If you like extraordinary things; concerning

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello,

Anybody seen a mandothing (mandohorn?) like this before?


Greetings,

Alex


PS. I wonder how it projects...

[Jim Garber]

I haven't seen a mandolin version of such a thing, but I own a Stroh recording violin with a similar contraption. This mandolin tho looks like it may not have the refinements of the Stroh intruments which were made in the UK in the 1920s. They were intended to focus the sound for early acoustic recordings.

Jim

[bolannta]

Modern Stroh violins (http://larkinthemorning.com//search.asp?t=ss&ss=stroh+&x=0&y=0) for sale.

[Jim Garber]

Attached is a scan of a set of Stroh intruments from the Roy Acuff Museum in Nashville, TN. These include a single string fiddle, two 4 string fiddles and a Hawaiian guitar. I believe that they also made ukuleles but i don;t recall a mandolin.

There are these type of instruments based on acoustic phonograph principles made today in Romania. I believe those are the ones sold by Lark in the Morning.

Jim

[Jim Garber]

Here is another one, a violin at the National Music Museum (http://www.usd.edu/smm/graese3.html) in South Dakota.

And here's the Strohukulele (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Museum/Ukulele/StroviolsUke/strohuke.html).

On a second look at the one you picture, Alex, it is possible that someone took a Stroh-Viol (or something similar) and converted it for use as a mandolin. Otherwise why would they build it with that shoulder piece whch would be more of a positioning device forthe player of a violin. Also, I have never seen a fancy fingerboard on a Stroh.

BTW is that something you own or want to own or something you just saw somewhere.

Jim

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello all,


I wonder if we will encounter a second mandolin like this?
Jim, I am not sure either, but it looks quite original (it also looks like there has been a 2nd smaller horn attached to the tin box). But if it´s been put together, it was done by someone who knew well what he was doing.

What you call the ´shoulder piece´ looks to me more like an metal armrest. Even a bit ornamentated like those we see on mandolins. But that could of course also be work of the converter.

But it is indeed difficult to say from photos if it´s a genuine example or not.
So let´s keep or eyes open for other horn mandolins.


I saw it at eBay France where it is still on auction. Nobody bidding (yet).
Here is the quick link to that page:

Objet eBay France (http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3702488172&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting)


Cheers,

Alex

[Jim Garber]

Alex:
Thanks for the link. I don't think this is a genuine Stroh and could have been built from scratch using a Stroviol as a model. The seller says, "Inscription :made by sayakoont tharrawdy". Strange spelling of a name -- I am not even sure of the nationality of that person tho of course it could be a mispelling.

Pardon my mis-describing the part: I meant by "shoulder piece" that small jutting metal part that approximates the upper treble bout of the violin. I was just musing that I wasn't sure how useful that would be on a mandolin whereas on a violin it would help with upper positions.

The second horn is called a monitor horn BTW and since the object of this instrument is to direct the sound outward away from the player, the second horn allows the player to hear what he/she is playing.

Jim

[etbarbaric]

One of these (perhaps this very instrument) sold at a French auction late last year. The location of this one in France makes me think it is probably the same instrument and not a second example.

It looks like a punch line.. and the answer to:

"What do you get when you cross a mandolin
with a trumpet?"

:-)

Eric

[Neil Gladd]

Stroh did make a mandolin, and somewhere I have a photocopy of a photocopy of their catalog. As soon as it turns up... This instrument on French eBay is the last thing I need, but I am so tempted. #I also want a Merrill aluminum mandolin.

[Jim Garber]

Eric
Perhaps the most prominent use of these Stroviols in contemporary pop music has been on recent CDs by Tom Waits. The woman who plays this instrument gets a tone that is a hybrid of trumpet and violin and is quite haunting. I can't quite do that with mine. In fact, I do take it out once in a while but it is rather unwieldy and tiring to play for #a long period of time.

Jim

[Jim Garber]

Stroh did make a mandolin, and somewhere I have a photocopy of a photocopy of their catalog. As soon as it turns up... This instrument on French eBay is the last thing I need, but I am so tempted. #I also want a Merrill aluminum mandolin.
Neil:
I have a feeling that this is not made by Stroh. As I said, I don't recall a Stroh having such a fancy fingerboard. I would be curious to see your copy catalog and compare. It sounds like this one might even be a more modern copy from eastern Europe.

