Rigel G5 on eBay

[mrmando]

Any chance this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260379184093) is legit?

Zero-feedback seller, no reserve, cut-&-paste ad copy ... hm ...

So few G5s exist that someone's got to know more about this one...

[jefflester]

Looks like a unique headstock inlay.

[mrmando]

Not really -- most other G5s have something very similar on the headstock. It's unusual for a G5 not to have a pickguard, although there are a couple of photos of one in that condition at the Rigel site.

[jefflester]

Not really -- most other G5s have something very similar on the headstock.
:redface: Looks the same as the one on the Rigel webpage.

It is certainly an interesting and non-traditional inlay, I jumped in with a response without bothering to research whether other G5s were similar.

From TAMCO:
http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/images/nov08/rigel/mv_rigel_g5_head.jpg

From Ted:
http://jazzmando.com/BlueMandoGroup.jpg
http://jazzmando.com/G5_Fingerboard.jpg

[Paddydukes]

This does look a little fishy, you would think someone wouldn't end up with one of these unless they knew what they were looking for, and since there were less than 20 made...hmmm... I couldn't find any pictures other than these with the ebay listing where the G5 did not have a pickgaurd...odd... maybe there is a chance?

[atetone]

I was watching this one but I don't feel very adventurous today so I don't think I will bid.
It looks a little fishy but you never know,,, there is a possibility that it might be legit.
Too late to ask a bunch of questions too so I am out.

[Paddydukes]

5 or so hours to figure out how full of adventure i am feeling on a sunday!

[DerTiefster]

Well, it was fun to watch. Five bidders. two stopped at under $2k, one right at it. Two crept into $2k+ territory. Well, is it now PaddyDuke's? MrMando's? atetone's? It's not mine. I might have wanted it, but domestic harmony is preferable. I did add Rigels to my ff-hole list before the oval hole acquisition last week. I -did- notice the G5 before MrMando started this thread. The first bidder last week put in his bid after the thread started. He was the winner, too. He may be a poster here.

[mrmando]

I bid, but was outgunned at the last second. I sent the seller a bunch of questions and got no replies to any of them. Seller could just be an eBay neophyte who doesn't understand the need to communicate. Or it could be a fraudulent ad -- hard to tell. I wouldn't have sent any money to this seller until after having a phone conversation or two and getting some more photos.

[Jeff Chu]

it looks like the real deal. I have seem many different G5s, and it has all the right characteristics. It also looks like the one that Eric Robertson tried to sell months back on the classifieds.... Im pretty sure the mando in the picture is legit, as for the seller, who knows.

[Jeff Chu]

we really shoudl be putting all our energy and interest in this Rigel (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rigel-Resonator-Mandolin-VERY-RARE-Near-Mint_W0QQitemZ190295099873QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item190295099873&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1546|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50)

how cool is that, and at such a reasonable price!

[mrmando]

I have no doubt that it's a real G5, and it could well be Eric's G5. I'm just having my doubts about the validity of the transaction. If it IS legit, then someone got a screamin' deal. I had no idea how high the other bidder was willing to go ... the higher it went, the more stuff I would've had to sell to pay for it, and selling stuff takes time.

[mrmando]

we really shoudl be putting all our energy and interest in this Rigel (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rigel-Resonator-Mandolin-VERY-RARE-Near-Mint_W0QQitemZ190295099873QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item190295099873&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1546|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50)


I may take a swing at that one. I played the prototype Rigel reso and liked it bunches ... but wasn't quite as excited about the other couple that I've tried. There are very few of them, even fewer than G5s, I think. Peter Mix told me the resos were a pain in the butt to build. Or words to that effect.

[Jeff Chu]

mrmando, what is your experience with G5s? you like them? you dislike them?

[mrmando]

LOVE G5s. Any other questions?

[Jeff Chu]

thats all i needed to know. thanks!

[DerTiefster]

I think that the seller takes paypal. That leaves you with credit card protections if something doesn't get shipped or is "significantly different" from what was promised. What -I- noticed was the lack of information about what was being sold. Generic info only plus a few pics. Was the top coming unglued? are the inlays all loose and rattling about? Things like that. I also sent some questions about condition although bidding on it wasn't a realistic option for me. Like everyone else, I got no answers. From a legal standpoint, that might mean that delivery of pieces of a G5 might satisfy the seller's obligation, even if not the buyer's expectation. Lack of communication and info made me suspicious.

But it was fun to watch.

I also recently had someone wanting me to make an offer on some automotive parts without sending me photos from which to judge the condition. That made me nervous, too. It didn't happen, but could with pics.

[Paddydukes]

Well guys i am sorry to say that i didn't get it, i was one of the 2 that stopped just before 2k... I figured three rigels would be enough of a collection...oh well, I suppose its good to have a little fear of what the internet has to offer to keep the ole MAS in check every now and again, i wish the best to whoever it was that won (stole) that G5! Maybe its a cafe memeber...I hope it is...

[mrmando]

I think that the seller takes paypal. That leaves you with credit card protections if something doesn't get shipped or is "significantly different" from what was promised. What -I- noticed was the lack of information about what was being sold. Generic info only plus a few pics. Was the top coming unglued? are the inlays all loose and rattling about? Things like that. I also sent some questions about condition although bidding on it wasn't a realistic option for me. Like everyone else, I got no answers. From a legal standpoint, that might mean that delivery of pieces of a G5 might satisfy the seller's obligation, even if not the buyer's expectation.

IMHO PayPal's protections are overrated. I have twice opened disputes over items I paid for with PayPal but did not receive. In one case I got about half the money back; in the second I got less than 10% of it back. (Both of these were under $100, so it's not a huge loss, but still...) All in all, I've been stiffed 4x on eBay and once on Craig's List, but each time it was a minor transaction, so I guess I'm (somewhat) lucky.

