carry the brand).

[Oliver R]

Hmm..
It' all depends on various factors I suppose.
If the Zero fret is levelled at the correct height the action can be smooth and low, if the placement of the fret is correct the intonation will be as good as anything else. That said if by some chance the zero fret is not accurate it would be very difficult to remedy.
I have two Bouzoukis (1 Fylde Octavious, 1 unknown builder) with a zero fret and I did have a Mandolin with one (fylde Octavious again).
These instruments are well built and very accurate so there are no intonation or fret height issues.
I did at first think that the zero fret gave the Bouzouki a more 'guitar' type sound when I only had the Fylde zouk to draw conclusions from but after getting the other (unknown build) up and running I found that this was not so, this one sounds like a 'Irish Bouzouki with lots of top end/mid range.(I like it a lot)
I think what made more difference was the fact that the Fylde is a 'pin bridge' instrument.

Anyhoo, way off topic there.
Zero frets are great if fitted and adjusted correctly.
Oliver

[Tim2723]

I'm not sure that's a question that can be easily answered. Since the zero fret is a built in feature, you really can't play an instrument with one then just remove it and compare. There are a lot of factors that effect playing characteristics, and I'm not sure how you'd isolate the effect of a zero fret reliably. I suppose that's why so many opinions are out there. Probably the best you could do is make general assumptions about a number of different instruments with and without them. But would that mean anything substantial? Not sure. I've played good instruments of both types, and bad ones too.

[Arto]

There has been threads about this before and vastly more experienced people than me have written theis experiences. But I´m pretty sure the final verdict is "it depends" - on how well the instrument has been built. Good usual nut and good zero fret work both fine, bad examples are bad. What I could not understand in your question was the zero fret would make a HIGHER action - if it does, then it´s truly badly made. The proper zero fret is as high as other frets, not higher.

There probably can be a real (slight) difference in sound consistency - with a zero fret, the sound difference between fretted and open strings is probably less. Whether this is a good or bad thing, depends on your taste and maybe on the music you like to play.

[Blip]

I heard, from the internet :P, that most zero frets were higher than the other frets so the strings could rest against it.


The mandola I'm buying is quite low end.

Though, the company has nearly 60 years of experience, so I guess they would know how to fit a zero fret, since they use it on all their mandolins/mandolas/bouzoukis.

So, I hope for acceptable intonation. My current mandolin has semi-bad intonation, but it doesn't bother me that much. Will change my bridge location and such when I feel like it. I accidentally moved it while changing strings.


High action will not bother me that much, I put my action on nearly the highest available with my bridge.

Low action, if it results in buzz, will bother me though.

[Cliff D]

I have a zero fret on my RISA. It is higher than the other frets, & possibly a little over height, but I can live with it. With a conventional nut it is fairly easy to deepen the slot with a file or knife, & should you go too deep you can splosh in some super glue & have another hack at it. Over-file a zero fret & you've had it!

In my younger days I hacked about nut slots on my guitars enthusiastically, but now I am a little more cautious. It does not seem to make much discernible difference after the first fret has been passed. My preference is for a conventional nut, but I would not refuse to purchase an instrument because it was built with a zero fret. As Tim observes, there are many factors one has to take into consideration.

[250sc]

"I heard, from the internet :P, that most zero frets were higher than the other frets so the strings could rest against it."

Think about it logically. The zero fret can be a smidgen higher than the rest of the frets but idealy it is exactly the same as all the others. It doesn't have to be higher to eliminate buzzes. If you put a capo behind the 3rd fret you don't get buzzes above that and the 3rd fret is the same hight as all the others.

A zero fret isn't a deal breaker. Just a different way of manufacturing that works just as well as the alternative.

[mandroid]

Fwiw, my Hodson Djangolin has zero fret , and is fine, .. it has a notched-fret atop the bridge, too.

a setup when you get what you are looking at from afar , would get the action where you prefer it.

.. If there is someone that is skilled at that service to visit, nearby.

[steve V. johnson]

Zero frets are more common among European builders than American builders. I've had several instruments with z-frets and the more I think about them, the better idea they seem. They remove the intonation function from the nut, allowing it to merely place and guide the strings, so that the nut material is of less importance since it doesn't have the job of transmitting the tone down the neck.

Since everyone in the world hasn't changed over to zero frets, it seems that it's indeed 'six of one, half-a-dozen of the other' and one design configuration isn't clearly better than the other.

For my nickel, a zero-fret doesn't give me any pause, in and of itself, when considering an instrument's positive or negative attributes.

stv

[Jack Peters]

I am having trouble getting the first 2 strings to stay tuned after changing strings. Any suggestions?

[250sc]

Jack. Does this have anything to do with zero frets or are you just hijacking the thread?

Either way, you haven't provided enough information to get any usefull suggestions.

[dulcillini]

I also play mountain dulcimer. Many mountain dulcimer builders use the zero fret because it takes some of the pressure off the nut. The nut becomes a guide for the strings off the headstock as they go over the zero fret. The main reason I like them on mountain dulcimers is that if you are a vigorous strummer, the zero frets reduce some sideways pressure on the slots in the nut and perhaps prevent wear. No other reason. I have seen and heard them both ways. I am not surprised at all that mandolin builders are using them now as well. As far as the sound, I am not sure my ear is good enough to detect a difference. If the nut is cut and slotted correctly, it should not make a difference in the action either. Mike

[man dough nollij]

Here's a picture of one from Frets.com. It isn't a mandolin, though. It's from one of those six stringers that like a ukulele, only bigger.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/JazzStyles/SelmerFix/SelmerFixViews/selmerfix05.jpg