should i go weber?

[nate w]

I have been playing a Kentucky 675 for the past seven years, and I can tell it is really time for a more professional instrument. I like what I am hearing from the world of Weber, due to funds I would have to go with the Gallitan model, however I have had a salesman trying to put me in a Collings A style. Either way I am going to have to order without having ever played either model. Come on cafe' lend your ever loving advice.

[Dave Schimming]

Don't own either one but I did try out Webers & Collings a few years ago at Mass Street. I really liked the tone & playability of the Collings A model, although I wound up buying a Summit F100S (with no regrets).

[Rick Schmidlin]

Collings is great, Weber can be the same but I have only played a few.

[Wesley]

Nate - It's all going to boil down to which mandolin feels better in your hands, sounds best in your ears, and can be paid for by the money in your wallet. No amount of advice we give you can compensate for that.

Most people rave about Collings mandolins - because they are very fine mandolins. But I've never played one that felt right in my hands { however I own two Collings guitars }. That doesn't mean they aren't great instruments. You'll find just as many people that will say the same thing about Webers. I love my Weber Fern. Like the lady said that kissed the cow - Everybodies got their own tastes.

[mandroid]

Neck shape matters , I really like the slim ones , [though I can work with the classic V necks on My A4]..
shouldn't cost more . you don't have to buy off the peg in the shop order what you need.
Call or Email Weber and see if they will make a shape of neck you like,

on an instrument body (perhaps with with modest trimmings ) in a price range you can afford.

even the ones without binding and sunbursted finish sound pretty darned good.



mandolin :mandosmiley: ######

[Capt. E]

I love my Weber "Bighorn". I have played near a dozen different models and they are all great. I'll say the same about Collings. I am now considering a Collings MF oval hole vs a Weber Vintage A oval. Both are fabulous but with somewhat different sounds to them. The Collings seems a touch brighter, the Weber a bit woodier. Actually, I love the Bighorn f hole model so much I might just have to have a Bighorn oval hole instead. You won't be disappointed with a Weber.

[Dan_dolin]

Nate....see, hear and touch...and not necessarily in that order. If you're investing in "the mandolin" that you will have to live with for awhile, your time investment to find the right feel, sound and eye pleasure will be worth all your effort. Don't buy something you haven't placed in your hands and made comparisons with something different. Have fun looking!...you'll meet some great folks along the way!.....

[johnwalser]

I've played a number of REALLY good Collings. I once owned a Weber and have played a great many more including everything they brought to NAMM last year. I have yet to play a Weber nearly as good as what the Collings folks are capable of making. This past year I have been plaing a custom built Breedlove that pushes my happy button. We're all different in what we want from an instrument.
John

[lespaul_79]

My Collings MT (the A model) is a monster. 10 months later and having played a bunch of others at jams, I find it kinda tough to play.... others at jams. The MT is a beast. I played an Collings MF last week, and perhaps it was the set up, but my MT had so much more of a meaty punch.

[Alan Taunton]

I have both a Weber Fern and a Collings MT. I really like both, but find that I gravitate more and more toward the Weber.

[Jeff Chu]

Hey Nate,

I dunno where you are, but i feel that for this next step upwards... i would make a little bit of a drive to test these mandos out. Nearest big city should have a shop carrying one of these. But if you cant, there are some websites that have really great sound clips. My vote would be for a collings mt2. Either company, you can call them up and have them talk you through it. After 6 years of playing, im sure you have an idea of the type of sound you are looking for. Both probably have great turn around times too!

[f#54]

Nate, I am in the same boat with you sorta speak. Ill be going to Nashville in April so I can touch and feel a bighorn (Thanks a lot capt) and a Collins M20. All I can go on is looks and sound clips from the internet. Its not so much the money, I just want to get it right this time hopefully. Soo I'll pick you up and we will split the driving, Deal?

