View Full Version : Note about new revised Classifieds

Scott Tichenor
Mar-31-2009, 5:44pm
The changes to the Classifieds that have been communicated the past few weeks are now in place. It's possible that some of you may have bookmarked specific custom views like just Used Mandolins. In the consolidation process, the decision was made to eliminate the New vs. Used distinction for reasons explained in my blog (but who reads those!?) :))

So if you hit your old Used Mandolins link, there won't be anything there to see, but all the instruments that were there this morning are still there, but just under a different category.

In the process of this, I streamlined the posting guidelines a bit and they are reproduced here. Those of you that use the Classifieds really should re-read these. They are mostly then same, but there are changes and it's important they're understood.

* You will post only items for sale, trade or in search of plucked, strummed or bowed string family instruments including mandolin, guitar, banjo, violin family, ukulele, resonator guitar, and general musical accessories (amps, tuners, mics, etc.). Examples of items not allowed: pianos, saxophones, the family washing machine, your 79 Chevy, etc. If in doubt about what is allowed, contact the site owner.
* Items appearing simultaneously here and on eBay for auction or at other auction sites, or referencing future eBay listings are not allowed.
* Unless your product is successfully sold or traded, you should allow the ad to auto-expire at the end of 21 days (the minimum ad length) or more before resubmitting. The practice of "bumping" an ad to the top by deleting and resubmitting it is not permitted.
* Refrain from adding links within ads pointing to the Cafe's message board where pictures of your items you are selling appear. Leave the message board for discussions, and the classifieds for selling and buying.
* Dealers are permitted to post ads and should clearly identify themselves as dealers.
* Multiple ads for one instrument/product are not permitted
* Trades in either direction involving non-stringed musical products are not allowed.
* Posting large groups of ads--five or more in a row--is not an appropriate use of this site, and no single individual or organization should ever have more than five ads posted at any one time. If you have many instruments, include them in one single ad.
* Solicitating donations is not allowed. Exceptions may be made but *must* be clear with the site owner first.
* We do not accept ads requesting sale or trade of bootleg tapes.
* HTML is not allowed inside an Ad description and is removed by the program software.
* The practice of "baiting", ie., advertising one price and then increasing the price upon inquiry will not be tolerated.
* We do not accept posts dealing in the sale or transfer of tortoise-shell products protected by the 1973 Endangered Species act. This includes picks made from antique shells.
* Ads posted looking for musicians to play in bands or for performances should be posted on the message board.
* Use of the classifieds ad posting or Reply feature to make "statements" (excessive overpricing with intent to mock, slander, expression of political and religious views, inappropriate sexual references, stalking, etc.) and other like minded ads or related replies will not be tolerated.
* No ad promoting activities that would be illegal under the laws of this State or Province, this Country, or of the state or country of domicile of the person posting the ad shall be allowed.
* The Mandolin Cafe reserves the ultimate discretion as to when ads are in violation of these guidelines.

Additional changes are coming. In general, Dan and I are working on some programming tools that we hope will enhance the experience. Long-term this may include the ability to search past ads that have been removed.

Also in the works soon will be a more formal statement regarding security. If you've been reading the news you should already know that cyber crime is increasing dramatically. We will implement additional steps and suggestions for users to help protect you, but ultimately, your safety is your most important responsibility.

Mar-31-2009, 6:20pm
I think the new set up is nice

Phil Goodson
Apr-01-2009, 6:33am
Is there any way to separate new from used mandolins? I've grown used to looking at the used instruments regularly, while the new ones are less interesting to me. Now I have to look at all.

Am I missing some way of organizing things?

Scott Tichenor
Apr-01-2009, 6:37am
I've explained that in the opening post.

Michael Eck
Apr-01-2009, 10:18am

Thanks for your diligent work on this.

As with many Cafe members, I am a multi-instrumentalist (although I prefer to refer to myself as an "instrument owner" due to my skill level on most of them) and the new format allows me the opportunity to buy, sell and trade within those realms while still keeping the board focused on those little eight-stringed things.

And, of course, thanks for all the general work you and the moderators do on the Cafe, too.

Stephen Lind
Apr-01-2009, 1:11pm
I just wanted to say thanks for this very generous thing you have done. Hopefully it will be appreciated by all.
This morning i noticed two "double posts". That is a very quick way to clutter up the classifieds. I've seen this happen on other forums and hopefully it won't be repeated here.


>>>Please READ and FOLLOW the RULES<<<

Eddie Sheehy
Apr-01-2009, 5:42pm
Great Job Scott. Now I guess I'll have a BAS, UAS, GAS and OAS (Others Acquisition Syndrome).