You might contact the seller for more info -- it would be great if it were a decent playable instrument and you would be the man to have it-- or at least to keep it in our mandolin family.

Hey, get it and we can bring our Strohs (and a six pack of Stroh beer) to CMSA for some wild duets.

Jim

[etbarbaric]

Hi Jim,

I can imagine that the Stroh violin might be rather an ergonomic nightmare to play... Nonetheless, the look is entirely too cool. And Neil, as for the mandolin version... better you than I!!!

I've never heard a Stroh violin played but I have this idea that one would drag the bow across the string and something akin to the sound of an old cylinder recording would come out of the horn... :-)

No wait! I have it... Vivaldi's Concerto Con Molti Instrumenti. His instructions call for two "Violini in Tromba Marina"... we've never known quite what he meant... now we know!!! :-) :-) :-) :-)

Eric

[Neil Gladd]

A few years ago, I did a concert / recording session at the Edison Historic Site, the FIRST recording studio! We played some period tunes and recorded them with the 100 year old technology: wax cylinders. Here (http://www.neilgladd.com/EdisonTrip.html) are some photos of the session. You can see a Stroh violin, and me playing into a tin horn.

[Jim Garber]

Neil--
Great pics. I love the one of cutting the cylinder with the wax flying. But, what's with that electronic keyboard? They couldn't find a piano or a pump organ? It ruins the mood, IMHO.

Jim

[Neil Gladd]

Jim,

We were told they would have a piano there, and when we arrived an hour beforehand, there was no piano. Luckily, the keyboard player just happened to have that in his car. I thought it ruined the mood, too, but it's what we had.

[Jim Garber]

I figured there was a logical explanation. Ah, the woes of a piano player... at least we mandolinists have control over what we play, and the tuning thereof.

Jim

[Bob DeVellis]

"sayakoont tharrawdy" sounds like it might be a Thai name.

[Jim Garber]

Here is a good picture of a real Stroviol at the Bowes Museum. This one has the monitor horn. The large horn looks more finished and polished to me than the mandolin on eBay France.

Jim

[gilgamesh]

From memory only - didn't the Temperance Seven use a Stroh?

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello all,

View here if you like Aluminium instruments: a Hutchins 1895 aluminum roundback mandolin (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3713988434&category=10179#ebayphotohosting) has come up for auction at eBay´s.


Best,

Alex

[GBG]

Musical sausage grinders?

[Jim Garber]

I once had an aluminum-bowled mandolin by Merrill. But that one had the rest of the parts being standard: neck and top were all wood etc. There was some nice decorative engraving on the bowl.

But I certainly haven't seen an all-aluminum instrument.

Jim

[Alex Timmerman]

Interesting isn´t it? There are always new things to discover; it looks like it never stops # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .


Here another VERY interesting instrument that I found yesterday on eBay.

A "one of a kind" 5x2 strung Chris Knutsen.

Click here to view it´s front and back at the eBay Webpage. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3713770777&category=10179)


Best,

Alex

[Plamen Ivanov]

Hello,

Yes, the engravings are great. I`m still curious about the tone. Does anybody have an experience with aluminium mandolins? I personally liked also the information about the countries, where this model was patented.
The second one is also interesting. I have seen similare shapes, but the second hole is new to me. Isn`t the price to high anyway? I suppose it might be an unique one, but...?! What do you think?

Good luck!

[Jim Garber]

Alex:
I was trying to figure out what this thing was. The scale is 18 inches (457mm). I assume it is some sort of liuto-type or as we say 5-string octave mandola.

What is the measure for the scale of a liuto?

As to the Knutsen: we are not 100% sure that that is what it is but it is likely. The buyer is a colleague of Eugene's. He is a musician and a collector and player of the oddball instruments. Hie is Gregg Miner and is the proprietor of The Knutsen Archives (http://home.earthlink.net/~chrisknutsen/), among other things. He also has a page about mandolinettos.

BTW Gregg tells me that he knows of the existence of another 10 string instrument similar to the one he just won on eBay.

Jim

[Neil Gladd]

I've always wanted one of the Merrill mandolins, but the Hutchins seems to show up on ebay more often. The others I've seen were all painted brown, but I like this plain aluminum one better as the engravings are more visible. Must repeat mantra...