[Shawn Gambrel]

Weber is the way to go. I have played a lot of Collins and Weber. Collins necks are to chunky and to me feel cheap and do not have the tone i look for. Weber have the smaller neck and better looks to me. I favor the Weber but really you have to play them both and make a better decision.

[Chris Biorkman]

I wouldn't call Collings necks chunky or their instruments cheap looking at all. To me, they look nicer than Webers. To each their own I guess.

[mandolinbill1949]

I have never been impressed by the 4 webers i have played.So if it was me i would go gibson or collings.

[Kevin Briggs]

Nate,

You are the only one who can decide. Every opinion on here belongs to someone other than you.

My opinion is that I really like both. My custom Weber Fern is really great. It has complex tone, great responsiveness, and easy playability. I try to really take care of it so it stays so nice. The volume is very good, but not quite as good as on my custom Weber Bitteroot. That accounts for the differences between mandolins. Webers are known for more differences from mandolin to mandolin. Some are phenomenal.

Collings mandolins are great as well. They are very easy to play and star out with what i would call a "fine" tone. They sound very, very nice right out of the box. Over time, like any mandolin, a Collings will mature and come into its own. I'd say Collings mandolins have a reputation for consistency. You can order a Collings MT from anywhere and it will be a high quality instrument. Some are high quality and some are exceptional.

That's the word on the street. You might consider that you can save a few hundred dollars by getting a Gallatin A model over a MT. Either way, if that's your price range you should get an A style.

There is a Silver Angel "economy" mandolin right now for less than both the Gallatin and MT.

[Shawn Gambrel]

Kevin is right. My opinion is Weber's are better then Collins in my opinion. But that is just me. You have to play all kinds and see which one grasps you.

[JEStanek]

It's Collings. Made by the company founded by Bill Collings. This is a peeve of mine. Nobody calls them Gabsons, or Weders.

Collings (http://www.collingsguitars.com/mandolins.htm)

Collins Instruments (http://www.collinsinst.com/) from Texas is totally different. Very metallic tone.

Jamie

[Chris Biorkman]

It's Collings. Made by the company founded by Bill Collings. This is a peeve of mine. Nobody calls them Gabsons, or Weders.

Collings (http://www.collingsguitars.com/mandolins.htm)

Collins Instruments (http://www.collinsinst.com/) from Texas is totally different. Very metallic tone.

Jamie

Well, now you've done it. You made Jamie upset. I didn't think it was possible. ;)

[allenhopkins]

Either way I am going to have to order without having ever played either model.

I'd reconsider that, IMHO, if it's at all possible. If I'm about to pay $1500-2000 for a mandolin, I'd darn well want to play a bunch of them first. You have a bevy of competing opinions above, but it's going to be your mandolin, and your likes and dislikes are what should govern the choice.

One thing to buy a $300 Rover sight unseen, another to buy a Collings or a Weber. At least get 48-hour approval, so if it's not what you want, you can send it back for only the cost of shipping.

[Miked]

Jamie, you're really freakin' me out with your avatar.:(

[JEStanek]

Dudes, It's Michael Keaton as Beetlejuice! He looks like the Joker. Both characters I love. He was harmless (as am I). I'm surprised no one has offered this correction before as I've seen Collings referred to as Collins often. I was happy when I got corrected from Bacorn to Bacon Artist model (See the Eastman DG2 instrument- yum).

I agree with Allan. You are much better served at least having had a Gibson, Collings, Eastman, or Weber mandolin in hand at least once so you can see if you like how they feel. Plenty of people thought I would have been much happier with a Breedlove than an Eastman. Turns out one fit me better than the other. For your choice between the two, that's a tough job without getting either brand in hand to try first.

Jamie

[red7flag]

I have owned 2 of each, Bitterroot mahogany custom and Vintage A Webers and MF and MF5 Collings. They are different breeds all together. I really like both brands. I would suggest that you try each and decide from what feels right. Go by your gut feeling not the salesman's pressure. You will see a consistency of sound with the Collings even including the new ovals. The Webers have a wide variation of sounds as there are a wider variation of configurations and intents.
The relationship to an instrument is like a love affair, it has to feel comfortable. Sometimes the instrument that seems intellectually wrong just feels right and is right. Just my take.