Also, no, if the G5 arrives in pieces, I don't think the seller has met the legal obligation. The photos are part of how the instrument is represented to the buyer; if the instrument that arrives differs substantially from the photos, and the seller knew about it, then that's misrepresentation. Arriving in several pieces vs. one would qualify, methinks. Even so, if the G5 does need minor repairs, the buyer could have them done and still be way ahead of market price.

[atetone]

I didn't bid on the G5. My spidey senses were tingling.

[Jeff Chu]

i hope the economy hasnt gotten THAT bad... that is ridiculous. there must be some catch. well see i guess.

[AlanN]

Did not realize there were so few G5 mandolins made. I've played 2 (one was Eric's). Well made, strong sound. I liked the fingerboard feel.

[DerTiefster]

IMHO PayPal's protections are overrated. I have twice opened disputes over items I paid for with PayPal but did not receive. In one case I got about half the money back; in the second I got less than 10% of it back....What I thought was stronger than PayPal's protections (but might be mistaken) is the credit card company's protections. I don't know how deeply into your <$100 items the freight to and from cut, but for the mandolin it should not be more than a sum of $100 (5%). If the seller delivered 1) nothing, or 2) something rather substantially different, like a scarred-up piece of driftwood, then it was my -belief- that the credit card company would follow up with a fraud action.

I was wrong once before, if I'm not mistaken.

[Mandobar]

i emailed the seller twice asking if i could come and pick the instrument up...........no reply so i didn't even bother to bid.

[DerTiefster]

Well, it -could- still happen, but the non-response across the board would seem to confirm that the auction was a non-auction. Vapor. Lots of scenario, precious little info. I hope the "buyer" is not as trusting in credit card protections as I would have been.

[Paddydukes]

I hope the buyer does read this and chime in, I am curious to know what happens. Seems like the "too good to be true scenario", but i didn't find any pictures of the G5 without a pickgaurd anywhere out there, so its definately a real G5...I hope its a legit auction, if so and it all works out someone got a heck of a deal!

[DerTiefster]

Any possibility the zero-feedback seller account was expressly a market research tool to gauge the price such a mandolin would support? There's only the listing cost for the account owner, and maybe that was an acceptable price.

[mrmando]

Well, that's possible but it's a pretty stupid way to do research. The instrument would have attracted more bids, and likely gone quite a bit higher, if the seller had done anything to assure potential buyers that it was a legitimate auction. As you can see from our small sampling here, people chose not to bid, or not to bid very much, because they doubted the authenticity of the sale. So if it was done for research, the results of said research will be badly skewed.

Unless, of course, the object of the research is to find out how much money people will throw at a high-value item that has zero customer support behind it.

[Pete Braccio]

Hey all,

I'm the buyer and, yes, it looks like a fraud. I exchanged a couple of emails with the seller before the auction closed, so I was not especially paranoid about the no feed back. That all changed after I won the auction.

I sent in my PayPal payment and the seller didn't pick it up. We then went back and forth over the next couple of days where he tried to get me to send the money using MoneyGram (a payment method that eBay explicitly cautions against). I was still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (since he was able to see when I canceled the PayPal payment), but I wanted to talk to him before I sent any money. The phone call put the nail in the coffin on the deal.

He called me from an unlisted number, had an Italian name but spoke with a Spanish accent, wouldn't tell me what part of New York he was in (Long Island according to "his" address), and tried to convince me that MoneyGram was supported by eBay even after I told him that eBay specifically says not to use it. Last, but not least, by the time I got back to my office I had a spoofed email from ebay@trustsafetypayments.com saying that everything was cool. Too bad the email was send from an untraceable AOL IP address.

*sigh*

On the bright side, my wife won't be kicking my a** for bringing home another mandolin.

Pete

P.S. I sent in a fraud report to eBay on this. Waiting for a reply back from them.

[pabear]

pete,

Sorry to hear the deal fell thru; looked like a bargain; on a brighter note glad you didn't get hoaxed and taken..... moneygram you would have never seen moneyback hardest form of trackability as well.

[mrmando]

Wonder why only Pete got his emails returned. Maybe the seller didn't bother with me because I asked pointed questions he couldn't have answered without actually having the instrument in hand.

I learned that after an auction closes, you can get the seller's phone number from eBay. Again, I would never have sent this seller any money without a phone conversation first. Pete, I'd say you're lucky your PayPal payment wasn't picked up.

So are those, perhaps, photos of Eric Robertson's G-5, taken from an old ad?

[DerTiefster]

The paypal payment probably has to have some tracing features associated with it. They don't cough up cold hard cash, do they? Or mail out checks? They want to know -who- you are, else -they- could be readily used to launder funds and risk getting shut down. This guy wanted NO tracing going on after the fact.

It would be interesting to -try- to get the MoneyGram folks to participate in a few sting operations. This one had every possibility of turning into one from time of posting of the auction.

[mtucker]

I learned that after an auction closes, you can get the seller's phone number from eBay.

...and their physical address also.

all true .. but a scam artist can set up an account, falsifying address, telephone number etc. and unfortunately ebay does not verify.

[Pete Braccio]

Hi all,

Well, we're now into chapter two of this. I just got home from work and found an email sent though eBay giving me a Second Chance on this item since the original winner (which would be me) failed to buy it. Of course, the NEW email for the "seller" is different than the original crook's email address. The email was also traced to Israel, which is kinda unusual since the mandolin is in New York. ;^)

Pete

[Paddydukes]

Seems to keep going... Too bad really, that would be a nice mando to have, eventhough it seems whoever owns the "real" one in the picture has no ambitions of selling...do we know who that G5 belongs to?