I have enough mandolins
I have enough mandolins
I have enough mandolins
I have enough mandolins

[Alex Timmerman]

Hi Jim,

I know Gregg and also that he is very fond of the instruments of Chris Knutsen. #So, some days ago when I found this interesting instrument on eBay #- what in my eyes is indeed a small size flat-back Knutsen Liuto Cantabilé - on eBay, I immediately forwarded the auction to him. He replied within seconds informing me that he liked it very much and was already bidding on it.

I think it´s great that his bidding has been succesful and that he is the new owner of it. #

Click here for a nice image with (among other instruments) some fine Knutsen´s played by (very) young and older players. # (http://home.earthlink.net/~chrisknutsen3/payne.htm)


Cheers,

Alex

[Eugene]

I admit, I have alsways found the Knutsen sense of line to be somehow a little "off." This 5-course piece looks a bit more graceful than the typical Knutsen (almost as graceful as the Larson Bros.' designs borrowed from Knutsen...almost). My hat's off to Gregg for this last bit of intriguing history added to his impressive stable.

[Alex Timmerman]

Absolutely Eugene,

But nice this butterfly scratch-plate on a Knutsen, don´t you think?
And indeed, hat´s off for Gregg that he reserved a nice place for it in his #Musical Instruments Museum! (http://home.earthlink.net/~minermusic/)!

Greetings,

Alex

[Yonkle]

We played a few tunes at "Purim" Services in our Synagogue,one member brought this fiddle/horn thing in.
It sounded a little crude! He said they made these this way to use in parades, so the sound would project towards the crowd, and they recorded music someway with these. Hmmm! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Jim Garber]

Check out the beginning of this thread to see other Stroh instruments.

Jim

[Alex Timmerman]

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=24403&item=3746633468&rd=1#ebayphotohosting" target="_blank">Hi all,

I thought let´s fresh up an old topic with this pluck-box. It is currently for sale at eBay Belgium... .. .</a>


Cheers,

Alex http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Eugene]

Yikes! Looks uncomfortable.

[Alex Timmerman]

Hi Eugene,

It´s made in Germany by the Meinel & Herold Firm and looks especially suitable for the ´between the legs guitar/mandolin footstool playing position´.


Best,

Alex

[danb]

Interesting. If you look at a diagram of a National or Doboro mandolin, the idea is similar, but instead of the horn the box reflects the tone out, more like a normal guitar.

[Bob A]

It's certainly the ultimate expression of the Gibson "point" concept. I'd pay 50 euros for it just to amaze my friends, except there seems no simple way to deal with the funds transfer or the language barrier.

But I need no more mandolins.
I need no more mandolins.
I need no more mandolins.

Phew. The spell has passed.

[Jim Garber]

That diamond mandolin looks more like the product of those lute-guitars. Sort of similar in construction. Gives a new definition to 3-point mandolin.

Jim

[Alex Timmerman]

Here something to think about at the E-Bay England Webpage....... (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3766997719&indexURL=1&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting)

Greetings.

Alex

[PhilGE]

Oh, my...

[Alex Timmerman]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Jim Garber]

Here something to think about at the E-Bay England Webpage....... (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3766997719&indexURL=1&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting)

Greetings.

Alex
The rumor is that you are replacing all those Emberghers in Het Consort with these. Oh, what a sound they will make, esp the banjo-mandocello and banjo-mandolone.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Jim

[Alex Timmerman]

Yeah, that was indeed the idea. But just some days back I discovered an unknown Embergher type...

And Jim, I am just flabberthegasted about it! It´s simply fantastic!! I have completely fallen for this type. It is the Modello ´Heavy metallico No. 1´.

Look....

[Alex Timmerman]

Here it is in it´s full glory!

[Alex Timmerman]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Eugene]

Speaking of unknown Embergher types, there is an absolutely bizarre mandolin carrying the Embergher label that I'll be inspecting come Wednesday. #More info as it unfolds.

[Jim Garber]

It is late and I have had too many rush jobs lately. On a positive note is the mandolin I saw by Luigi Hamburger.

Jim

[etbarbaric]

I can't let this go by without recognizing my friend Bill Bussman of Old Wave Mandolins and his "juicy" creations. Unfortunately, this one is a carved-back instrument... but the treatment would be wonderful applied to a "melon back" mandolin, don't you think? (yes, they really work!)

Bill Bussmann (http://www.zianet.com/bussmann/index.html) lives just up the road from me in Oblivion New Mexico :-)

Eric

ps - Bill is quite the character... check out his "candolins" as well...