[Rick Schmidlin]

You have to play all kinds and see which one grasps you.

AGREED:cool:

[MachineGunKelly]

Nate,

You may feel like you're at a critical juncture, but the answer here is very simple: Collings MT.
No question about it. My cocksureness is rooted in the fact that I owned both an Absaroka and a Gallatin, and now I'm the proud owner of a Collings. I mean to tell you it's not really even close. And I'm not trying to slag Weber either. I respect both builders, and I would be totally impartial to the query had I not had first-hand knowledge. It looks like you've made the decision to spend 2k, and I'm offering my quasi-solicited opinion. The tone, range, richness and volume of the Collings is far superior. It's dry, and has that woody pop. And the neck is open to exploration, with far less limitation in the upper register. You'll continue to discover the instrument months into the relationship. Your playing will progress exponentially. With the Webers... you'll know all there is to know of your woman the first night.

[CES]

Nate,

With the Webers... you'll know all there is to know of your woman the first night.

Yeah, but if it's the right one for you, sometimes that first night makes you never want to leave again...have been married to the same lady for almost 13 years, been together for going on 18, and things have only gotten better along the way...but, I was smitten from the git-go...

Back to the mandos...haven't owned either one...but in my brief experience with these little 8 stringers I've discovered that I like a little beefier neck...my Flatiron Pancake is much more comfortable to my touch than my Kentucky...the Kentucky really sounds great for the price and I'd pit it against more expensive instruments in the right hands, but the Flatiron feels better to me...

If you can't play the instruments you're going to buy, at least try out several Collings and Webers in your area (borrow, "window shop," whatever)...pick the one that feels the best to you...

[Patrick Sylvest]

I had an MT, got a Weber Limited with a Cedar top with the intention of keeping the one I liked better.........Still got the Weber, still getting better.

[Kevin Briggs]

Nate,
With the Webers... you'll know all there is to know of your woman the first night.

I disagree very respectfully, but wholeheartedly. My experience with two different Webers has given me different insights. It could be that the Collings simply grabbed you from the start, so you were interested in the listening experiment. The Weber may have left you feeling indifferent, which may have resulted in indifference towards the maturation process.

[guitharsis]

Nate,
Have never played a Weber or a Collings, but I have dealt with Dennis at the Mandolin Store. He's very knowledgeable, honest and wouldn't pressure you into one or the other. I'd give him a call and ask his advice. He carries both Collings and Weber. You could probably test either or both.

LOVE the looks of the Steve Cantrell's new Weber Gallitan.

[Capt. E]

I love Beetlejuice. I can watch it over and over. Keeton is a comic genius. If he had only played the mandolin...sigh!

I have spent the time to play side by side the equivalent models of Collings and Weber mandolins and just can't choose most times. The latest example is a Weber Vintage A vs a Collings MT-2. Both very nice instruments, but yes, they do have somewhat subltle tonal difference. I bought my particular Bighorn because the tonal values as well as the volume just blew me away. I'm not sure another Bighorn would have done the same. Try and play before you buy.

Do Weber and Collings use different strings? That alone could account for much of the tonal differences.

[Ken Olmstead]

Nate,

With the Webers... you'll know all there is to know of your woman the first night.

This is simply an erroneous statement. In fact, the opposite is true. It takes a new Weber a substantial amount of time to show you what you are ultimately getting in terms of tone. It you are lucky enough to play one at a store that keeps good strings on them and has them set up periodically for local weather changes, you will have the chance play a good mandolin that gets fabulous over the next year or two.

I also love the Collings MT. I have never played anything better from Collings. In fact for me, the more you spend on a Collings, the less the sound appeals to my ear.