Apr-01-2009, 10:44pm
I think the changes are ok but one thing I'm noticing is that, due to increased volume of ads, the home page quicklist is no longer very useful. It changes so quickly that it's now an entirely different list each time I view it whereas before, I could see the last item I saw and just check out what was above it. Now you pretty much have to go to the big list everytime. BTW, this is not a complaint, just an observation.

Jean Fugal
Apr-01-2009, 11:00pm
I Don't Like It

Bill Snyder
Apr-01-2009, 11:05pm
I think the changes are ok but one thing I'm noticing is that, due to increased volume of ads, the home page quicklist is no longer very useful. It changes so quickly that it's now an entirely different list each time I view it whereas before, I could see the last item I saw and just check out what was above it. Now you pretty much have to go to the big list everytime. BTW, this is not a complaint, just an observation.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I suspect that after everyone that was already wanting to sell their guitar, banjo, violin, etc. gets them posted the rate of new listings will decrease greatly. It will probably still be quite a bit more than before, but it will settle down in a week or so.
I guess I am saying it is probably a case of "pent up supply" now having a new outlet.

Ben Lyman
Apr-01-2009, 11:35pm
I Don't Like It

I'm with you, anyone else opposed speak out. Nay!

man dough nollij
Apr-02-2009, 12:35am
I don't see much difference. Before I used to go to the "used" list. All the links above the last one I looked at would be a different color, so I could easily see which ones were new. Same thing now, but used and new are merged. There are so few "new" ads that I don't think it changed much.

I have noticed ads to trade in the mandolins, and offers of instrument plans and stuff that wouldn't ordinarily be in there. I would think that those should have gone in "trades" and "accessories". Eh?

No complaints with the new format. I noticed that there's no "Banjos wanted" category. I guess that goes without saying... :grin:

Apr-02-2009, 12:53am
This is pure speculation on my part, but I suspect that after everyone that was already wanting to sell their guitar, banjo, violin, etc. gets them posted the rate of new listings will decrease greatly. It will probably still be quite a bit more than before, but it will settle down in a week or so.
I guess I am saying it is probably a case of "pent up supply" now having a new outlet.

You may be right but I'm a bit doubtful. The other effect I'm already noticing is in the message board, where threads with nothing to do with mandolins already popping up. This is going to be a problem for some of us, I think. I already find it difficult to keep up with all the postings on the message boards. Sometimes a thread will pop up that I've totally lost track of. It's a bit embarassing to see that someone has asked you a question which you never answered because you forgot about the thread.

I'm a member of another large site which has really gone downhill because there were too many message boards, too many categories. The dialouge has become too spread out and hard to keep on top of. People have begun posting less and less and I'm pretty sure that's the reason.

Apr-02-2009, 8:53am
I'm with you, anyone else opposed speak out. Nay!

I don't want to clutter up the thread with nay-saying, since this is obviously something the administration thought out carefully for quite awhile and had been much desired by many members.

I'm with you, though.

I don't want to look through banjo, guitar, uke, etc classifieds on a mandolin site. Even though I am also a multi-instrumentalist (though my "multi" instruments are not things you can sell here), I'd much rather have only mandolin-related instruments and accessories here and go somewhere like BanjoHangout or elsewhere if I'm interested in buying another type of instrument.

There just isn't enough variety of other instruments available for sale among mandolin players to really make it worth my time if I'm looking for, say, a banjo. Sure, I might find one or two here, but odds are I'm not going to find what I'm looking for and would do better elsewhere.

I'm not sure what the real appeal is for sellers, either, since most of us are here to talk about and buy up mandolins. If you wanted to list a banjo, wouldn't you rather do it somewhere where a bunch of banjo players hangout?

Specialization is what makes the world go 'round. It's unfathomable that the other instrument classifieds here will ever compete with e-retailers, craigslist, other instrument-specific boards, etc. The mando stuff was always top-notch, though. Don't see the need for anything else.

Oh well. Not a big deal.

Apr-02-2009, 9:20am
Thanks for opening up the classifieds to other instruments. I trust people here, and I don't trust eBay or a lot of the many guitar sites. Never been to banjohangout, but if I ever were in the market for a banjo (probably not in this lifetime), I'd look here.

Phil Goodson
Apr-04-2009, 6:00am
I'm really not trying to be negative, but I'm finding the mandolin classifieds MUCH less enjoyable and useful than in the past.
When I click on Mandolins, I get a jumble of Mandolins, Mandolin Accessories, Mandolin Wanted, Mandolin Trades. Everything mixed up in one category.