[Alex Timmerman]

Jim Thanks! I had heard so many good things about this Luigi Hamburger, but never seen one!

I am sure it sounds warm & juicy http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Alex Timmerman]

and Eric, I´ll take Bill´s as the dessert!

[danb]

Wasn't there a bedpandolin on the home page here sometime in the last year or two?

[RSW]

Forgetting all the photocomposites, Alex... does that mandolin "el metallico" have burn marks on the back? I bet it would be great for roasting chestnuts or, in a pinch, popcorn... where do you ever find these things? Back to my packing for the midwest... cheers,

Richard

[Alex Timmerman]

Ha Richard!

I found the one I posted on E-bay a long time ago. It´s not a self made composition of some sort; it´s really meant to be some kind of a small ´pluck-thing´.

Best and take care on your long trip,

Alex

PS. Thanks very much for the parts. I am looking forward to the rest and of course to the score!

[bratsche]

Alex and Jim, thanks for some much needed laughs this morning! (Eric too, but I've seen the melondolin before.)

bratsche

[Alex Timmerman]

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=157&item=3768097165&rd=1" target="_blank">Hi there!

Not very good to carry on your back, but nice to inform your piano playing friends.

Here is The Schubert Mandolin-Piano! #

An instrument with different pedals to imitate the mandolin, the banjo, the zither, the guitar, the autoharp and the Harp. Wooww!!!

Greetings,

Alex</a>

[Jim Garber]

Then, of course, there is the ubiquitous Mandolin-Guitar (http://www.usd.edu/smm/mandogui.html) which is neither mandolin or guitar but a zither variant.

Jim

[vkioulaphides]

Which, in turn, brings up the Marxophone, truly the instrument I ought to play, being a Marxist— a Groucho-Marxist, that is. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Alex Timmerman]

Haha http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Martin Jonas]

Then, of course, there is the ubiquitous Mandolin-Guitar (http://www.usd.edu/smm/mandogui.html) which is neither mandolin or guitar but a zither variant.
Speaking of which, there is a Waldzither (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3769313507&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) on Ebay, for which the reverse applies: it's not a zither at all, but a mandolin variant (four double courses and one single bass string). This one looks rather nice: it has a variant of the Portuguese tuners and, most untypically for German mandokin, seems to have an arched (carved?) top and back.

There's some lovely Waldzither playing on various albums by German folk band Liederjan ("Mädchen, Meister, Mönche" is my favourite).

Martin

[Jim Garber]

This outrageous 16 string mando-thing (http://www.oldmusicalinstruments.co.uk/instruments/instrument_detail.php?id=75&cat=PS) belongs on this thread. Must be a bear to tune and play.

Jim

[Eugene]

That is one seriously ill-conceived, but seemingly neatly executed instrument.

[vkioulaphides]

Oh, someone, please shoot me well before I acquire one of these! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif I find matching unison courses (yes, just FOUR of them) exasperating as it is...

[Jim Garber]

Oh, darn it, Victor, I was just wrapping your Mullinger Mando-Harp for your Groundhog Day present. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Jim

[vkioulaphides]

Why... thank you, Jim. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Jim Garber]

Sorry, Victor. I can't find a case for this one. I have to order one from Kingham.

Jim

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello,

For those violinists who like to start mandolinging...

See this strange bird here: (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7326060988&indexURL=1&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting)


Best,

Alex

[onthefiddle]

Alex @ June 05 2005, 18:18

For those violinists who like to start mandolinging...

See this strange bird here:


A friend of mine used to work in a shop in Melbourne (Australia), apparently one of the more common jobs there is to replace fretted fingerboards with unfretted ones - someone had made quite a living converting Violin fingerboards to fretted ones about a hundred years ago!

I don't like machine tuners on Violins and Violas - it makes them far too neck heavy - it's not such a problem on the upright members of the family. This Violin does appear to have been made with their use in mind though (it's unusual to see shoulders on a Violin pegbox).

The really bizarre things are those two holes in the back - just far enough in to ensure that they're not going through the top corner blocks. Are they related to the hole in the back of the pegbox somehow? That could be part of a very poor neck repair, but it wouldn't surprise me to find that something was intended to mount onto the instrument through those holes - what and why I'm not sure, perhaps a large and very intrusive shoulder rest? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Jon

[Jim Garber]

Hi Jon and Alex:
Sorry to inform you but this is not a violin at all, but is a bowed zither. Note the arch of the fretboard which is much more than a std violin. The holes in the back were intended to make contact on a tabletop to increase the acoustic volume. Someone did try to use this as a violin for playing under the chin because those legs have metal pins sticking out.

