BitterSweet Weber?

[Bob Andress]

I need a little help here from those of you that know a thing or two about Webers.

I was at a show this weekend and got a chance to test drive a Bitterroot. This thing felt so good in my hands. I must have walked to that booth about five times trying to figure out why I was so drawn to it. Comfortable and easy to play, like nothing else I've ever held. I currently have an Eastman 515 which has thin fret wire and a thin, deep V neck. I now know just how much I like the jumbo frets and have considered re fretting my Eastman (until I tried this Weber that is). Thinking back, I think the root had a more rounded neck, does that sound right to you all? The action seemed to be as low as everything else I've tried.

I don't know if it was the Matte finish on my palm, the frets, neck or a combination of them all but I fell in love, except for one thing: It sounded weak. I'm not sure if the strings were dead or the set up was off but there was no punch at all. No pop It sounded "nice" and woody I suppose but not loud at all. The guy in the booth didn't know much about it though. If it had sounded louder I might be telling you all about my new Weber right now.

So - is this nice, quite sound what the bitterroot is all about or might it just be the strings? Also, any idea what defining characteristics it has that is different from so many other mandos that failed to feel this good to me? And what other mandolins might have those features? I wish I lived closer to a mando store but I just don't.

Thanks folks.

[JEStanek]

The Weber neck is pretty different from the Eastman one. I had a Weber Beartooth that was very well set up but I didn't like th shape as I was more used to an Eastman's deep V and narrower board. I also would prefer larger frets on my Eastman (2 pointer) but like the neck profile. I like certain shoes because the way they fit let me walk all day. I like certain mandolins because the neck fits me best. Finding one that fits is a joy. You may have just found yours!

Sound is definately influenced by strings and gridge fit. Also, I think booths at an event are a tough place to really hear what the instrument can do. Did you have it played AT you, too?

Jamie

[Bob Andress]

I didn't have it played at me. Should have though. Everything else in the booth seemed to cut just fine.

Maybe it was the mahogany back that made it sound mellow?

At the same booth I also tried a Yellowstone, it was louder than the Root but didn't have that "feel" even tho the specs are the same (except for the finish?). It was amazing, I can't put my finger directly on it but nothing has felt that good to me, ever.

[JEStanek]

The mahogany would have toned it down to warmer a good bit too. I didn't think to ask the back wood as I thought only the older Galatins had mahog backs.

Jamie

[trevor]

The Bitterroot used to have mahogany b/s also.

[chasray]

I have a Bitterroot with mahogany back and Brekke bridge made in 02. It has always sounded good, but it gets better the more I pound on it. It probably would be louder with a maple back and traditional Brekke bridge, but I like the woody, mello sound. A Bridger I have sounds louder to me as I play it (oval hole), but the Bitterroot projects or cuts better out in front. I have had people play it back at me, and have played them for other people. They will sound different out in front. The Bitterroot is louder than I thought.

If this is a new Bitterroot, it probably has maple back and sides and the traditional Brekke bridge -- maybe. And tone bars, which also means it will take some playing on it to get better.

After saying all of that, how can you spend good, hard earned money if it sounds weak? My guess is that with a good setup, new strings and pounding on it for 6 months it would sound great, but how would you know otherwise?

[man dough nollij]

I don't think those are generally thought of to be quiet mandolins. Could just be some old strings or something on it. I have a Gallatin with a couple of upgrades (glossy finish, fancy maple back), and it's one of the loudest mandolins I've ever heard.

I have heard that that the mahogany backs make them sound more warm and mellow, but I wouldn't think that necessarily means quiet...:confused:

[dulcillini]

Slim:

I feel the same way. I have a Weber Yellowstone A and it sounds great and I don't know why. I traded in a nice Weber Aspen to buy it and it sounded real nice too--in fact I don't know why I traded it except Dennis had this sexy looking Yellowstone on his site that I could not get out of my head. I also have a Weber Bridger Mandola that sounds awesome. I think mine are the common maple and spruce type, but I really don't get too hung up on woods. I heard a mandolin recently built in England and made out of sycamore and it sounded terrific. Wood choice certainly is a factor, but sometimes, I think it might be a bit overrated. I have played Bitterroot models and they sound real nice.