I think many of us like to see what used instruments other folks want to sell. We're not looking for new instruments or we would go to the luthier's website. We're not looking for accessories or trades or we would click on those things.

Again, I appreciate all that you do, but this new organization is very frustrating and I just can't wade through all the junk info every day.

Count me as one more vote for at least separating the Used Mandolins from all the other stuff. Please.

Bob DeVellis
Apr-04-2009, 5:45pm
I really like the change. There are obviously some listings I'll skip but that has always been the case. This now makes it easier for someone to trade across types, like trading a mandolin for a guitar, or vice versa. People interested in multiple instrument types can be reached in one location.

Patrick Sylvest
Apr-04-2009, 6:32pm
I don't care for it, but I'll get used to it.

G. Fisher
Apr-04-2009, 7:02pm
I was really hoping to was a April fools joke.

It wasn't.

I don't like it.

Apr-04-2009, 7:56pm
Scott T.--Have you noticed any unusual growth in Cafe membership since the new classifieds opened?

At this point I like the old better. I'll have to get use to the new classified format just like I get use to other innovations.

Sandy Beckler
Apr-05-2009, 5:07pm
I think everyone gravitated here for what it was....not what it would become.


Apr-05-2009, 5:39pm
I don't like the "new"...but not a real big deal though. Before, the "old" Classifieds seemed focused...it was neat to bop over to the MC Home Page and quickly review the latest mandolins and mandolin-related items for sale, wanted, and so on (before the latest classifieds were listed on the MC Home Page, I had my home page set to go to the MC Classifieds, "All Categories" in short order). It was like taking the pulse of the mando business a few times a day.

Now the Classifieds seem "cluttered", and the pulse-checking doesn't work in my mind (like trying to take a person's pulse in the middle of a construction zone). In short, it is no longer a fun middle-of-the-day "mandolin hit" to take a few seconds to see what mandolins and mando-related things are for sale, which mandolins folks are looking for, what various mandolins are selling for these days, and so forth.

I assume that the new format is good for a lot of MC members though, and I trust Scott's judgement in making the change for the greater good. For me though, I am simply going to stop visiting the classifieds so often--which probably is a good thing financially, as I have purchased a bunch of instruments and accessories there over the years.

Again, not a big deal overall, but I much prefer the previous mando-only policy...things were special then, now they are not so special.

Apr-05-2009, 5:40pm
I also have to say I like the old classifieds better. Otherwise I would navigate to the Multi-Instrumentalist Cafe. That said, I am totally appreciative of Scott's generosity. It's his site and his perogative.

Apr-05-2009, 9:00pm
Scott -- this may be wasting your time & mine, but I prefer the old-style classifieds -- just as I like the "old-style" mandolin music.

Chris Biorkman
Apr-05-2009, 9:16pm
I have to say that I REALLY don't like the new classifieds. I only play mandolin nowadays and I think that the snapshot on the main page is much less helpful than it previously was. There are other places to go to buy and sell guitars. The narrow focus on mandolins is what makes this site so great IMO, and some of that has gone away.

I used to look at the classifieds numerous times throughout the day, but since this change has taken effect, I've found myself not wanting to even look at the classifieds. It just seems cluttered.

I have liked all of the changes that I have seen on this site over the years, but this one is a step backward. If it ain't broke, don't fix it I guess.

No disrespect intended. Just offering my honest feedback. I still love the site and appreciate your effort to constantly improve it, Scott.

Apr-05-2009, 11:09pm
I know nobody asked me, but sorry Scott...I don't like it either. I liked it better the old way. Thanks for running a first-class forum.

Apr-05-2009, 11:17pm
I prefer the old style better also. I used to enjoy checking out the latest mandos for sale but now it's sort of like sifting through Craig's list...on a more selfish note ..as a small builder (mandolins) this is one of my main outlets for advertising. This site has been a tremendous help getting my business started...and I do appreciate it....I just hope the mando specific folks will continue to sift through the other stuff to finds us..

Apr-06-2009, 12:26am
Just a question: are electric guitar accessories permitted? Although I do play electric guitar (and happen to be looking for an effects unit), this might potentially add a large amount of traffic that is even further from the mandolin world to the site.

For example, sites like craigslist and kijiji are full of ads selling things like a 'Boss GX700'. I'd guess that most mandolin players have no idea (or interest) in what a GX700 is, let alone in buying one. I see that electric guitars and even (to my surprise) looping pedals are allowed, so maybe effects pedals are as well. Well, I happen to be in the market for a Boss ME50, so maybe one will appear here (and someday, I may plug an electric mando into it too)...