This was discussed on this thread (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=13;t=25134;hl=zither) recently.

Jim

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello Jim,

You are very right. Thanks for keeping me on the right track #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

How about this one: (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10177&item=7326891542&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

A Portugese banjo(mando)lin?

FUN!!


Alex

[Alex Timmerman]

Or this one................. (http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=7329252021&rd=1)

[Jim Garber]

I have seen many Lyon & Healy ukes with a round body like that, but it is amazing that this one also has a bent top. Not much roiom for the braces, tho.

Jim

[onthefiddle]

I think that I have a series of articles, published in the 50's, on making something like that. As you say Jim - it may be a Uke. It didn't have a cant anyway. I'll try and dig them out if anyone is interested (any closet Uke players here?) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Jon

[Jim Garber]

Here is a Lyon & Healy Camp Uke Junior (painting unoriginal). I also have a pristine example of a Camp Uke Senior. I am not a closet uker but one who actually has played in public. I will confess that at one point I even had more ukes than mandolins.

Jim

[Martin Jonas]

Going off-topic a bit, but Jim and any other closet and/or public uke players may enjoy this (http://www.ukuleledisco.com/jake?PHPSESSID=eec0c191d206c002df6c84e13f771714) video clip (broadband recommended -- this is a large file).

Martin
[Edit: broken link fixed, I hope]

[onthefiddle]

I found the articles this morning, and the instrument does indeed resemble your Lyon & Healy Camp Uke Junior, Jim - the author (F.W. Lowther) calls it a "Banjolette" however.

The instrument in the accompanying photo looks like it is in need of a neck reset from the outset - he does seem to intend it as a toy for a young child though, so it's not in the same league as your Uke Jim!

It could be a useful first introduction to instrument making I suppose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Jon

Wow! I just watched/listened to your link Martin - he certainly puts George Formby to shame (much as I do really love George Formby http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )!

[OdnamNool]

Salutations, music lovers!

(Notice my new and improved...er...mature ways...) #I'm on my good behavior... #Ya know, when Scott pulls my magic number for that beautiful mandolin... #Well, I sure don't want him to crumple it up, grumbling to himself... "Yeah, right... that'll be the day..." and then toss it in the trash... #PLUS...

I went to the button store recently, cuzz I needed to sew buttons on my pancho... #Well, I'm not much of a sewer, (how the heck do ya spell sew-ur without it looking like sewer???) #so I inquired upon someone there who indeed looked like a sew-er-lady. #She said, "yes, those buttons will work." #I said, "well... there's these other lady-bug buttons over there that are pretty cool..." #And her reply was, "Don't you think that's kind of juvinille?"

MY POINT! #Oh yeah... #Just to thank O.T.Fiddle for a recent...urrrr....cover. #Thanks!

[OdnamNool]

I'd also just like to say hello to Bratsche... I always enjoy your posts...

#Thanks.

I just read what I wrote... #I hope that I am not misunderstood... #The stupid stories that I sometimes relate here, are true stories! #I don't make them up!

[Alex Timmerman]

OK than, for personal use for those who like the real extraordinary rarities in our field...


Cheers,

Alex

(Photo © Alex Timmerman)

[Jim Garber]

OK than, for personal use for those who like the real extraordinary rarities in our field...


Cheers,

Alex

(Photo © Alex Timmerman)
Alex! Man, what is that thing? I have seen lots of butterflies inlaid on mandolins, but a mandolin shaped like a butterfly with woodchuck-shaped soundholes? Please what is it and where is it and who made it?

Jim

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello Jim!


This is one of the instruments I still regret not to have bought.

That was a long time ago.
I believe it had no label, but I will ask the person who offered it to me, if he knows where it is now. Or to whom he eventually sold it. I´ll let you know if I know more.

Crazy but Fun, isn´t it?!


Best,

Alex

[world_of_mandolins]

Although this is an old thread I have read all the comments. 16 strings mandolins still exist, I have one but however, 4 courses are nonsense:8369583696 83697

Alex Timerman, I understand that you regret not buying the butterfly mandolin, I have never seen one like this before!