Advice on Cracked Neck

[magnetite]

As you have gathered from the tilte of the post, I have a mandolin with a crack. The crack is roughly parallel to the join between the head and neck and appears to be only on the head side of the join. The crack travels part way around the neck for about 1/3 of the neck circumference. There is also a short split perpendicular to the crack, travelling about 1/2 inch towards the head. On the opposite side of the neck, another, 1/2 inch-long hairline crack is parallel to, and about 1/4 inch away from the main crack. The second crack is also only on the head-side of the join. The angle of the head relative to the neck does not appear to have changed. It would cost close to $1000 USD to replace this instrument with a new one, so a repair may be worthwhile.
My questions are:

Is this something that could be easily repaired by an experienced luthier?
For those of you who have had repairs like this done before (or for those of you who have done the work for others), what would be a ballpark cost estimate?

Thanks

[Ivan Kelsall]

Have a look at Frank Ford's Frets.com site & you'll see a few pics.like the one here on various instruments that he's repaired. It can be done & often the repair can be stronger than the original wood.A trip to a good luthier or maybe an-email to Mr.Ford himself,along with the pic., would give you an idea as to the cost of such a repair,
Saska

[David Newton]

Hi Mag,
1. About as straight forward repair as there is, a repairmans dream.
2. The whole repair should be less than $100.

[Paul Hostetter]

I wouldn't be so sure it's so straightforward or simple as those cracked-off Gibson headstocks were. The only way to get good glue in there would be to break it all the way off - yuck. As it is, you can't see inside to know what's happening. Do the two longitudinal cracks evidence a reinforcing bar inside? If not, I think it's going to need one. I also wonder why the wood in the shaft of the neck gave like that, shearing across the grain. Unfinished cedar is what I think I'm seeing, and a headstock of a different wood - in general rather insubstantial wood. I'd want to see a lot more before I offered any possible remedy and cost estimate.

[Rick Turner]

I'd top off any basic repair with a "back strap overlay" of three to five layers of veneer that would cover and reinforce the break area.

[Paul Hostetter]

But not for less than $100.

[Rick Turner]

Correcto!

Under $100.00 and the repair is going to be obvious and may or may not last.

And Paul, your question of why it broke is a really good one. It shouldn't have unless the mando met with trauma.

[mandozilla]

Hey magnatite! Have you tried "Mighty Putty"...as seen on TV ? :))

Sure glad I don't have your problem...How the heck did it happen? :confused:

BTW, Welcome to the Cafe magnatite! :grin:

:mandosmiley:

[Michael Lewis]

How long has that crack been there? It looks like maybe for a while. Stuff gets in the crack and it doesn't glue too well. Like Paul mentioned, break it all the way off and clean it up for fresh glue. Not a pretty picture. Pretty costs a lot more.

[magnetite]

Thanks for the information. I don't know how the crack occurred. Perhaps the shipping box took a fall. I bought the mandolin from the classifieds here a couple of weeks ago and have been assurred that there was no crack when it was shipped. It was insured for damage and a USPS claim is underway, though I'm getting a bit of a run-around from the post office as far as the correct procedures go. It was shipped from the USA and I'm in Canada. The two postal services have greatly conflicting instructions regarding what needs to be done. Anyway, I'm going to see a local luthier about a quote to have it fixed.

[woodwizard]

It may be just me but that crack doesn't look like a fresh crack in your pic.

[Big Joe]

We do a lot of cracked/ broken necks. Yours should be pretty easy. If we can be of help, just pm me.

[Bob Wiegers]

It may be just me but that crack doesn't look like a fresh crack in your pic.

I'm far from an expert, but I agree

[Rick Turner]

Hmm, are we allowed to hustle repair work here?

Not that I care to...

[MikeEdgerton]

Hmm, are we allowed to hustle repair work here?

Not that I care to...

As long as you identify yourself it appears to be acceptable.

[Paul Hostetter]

Who would (or could) hustle work but not identify themselves?

[Jake Wildwood]

This is the kind of stuff that I hate to fix.

Like was said earlier, it's way easier if the thing's broken the whole way... at least then you know you can reglue it securely. That's a yucky kind of break, it really, really is.

[Rick Turner]

I have seen cracks like that fixed by first injecting in very hot water, closing the break and squeezing the water out and then injecting in hot hide glue. Worked great.

[MikeEdgerton]

Who would (or could) hustle work but not identify themselves?

Someone that was sending work to a company they owned without identifying themselves as the owner. For example, if a manufacturer had a person posting messages and suggesting folks buy their models without identifying themselves as the manufacturer or if a person suggested that someone go to a shop without identifying themselves as the owner of said shop. It sounds weird but that sort of thing happens and that's why Scott has the paragraph he has in the Posting Guidelines asking vendors to identify themselves.

[jim simpson]

I had a failing scarf joint on a LoPrinzi guitar that I once owned. I was able to close up the scarf fortunately. The glue held and it "looked pretty". The failure illustrated here is next to the scarf so I would guess an impact of some sort. Would it be possible to identify the mandolin?

[David Newton]

Aww, you guys are trying to scare mag.
Flood the crack area with hot glue, flex the crack open and shut so the glue gets sucked in, wipe off the neck and clamp it. 20 minutes total counting restringing, I'd take $100 for that!

[Bill Snyder]

I've got the "hot glue". :))
http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:f2NVqVHoGk5gbM:http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/post-gg100.jpg

Sorry David. I just couldn't resist.

[Paul Hostetter]

Aww, you guys are trying to scare mag.
Flood the crack area with hot glue, flex the crack open and shut so the glue gets sucked in, wipe off the neck and clamp it. 20 minutes total counting restringing, I'd take $100 for that!

