minor to major

[billkilpatrick]

i don't know how to describe it but in some songs there's a distinct change from minor to major that feels like a breath of fresh air - a change of gears ... if anyone knows what i'm talking about, in technical terms, is there a name for this?

- bill

[wadeyankey]

Bill, is there a song you could use as an example?

[Jim MacDaniel]

Change in mode?

[Gary S]

Bill,
You may be refering to playing the relative major key. Example...Key of D minor relative major key F maj. It uses the same scale but starts on the different root note.

Changing from minor to major in the same key has a different but very nice feel as well. Example:Key of D minor to key of D major.

[billkilpatrick]

yes:

http://www.azchords.com/r/robinsonsmokey-tabs-5502/oohbabybaby-tabs-157394.html

if you're into this sort of music and only if you want to play it - in the 3rd verse there's a transition from D11 (good luck) to G that i find totally transcendent.

here's another:

http://www.911tabs.com/link/?4527904

... the B7 after the Am.

an e-friend on youtube asked if i knew the technical name for this change - if such a designation exists. maybe not the best of examples but as it's late here and i'm ready for bed ... if i can summon up something better in the morning, i'll post it.

graziemille - bill

[Bruce Clausen]

There are songs that go back and forth between minor and relative major (say A minor and C major) like Autumn Leaves, the theme from Black Orpheus, Fly me to the Moon. Then there are those wonderful tunes that alternate phrases in minor and major on the same tonic (A minor and A major): I Know Something About Love (Tell Him) by the Exciters, or the Beatles' I'll Be Back.

Don't know a name for this though.

BC

[Jim MacDaniel]

This thread reminded me of a version I heard once of My Love is in America, which is normally played in D major, but in this case they played the A & B parts in D minor for a couple of passes, and then switched to D major, providing a sort of emotional release from the darker minor key, as if the lovers were finally reunited. I am only a dabbler in theory, but it seems a similar concept to tension and release -- but those terms don't technically apply to mode changes like this does it?

[Bruce Clausen]

Minor key verse, chorus in relative major:

Delilah (the Tom Jones tune, not the movie theme)
Girl (Beatles)

Minor key verse, chorus in tonic major:

You don't have to say you love me

There must be lots of examples of both types. Either way, the major key gives a big lift. Your type, Jim, with the same material done in minor then major, sounds more like the effect we hear in classical minor-key symphonies, where the minor theme often comes back in major the last time. The sun breaking through the clouds.

BC

[mandolirius]

The B-part to Grisman's "Cedar Hill", has an interesting use of minor/major.

[Mike Bunting]

In the first example, in the key of G, the D is just the V chord resoving to the I (G). The previous Am7 and Bm7 are just the iim and iiim in the key of G.
In the second example the B7 is just a V resolving to the Im (Em)
http://www.torvund.net/guitar/index.php?page=Th_harmscale

[Phillip Tigue]

You could always do the John Hartford thing...

Take, "Tear Down the Grand Old Opry" where he plays out of D and then goes right into Dm for the chorus...

Not the relative, but interesting nonetheless...

[Jim Gallaher]

I produce a change in the "feel" of a song from "major" to "minor" by playing a major scale two frets below the key of the song.

Example: With a song in the key of A, I might improvise using the G major scale to give the song that "minor over major" feel. For the key of G, use the F major scale, etc.

A major scale = A - B - C# - D - E - F# - G#
G major scale = G - A - B - C - D - E - F#
A natural minor scale = A - B - C - D - E - F - G
A harmonic minor scale = A - B - C - D - E - F - G#
A melodic minor scale (ascending) = A - B - C - D - E - F# - G#
A melodic minor scale (descending) = A - B - C - D - E - F - G

Notice how the G major scale provides the "C" note that is found in the A minor scale (also an Am chord tone), while also supplying the "flatted 7th" note -- a "G" that is found in the A melodic minor scale (descending) and the A natural minor scale.

I'm no expert on these things, and I'm sure the other posters will correct my logic where I may have erred.

Give the G major scale a try while someone is playing the chords to a song in the key of A and see if this is what you've been hearing.

[billkilpatrick]

"sun breaking through the clouds" is exactly it - i'd have thought there would be a name for it.

[mandroid]

... the venerable St Louis Blues by W.C. Handy is using G Maj as the key it's written in ,
but uses Gm, Cm in the 2nd part, rather than GMaj, CMaj, as used in the verses ..

still uses dominant D7 in common for both parts , guess it's not really a relative minor shift.

[Tom C]

Lonesome Fiddle Blues
A part: Dm C Dm C Dm A7 Dm
B Part: G D E A
Dm C Dm C Dm A7 Dm

[EdHanrahan]

I don't think the OP was talking about RELATIVE major to minor: they generally use the same scale notes, and are somewhat common. Sorry I don't know the John Hartford song.

What I've always considered a TRUE major-to-minor key change (Am / A / Am / A) is Del Shannon's "Runaway":

First verse & instrumentals are in Am:
Am: As I walk...
G: I wonder...
F: With our...
E7: Strong.

Chorus is in A major (including IT'S relative minor chord):
A: I'm a-walking in the rain
F#m: Tears are falling...
A: Wishin' you ...
F#m: To end... etc. ...... And I
D: wonder, where she will
E7: stay, My little...
A, D, A, E7.

Back to A-minor key for instrumetal verse. Final fade-out is major A-D-A-D...

But no, I still don't have a technical term for it!

While on classic rock: The Ventures' instrumental "Walk Don't Run" is an example of the more common RELATIVE key change: intro & verse in Am (Am,G,F,E7), chorus starts in C major (C,G,C,F) until E7 shifts it back to Am.

Or not...

[Mike Bunting]

While the above are all true, the examples the OP gave are as I commented upon. Maybe they are not representative of what he was really asking.

[Bruce Clausen]

Right, Ed. Another one like Runaway is Things We Said Today (Beatles). It's a nifty effect.

BC