Bob Borzelleri
Apr-06-2009, 12:20pm
It might be helpful to distinguish among the various reasons folks might not like the new classifieds format.

For me, adding options for non-mando instruments is OK because I own non mando instruments. What is less desirable, in my view is the new need to sift through many listings that are probably never going to be of interest to many folks who frequent the Cafe for mando stuff exclusively. Distinguishing between used and new instruments for folks who have one class or the other in mind appears to be very desirable.

I guess clarinets are out.

Russ Jordan
Apr-06-2009, 12:31pm
Would it be possible to set the window on the homepage that shows
"Ten most recently posted Classified Ads of 457 total.", to only show
mandolin group?

Apr-06-2009, 12:34pm
I like the change. Thought currently not as instrument poor as other times,
I've always wished I could offer for trade one of my guitars toward a mandolin. I'm currently watching for a nice banjo for my brother.

Eddie Sheehy
Apr-06-2009, 3:19pm
I have to revist my earlier comment of thinking it was a change for the better. I no longer peruse the Classifieds - too cluttered in the mandolin section - my only real interest these days. Perhaps if the "old" mandolin sections were restored and guitars/banjos/violins/others all got lumped into Others... I really like the cross-referencing other ads by owner in each ad. I just wish my earlier ads weren't buried at the bottom of a list that's too tedious to go through...
Having said that, it's still the best site on the Internet, keep it up Scott.

Roger Skipper
Apr-06-2009, 7:04pm
I like the new format a lot. In fact, it's pulled me into being a registered user. I'm a builder of all the bluegrass instruments, and I write about a wide range of lutherie projects, and mandolins are just one facet of my interests. I've browsed the cafe quite often in the past, but now I never log onto the Internet without checking to see what's going on.

Roger Skipper

Apr-06-2009, 7:18pm
If it matters at all, I liked the mandolin specific classifieds. Thanks Scott, Dan, Jamie, et al. for hosting my favorite site on the internet.

D C Blood
Apr-06-2009, 8:29pm
Just on the off-chance that some of you hadn't noticed...you can go to the top of the classified section and click on your specific interest group...;)

Apr-06-2009, 8:57pm
Thumbs down for me too Scott. Perhaps you have been in Kansas too long. Maybe you could travel a little, get some fresh air?

Apr-06-2009, 9:10pm
After some initial doubts, I'm finding the new classified section to be fine. I don't use the short-list on the home page. I just go straight to the classified section and mandolin category. As for a rush of threads about non-mandolin related subjects, I think I was being a bit chicken little-ish. That doesn't seem to be happening. Although I am worried about a rash of basketball threads appearing :grin:

man dough nollij
Apr-06-2009, 9:17pm
Although I am worried about a rash of basketball threads appearing :grin:

Not to hijack, but what's a good basketball hat for a beginner? I'm not wanting to spend more than $5-- I can always upgrade later.


Scott Tichenor
Apr-06-2009, 9:55pm
I've had enough of this pity party. I have a basic rule that when I can no longer stomach my own message board, then that discussion ends.

You had your say. Here's mine.

I'm not here to run a popularity contest. If you don't like the Classifieds, you're welcome to find somewhere else to get your "entertainment" as some of you are calling it. It's a big internet and I just hate unhappy people. You can go elsewhere. It's OK.

For those of you with multiple current existing ads that are being critical, please remove your ads when you vacate the site. You know who you are. Sorry, I can't refund the money you paid to run those. Hope I haven't cramped your profit margins this week. Tried eBay?

For ten years I fended off guitars, banjos and every imaginable piece of musical equipment and more and I'm now done with that. The people selling items out there now are people that have frequented this site for years. They're welcome here. You can now trade your guitar for a mandolin, or vice versa. What a crime.

For those of you hurling insults trying to bait me out, I prefer you'd use your real name when you do that. Hiding behind anonymity is ~:> you know what.

I've done my time being harassed for not allowing other stringed instruments on the Classifieds. Appears I've traded one group of friends for a new batch. The internet sure is a swell place. :)

Finally, before one of you sends another nasty email ranting about why there is no mandolin link on the Classifieds, you really should look and see there's been one there from day one.

I've repeated this many times and am unafraid to do so again. If this site cramps your style, please leave and take the bad attitude with you. If you're waiting for me to change the Classifieds back, let me save you some wasted time. It isn't going to happen.

And please, pro or con--save it. I don't need to hear from you. This game has been replayed more times than I can count. I've been running this site since 1995 and the forum since 1998. Don't worry, I'll sleep just fine tonight either way and you should too.