I don't know how they do it, but the folks at Weber seem to have a very consistent system to build nice sounding instruments. From time to time, I hear instuments that sound better, but I have never heard a bad Weber--and you can't say that about many things in this world today.

Long answer to short question: If it feels good and sounds good to you, then go for it.

Mike

[Phil Goodson]

I had a Bitterroot mahogony a year or so ago. Played nicely, good tone and people across the room would comment on how loud it was.

[DerTiefster]

I understood the O.P.'s problem to be that everything was right Except The Volume. If he needs the volume, then he won't be happy unless he figures out that the string height was too low, or the soundbox was full of cellophane, or something else correctible was off. Strings and setup are two things I've heard can really cause volume changes. But I don't know personally.

good luck with your decision.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Bob - what was the string height (action) like ?. It's ease of playing may have been down to a really low action,something that won't get the max.power out of any Mandolin regardless of make.
Raising the strings by just a fraction can make a huge difference.My own Weber Fern didn't sound very loud until i raised the action by a 1/32" all round,then the tone & volume really came out.
Having said that,my recently aquired 2001 Lebeda "Special" has a low (5/64" at the 12th fret) action & it's the most powerful Mandolin i've played when playing chop chords. It's maybe not quite as 'refined' tonally as my Fern,but it BITES !,
Saska:grin:

[Bob Andress]

Thanks everyone. I'm going to call the shop that ran that booth and try to find as much info as I can on that particular mando. If it's something as correctable as the action, oh my... I found her. That shop is just a few hours from me so if they set it up there, I may give her another go and see if it was really true love or fleeting lust.

Thanks again!

[cedarhog]

I have a 2004 bitterroot and it is a keeper. It is one of the few mandolins that I lose myself when I play it. Strings and picks can change the sound dramatically. I have a couple times thought I would get another mandolin and when I compare my root to a potential mandolin....my root saves me money everytime. Its a great mandolin...throw some J75's on it and a 1.5mm wegen and enjoy your tone hog.

[Rob Powell]

[QUOTE=dulcillini;648185]I heard a mandolin recently built in England and made out of sycamore and it sounded terrific./QUOTE]

As a side note and not to hijack the thread, the mandolin you heard from England may have used "English Sycamore" which is actually in the maple family.

Dead strings, bridge placement and little or no playing time on it certainly would contribute to the volume issue. Mahogany can make it seem quieter to the player but not the audience.

I've played a few Bitterroots but they were all customized with Red Spruce and Maple. None of them had any volume issues after playing them for 15 or 20 minutes straight. That said, they all had good set-ups and decent strings.

[GTG]

I don't know. I'm going to differ from other posters on advice here. The feel of an instrument has to do with a number of things, including mass and neck shape (which you can't change easily) and setup variables (action, nut, truss rod, fret size, fret wear, etc.), which can easily be changed. Volume and tone are two aspects that people will pay THOUSANDS for in a nice instrument (people don't usually buy Loars for their playability). You can usually (not always) tweak an instrument that feels a bit tough to play to make it easier, but there are no guarantees with volume.

Now, there are pretty good chances that maybe getting the bridge refitted, some new strings, and some playing time will open up something as nice as a Weber Bitterroot - but then again maybe not! Maybe it's just a tight instrument. I'd try a few others out first, or ask the shop if you can pay for a setup on the instrument before buying it. There's no way I'd ever pay 4 digits for something that didn't sound at least decent right out of the box.

BTW, lots of pros play instruments with really low action and have no problem getting great tone and volume. I wouldn't count on much extra volume just from raising the action.

It sounds like you really want this to be a great instrument but a bit of patience might be wise here.

[Nick Triesch]

If this bitteroot does not sound a lot better after a setup and a string change...you need to pass on it no matter how great it feels in your hand. You are taking a huge chance. It may open up or not. Why not spend the time and money looking for a good sounding mandolin? The reason I am telling you this is I have made this mistake in past years. What you could end up with is a very pretty well made mandolin that can be very hard to sell. On the other side of the coin, one of the best mandolins(huge sound) I have ever played was a custom maple bitteroot at Buffalo Bros . But it sounded great brand new! Mandolins are all different. Nick