"A" Bender option for electrics

[jlsmandolin1952]

I have had a couple of inquiries about A-Benders for my mando's. and am looking for some feedback on the subject. I am currently in the process of having one designed, and considering offering them as an option for both my 4 and 5 Stringers.
Just wondering how many pickers would have an interest in such an animal? From my understanding, there are some well known pickers out there, who just plain have to them.
Thanks,
John
www.jlsmithmandolins.com

[mdlorenz]

Someone inspired by the White Bros. article in the latest fretboard journal perhaps? :)

[jlsmandolin1952]

Well maybe, but perhaps not?

[mandroid]

A way of pulling on the end ball of the string was sorted out in those Stew Mac ones , any pictures of how they did it??

having it revert to A again in some semblance of proper pitch will be a challenge..

getting these suckers In-tune in the first place is a chore..

[thistle3585]

Here is how StewMac did it. A bit over engineered in my opinion but I guess it worked. I think the best bet is a mini Bigsby style tailpiece.

[jlsmandolin1952]

From my understanding, there have been several variations, and some have not been as sucessful, as others. Same being said for the Vibratos on guitars in the past. I don't see any huge problems, if they are built with close tolerances.

[jlsmandolin1952]

I suppose what makes the Bender more desireable, is the fact that you bend the string by pushing down on the neck, which is activated by the strap. This gives you more control with your pickin hand, and I believe that you could actually feel the phrasing a bit better in that way. I watched the Skaggs Videos on youtube.com, and it looks like he was really enjoying himself. He has a Glaser, which is one of the more sucessful benders.

[jlsmandolin1952]

Andrew,
Thanks for the pics on the Macrostie stewmac version. I have already studied that design, along with others.

[thistle3585]

Andrew,
Thanks for the pics on the Macrostie stewmac version. I have already studied that design, along with others.


Not a problem. I've been down this road and I'm glad someone else has taken over the trip. How about getting into the bridge business while you're at it. I'll make you a heck of a deal on my jigs. :grin:

[EdSherry]

I'd be interested in getting a strap-button-operated one, akin to the Glaser or the old Stew-Mac. The "Bigsby"-type approach wouldn't work for me. -- Ed

[thistle3585]

Ed, I think the strap system would be fairly easy to make although it would be difficult to retro fit to an existing instrument. Since all my instruments are semi hollow, I could easily install one on a new one. I think a cable would be better than a bar.

Actually, one of the things that makes this process so expensive and long, at least for me, is that I was never a guitarist and am not knowledgeable with the systems on the market. The quickest way to develop a system is by understanding the existing systems and how they work from an engineering and design aspect. Before I started building bridges, I ordered a bunch of hardtail bridges, same as I have done for the tun o matic bridges I am working on, so I could actually hold them in my hands and see how all the components work together. I think the best system for tremolo would be Bigsby type system, where the strings thread through a bar that rotates, integrated into a hard tail bridge. If anyone wants to send me a Bigsby system then I will make them a deal on the first one but right now my dollars are better spent elsewhere.

[RichieK]

I added a 'Hipshot' A bender to my Schwab 5 string..it works just fine. Easy and cheap.
But I also have 2 Teles with B and G benders by Joe Glaser, another Tele with a Parsons B- bender done by Brian Friend, and a D-18 with an acoustic B-Bender done by Gene himself. All great people to deal with.
And Bill Bores and McVey make great stuff too.
Maybe I'm lucky, but I've never had a problem with any of 'em!

I guess you can tell that I like Benders?

[jlsmandolin1952]

Lots of interesting replies, and all greatly appreciated. RichieK's reply was very interesting to me, when he mentioned the D-18 with an A-Bender. I never knew that Acoustic (I won't say the word Guitars on the Cafe') would accept one, but there are alot of things that I don't know, and alot of things that I wish I never knew. However, I have talked to Gene Parsons, and I believe that he would be very capable of accomplishing that particular task.
John

[Jim Cariello]

I had Gene Parsons put an acoustic bender in a J-200jr:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=237&pictureid=1847

[Jim Cariello]

Here's another:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=237&pictureid=1846

[mrmando]

mandoalaska -- What manner of K5 is that? And where oh where did you get that red Fender SB-4? That is a hen's tooth, especially outside the UK.

I think it was Shawn Lane who told me at Wintergrass that he'd known someone with an old Mandocaster that had an A-bender installed. It was sort of a ...



























































































Fender bender.

[Jim Cariello]

Martin, it's a Mowry Octave and the Fender is a '56 I got from Gruhn some years ago. It came with refinished RED body, I didn't do it.