I'll bet you would. And it would hold until the next warm day or slight impact. Quick and dirty just doesn't cut it with me - I end up with the results of such 'repairs' too often.

I am trying to scare Magnetite - I think he's bought a pig in a poke. And I think it's irresponsible of people to make light of that mess based on one little photo. Rick's thought about a backstrap is the only thing that could make a repair substantial, and it can't be done for $100 or less.

What little I can tell from that photo is that the cross-grain crack parallels the glue penetration of the scarf joint, which I find scary. Is the neck made of balsa? And what's going on with the parallel longitudinal cracks? If I'd opened this package and found this, I'd have sealed it right up and sent it back.

[Big Joe]

Paul is correct. Just putting glue in the crack and clamping will not likely give a long term repair. There are more than one way to handle a repair like that, but it will cost more than $100 to do it right. It certainly can be repaired, and can be done so it will last, but without having the instrument in hand, none of us can do much more than just speculate. Photos can be an asset in determining what is needed in a repair, but usually the hands on approach gives a much better way to determine what that particular damage needs to be fixed properly.

It can be done structurally sound and may leave a line or it can be done so it disappears. The difference is in how much the owner wants to spend on the cosmetic aspect of it. Just running glue in a crack will often fail and all too often makes it very difficult to redo the repair because the dried glue adds to the trash in the crack. That is much harder to get out so the crack can be properly put back together. The job can be done right the first time. It is not worth the extra expense to have it done wrong the first time and then have to have someone undo what was done wrong before being able to fix it right. That certainly adds extra cost to the job. Cheap is not always good!

[Dale Ludewig]

This looks to me like a lot of repairs: you get one chance to do it right. Blow it and it will never be right. I agree that it looks like it should be broken off all the way so you can see what's going on inside and clean it up. Then glue it properly. Running glue into the joint and clamping doesn't sound like a long lasting solution to me. I don't think the dark line around the edge of the break looks like a fresh crack. All advice given seems right to me. Cosmetics are going to be an issue. You might want to run a couple of dowels through before it's broken off and then pull them out so alignment won't be such an issue: glue tends to make breaks like this slide. I can't see the whole picture, but as much as I'd advise it, I can't see how you could reinforce it with veneers. I don't think it's going to be fixed properly for $100.

[kestrel]

If the edges of that break got worn that smooth, in shipment, somebody's hand had to be moving on it the whole time, and it must have been, at least, in shipment, months - maybe years. ;) All the quality and other detail in that photo is too good to have the crack appear that way, otherwise. I'd bet there's a lot of sweat and dead skin in there. Perhaps a DNA test is in order. :)

A "quick fix" on that one would be no fix at all.

Gene

[magnetite]

Thanks for all the advice. The instrument was built in 2007. The neck and peghead are both mahogony. It has a beautiful tone, plays well and is well worth repairing. I'm a bit reluctant to mention the brand, as it was made by a luthier who frequents this site and has, I'm sure, a well desereved good reputation. I bought it 2nd hand (with the undeclared crack) so I don't have the option to return it.
The (hot glue and clamp) repair was done by a luthier friend of mine for $20 (he also did a few other things to it for me, more on the setup side). The repair has held well and is almost invisible, but unfortunately a new crack has opened about a half inch further up the neck, almost on the peghead (actually, both cracks are on the peghead piece). The instrument has suffered no trauma in the mean time. There is a noticable two to three degree twist to the neck, so I'm wondering if both these cracks are the result of continuing movement in the neck - perhaps the stress was transferred to the second crack once the first one was repaired. I live in a wet climate (Vancouver), the instrument was built in a dry climate. The luthier who repaired it noticed the twist and compensated for it in the first repair, so the instrument plays well. The new crack appears to have remained stable for at least three months now and the instrument still plays well, with good intonation. I'm thinking I might just leave this crack alone for a while before the second repair. Thoughts anyone?

[Earl Gamage]

I think you ran into some very bad luck. I'm determined not to buy any instrument I can't see first, even though the majority of transactions go fine.

I'd be looking for another mandolin, or if you really like that one have someone replace the neck, maybe the original builder would want to do it.

[CES]

It's too cool to be able to sit here and listen to you guys talk shop, even when you prickle a bit.

I'll refrain from offering advice as the collective wisdom above far exceeds any I may add, but do hope the issue is resolved satisfactorily for you...I've been the victim of an online disaster, and I know the disappointment, anger, and eventually frustration that comes from having to deal with the fallout. (ebay purchase at issue for me...fortunately have found honest forthcoming folks in the classifieds here thus far).

Good luck, and sorry this has happened. (And, no, I'm not the seller :) )

EDIT: You posted before I got mine up...you may want to pm the luthier. Even if you don't have a warranty they may be willing to repair the instrument at a reasonable rate (ie, possibly even replace the neck and peghead given all the issues) to keep their reputation in good standing. They may not, but it never hurts to inquire...

[Rob Gerety]

This is one of my recurring nightmares.

[magnetite]

Thanks for all the comments. From now on, I too will never buy an instrument I have not seen yet. I don't have any evidence to suggest that the seller caused the problem, but there's plenty of evidence (backed up by the repair luthier) to say that the instrument was played after it cracked, and therefore, he knew what he was sending me. He tried to help me with the useless postal insurance claim afterwards, claiming that it must have happened in shipping (which doesn't explain the obvious wear on the first crack very well) but that might have been the plan all along - Shamefull.
Beware of "deals".
I'm now buiding a similar instrument.