Sure would be great if you could play some. That is really the only way to go. If I was in your shoes, and often I am living in Alaska, I would order the MT just because I have never played one that wasn't excellent.

[MachineGunKelly]

I would consider the 7 years I owned a Weber to be a "substantial" amount of time. I would also consider a 7 year sentence of hard labor in a Gulag substantial. 7 years on earth, however, would be rather insubstantial. Pardon my circumlocution, but the term is relative. And perhaps I took a bit too much liberty with my final statement. Anyway, Nate's original question did state that playing a variety of different models was not really an option. Maybe this is a geographical limitation. Perhaps he's extremely busy working to pay for an obscenely wealthy banker's bailout. Either way, it sounded like he was going to roll the dice and order a mandolin in the 2k range. Weber Ferns and Custom Vintage styles may blow an MT off of the bandstand... I really wouldn't know. I am aware that they cost substantially more. (there's that word again!) But if the choice was whittled down to an MT or a Gallatin, I think he's better off with the MT. And the only reason I sounded off on this was due to the unique vantage point of having owned both.

[Dalton Maples]

One question on the Gallatin. Are we talking mahogany or maple back and sides? The new ones are maple back and sides. I have a three year old maple Gallatin F with scroll headstock that is loud and crisp.

[MachineGunKelly]

The one I owned was mahogany.

[bienkow1]

Having spent an inordinate amount of time down the street at Elderly, I can say that the Collings MT holds it own against every other mandolin in the store. I want one so damn badly.

I played the used Gallatin the had up there not too long ago and was very unimpressed, although from the responses it seems that Weber's have a longer "wake up" period. I personally wouldn't know.

Without knowing exaclty what you're looking for, I have to say that I would recommend the Collings MT to absolutley anyone in the market. I love that mandolin. Anyone want a slightly used Breedlove?

[shadco]

Having owned a Collings and now a Weber I would not characterize the Collings neck as chunky, actually i would say the opposite. Webers from a few years ago would be characterized as chunky but I think between their dealers and what they've learned in the marketplace that they tend to be somewhat less chunky now.

The Blonde MT I owned was fantastic especially for the price but I would even say price aside they are a good value.

I really feel my Weber is a better instrument, right out of the box it was better but then it should be it cost more.

You need to play some.

[kirksdad]

I think the whole "Collings vs. Weber" argument, is just like the Gibson vs Fender arguments I had with my guitar playing friends in High School. I am old enough to realize now, that for me to be happy with an instrument, I have to play it first, and try not to think about the name on the Peghead.

Gotta Second the "Dennis from Mandolin Store" props. I got my first Weber from him, a Special Edition cedar top Deluxe, and I love it. He and his staff deserve alot of credit for listening to their customers, with the feedback, they put you into the best mandolin. Sometimes, I have heard them sell a lesser priced mando to a customer, because it fit them better. You can't underestimate this.
I played a few Collings from Pickers Supply in Fredericksburg, and they were certainly very good.

I know you don't have the time, but try to play few before you make the jump. You'll feel a whole lot better.

[red7flag]

Most of the Webers that I played in a store, the Vintage A was an exception maybe due to the "old wood", came off as a bit tight. I have been told here that it often takes a bit longer for a Weber to open up due to that tightness. My first Weber, a Bitterrroot Custom, was that way. Once open was a jewel. Again, trust your gut feeling playing both. I have never had my gut feeling lead me wrong with an instrument. Now my head has made some real corkers...

[Capt. E]

In regards to Weber, you have to take into account the changes they have made in instrument construction in the last few years. The move to tone bars is one big change and a big improvement. You also can't compare a Weber Gallatin with a Collings MT. They are in different classes. The Gallatin A is half the price of an MT. Instead, compare the MT to the Vintage A. I have done so and find them very close with subtle tonal differences. Choosing one over the other become a matter of taste and the type of music you intend on playing.

[Martyweir]

Don't buy without playing. You need to visit a good shop & pick a few. You'll be amazed how different 2 collings can feel / sound. Trust me. I was going to post a new thread & plug Hans Brentrup, but this seems an appropriate place...