[Daniel Nestlerode]

I saw the mandocaster and wondered about it too. Didn't think it was an SB-4 because of the angle of the pickup. SB-4's are perpendicular to the strings, which is one of the issues with the later mandocasters (SB-4, SB-8/FM-984, FM-988). I guess I just assumed it would be easier to refinish the wood than cut a new pickguard. Not sure that's true now with all these electric mandolin luthiers hanging around. ;)

Daniel

[mrmando]

Good catch Daniel -- the white pickguard threw me. There are enough red Mandocasters around to suggest that some of them might have come that way from the custom shop.

[jefflester]

I thought the neck looked plenty aged enough to not be an SB-4/FM-984.

[EdSherry]

Andrew -- the "tremelo" system (whether Bigsby-based or otherwise) is, IMHO, a whole 'nother concept than a string-bender (like the original Parsons-White or many of the later variants, whether for guitar or the StewMac and Glaser versions for mandolin). A tremelo/vibrato/whammy bar affects all the strings at once; a bender system affects one string at a time, changing its pitch while keeping the other strings unchanged.

You might be referring to the Bigsby "palm pedal" bender design, which is a palm-operated bender that retrofit onto the top of the guitar. Very different from the commonly-recognized Bigsby "tremelo" system.

http://www.bigsbypalmpedals.com/

(NFI.)

As for cable vs. bar, I'm not familiar with any bender system on the market that uses a cable. If I were to hazard a guess why, I would suspect that there simply would be too much "play" in a cable-based system to ensure that it comes reliably back to pitch when the bender is released.

RichieK -- I hadn't thought of using a Hipshot on an e-mando, but I'm sure it would work. It's just that I'm not a real fan of the Hipshot design.

[thistle3585]

Ed,
My idea on the cable was that the actual bender would have a spring mechanism, similar to a take up reel, that would allow you to pull the string sharp and the strings tension would bring it back. So I guess the next question would be whether you are to bend sharp or flat?

I also thought that if you could have a roller that ran across the back of the hardtail bridge then you could have the option of running all the strings on it or just one.

[Clif Wayland]

The cable ideal makes me think of the squeeze handle to engage the drive wheels on my lawnmower. It is a heavy guage music wire in a sturdy flexible sleeve with a return spring "loaded" ar one end. It's pretty much a self contained system. Maybe something like that could be adapted.

[jlsmandolin1952]

From my understanding, all benders (not vibrato's) bend sharp, and normally 1 whole note (ie A to B) for mando.

[EdSherry]

Andrew -- All of the stringbender systems I'm familiar with rely on some mechanical system to raise the pitch of the string, and then rely on the combination of (a) releasing the mechanism and (b) the string tension to lower the pitch back to "normal."

So in theory a cable could work.That said, I'm hard-pressed to envision a cable-based design that would work effectively.

Maybe part of it is that most benders I'm aware of (the exception is the Parsons acoustic guitar version) are made to be inserted into channels routed in a solid-body instrument, rather than into a hollow-body instrument.

[thistle3585]

Andrew -- All of the stringbender systems I'm familiar with rely on some mechanical system to raise the pitch of the string, and then rely on the combination of (a) releasing the mechanism and (b) the string tension to lower the pitch back to "normal."

So in theory a cable could work.That said, I'm hard-pressed to envision a cable-based design that would work effectively.

Maybe part of it is that most benders I'm aware of (the exception is the Parsons acoustic guitar version) are made to be inserted into channels routed in a solid-body instrument, rather than into a hollow-body instrument.

Think of it in terms of a rope pull start on a lawn mower. You pull on the cable and it spends the wheel then a spring returns the wheel to its starting position. On the mandolin, you would attach the ball to the wheel so it is spun a bit when the cable which is attached to the strap is pulled. Does that make sense?

[Jim Cariello]

Here's a link to the pedal driven Gretsch/ B-bender with :

http://www.vintageandrareguitars.com/web/our-catalogue/Gretsch/item/3985

[fusroy]

Lots of great info on this list! I just saw that someone was trying to get $3K for one of the Stew-Mac A-benders on Ebay a couple weeks ago. I don't think so! I am looking for a 5-string with a bender however. I have an old hipshot around the house, which someone mentioned here, so maybe I will try that if I can't come up with a dedicated Parsons/White or a Glasser type mando. The hipshot worked fine on my Tele, but I hated having to stand up and play to use it. Maybe on a much smaller instrument I can figure out some way to use it while sitting down. Anyway, it would sure be the cheapest way to go. Thanks again to all of you for the good info and ideas!

[jlsmandolin1952]

Well, I've heard alot of good stuff on this subject, and will most likely get around to doing something one day. However, it is not on the top of my list of things to do. Thanks for all the responses.
John

[fusroy]

I would definitely be interested in an 5-string with an a-bender, if the cost weren't prohibitive, i.e. for me that would be over $1200 or so.