If your looking at a Weber or Collings, then your going to shell out a little coin for a good quality instrument. I just left this shop in http://www.acousticmusicworks.com/. I'm kinda doing the same dance you're doing right now.

When I first walked in Steve (the owner) handed me a beautiful F-5 model Brentrup. I've never played one, and honestly I must admit I was a little nervous being handed a nearly $10K mandolin right off the bat. My hat is of to Steve, and he did "make my day" as he commented to another customer as he handed it to me. It has a beautiful red spruce top, Oil varnish finish, warm buttery tone, a huge chop, and an incredible loud punchy projection with even a light pickhand. I swear it feels and sounds better the further up the neck you play. It's hard to describe until you experience, but it just rings out up around the 7th-12th fret like no instrument I've ever played before. It makes playing up the neck a treat instead of a chore. The playability is remarkable. It has the perfect setup - low fast action, and the neck just fits in your hands so comfortably + tung oiled neck so your palm does not stick to the neck. OK, I'm drooling.

Then he handed me an A-5 model Brentrup, again the second most playable instrument I've ever experienced. HEADS above any of the two instuments you mentioned above, and you might be supprised that your in a similar price range for the A model. Check out the pricing on the website for used instruments.

Anyway, from there I played quite a few of his webers, collings, and even eastman to bring me back to earth... F models, A models, 2 points, oval holes, f holes, you name it. I was supprisingly dissapointed with the Webers after experiencing the Brentrups. The collings playability was not bad, however no hope of ever matching the tone. At first I felt it was a bit unfair to start my shoppin out with a world class mandolin, then play the "lower" grade instruments, however it truly gave me a benchmark, and I knew exactly what I was looking for, and what I wanted to avoid.

I'd really reccomend looking around a bit. Both insturments you mention are a world above your kentucky, however for the coin your going to lay down, there are other options out there... Pomroy? Flatiron?

[CES]

MachineGunKelly,

Didn't mean to sound confrontational with my comments above, and didn't take your comment as offensive either...just trying to make the point that it's hard to judge an individual mandolin by brand/rep alone just because there are so many variations in strings/set-up, etc...I'm not yet a very good player but have been surprised what you can find to try out by asking around at jams/music shops, even if they're not stocked in the stores...

I wasn't able to play any of the instruments I have now before I bought, but by at least trying different mandos and trying import "copies" I at least had an idea what I was getting into feel-wise. I would actually probably choose the MT between those 2 particular mandos but would have a hard time deciding between an MT and a vintange A...

[scgc.om]

re: Weber vs Collings

I've owned one Weber (custom order A model) and played several with a mind to buying. I do NOT like Webers -- the finish is typically SOOO THICK. Seemed to chock the sound, like having a concrete blanket wrap. I sold my custom A -- the new owner traded it to a shop and it's been for sale for years -- no takers.

I bought a Blackface, wide neck Collings MT about 18 mo ago -- I LOVE it! I've played 8 or 10 Collings -- ALL of them were exciting and (IMO) represented good value for $$.

IMO -- no contest -- Collings clear favorite . . . .

[red7flag]

Capt. E. suggests comparing an MT with a Vintage A. My take: very different animals. MT very strong crisp notes (f holes), will play grass with no effort. While the Vintage A (oval) can play grass, I did at a jam last Sunday, it really shines in duets or in a music configurations where it compliments rather than dominates, ie. traditional Irish. Both great instruments, but on different ends of the spectrum. The MT cuts while the Vintage A sings. Look at your playing style for they really shine in different ways.

[Capt. E]

Actually that is what I meant, the MT and the Vintage oval are at different ends of the spectrum. Neither is "better" except in the context of the music you want to play. If you are planning on spending more than a few hundred (everyones threshold is different) you should play and compare before you buy.

Also, don't play too many different instruments at one time. They can run together and confuse you ear.