NOT a Gibson

[BlueMountain]

What you see here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270353555645
is a Trinity River that sells for $80 new, like this:
http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=AM1AS
and this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-TRINITY-RIVER-A-STYLE-F-HOLE-MANDOLIN-W-GIG-BAG_W0QQitemZ260370871519QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item260370871519&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14
with a Gibson decal on the headstock and a fake Gibson label inside.

I wrote to the guy who posted the ad on eBay. He insisted that this IS a real Gibson F9, made in 1997. I gave him a long list of reasons why it isn't, such as the lack of curly maple sides and back. So he revised his ad to say that it has curly maple sides and back.

The current bid is $450! I warned him that someone was likely to be badly disappointed when he or she found out that this is NOT a Gibson, but evidently he doesn't care.

[chip]

I think you mean A9 not F9...

[Bob Wiegers]

report it to ebay and they'll probably take it down

[Steve Gorman]

Well done. I am sorry for the person who buys this. I guess we can only hope that if they are smart enough to know to look for a Gibson A model they will catch on. The seller should be held responsible for this.

[MikeEdgerton]

I think he'll care soon. This is just another cheap imported mandolin with the Gibson decal on the headstock. Hopefully he didn't get taken when he took it in. If he did, shame on him. Some poor unsuspecting bidder will have a $75.00 mandolin with a Gibson decal on it. Hopefully they'll be happy with it.

[MoBob]

Seller says its a 1997 A9, Gibson didn't make A9s until 2002.

[BlueMountain]

I sent him all the links I posted here this morning. His response was, "And?" One of you want to report it to eBay? Maybe someone who works for Gibson?

[Bob Wiegers]

looks like it's down now. well done.

[blacksmith]

Reminds me of the whack-a-mole game.

[MoBob]

I sent the seller an e-mail informing him the A9 wasn't produced until 2002, so it couldn't possibly be a 1997 Gibson A9. I got a message back from ebay saying the item was no longer available, had been purchased using the buy it now option. Poor sucker got taken.

[mandozilla]

CAVEAT EMPTOR :grin:

:mandosmiley:

[woodwizard]

Reminds me of the whack-a-mole game.

Ain't that the truth!

[MikeEdgerton]

The auction doesn't show it ended with a Buy It Now, it says the the auction was ended without meeting the reserve. The price shows as $.99.

[mandozilla]

And another one bites the dust! :))

Good work guys! :grin:

:mandosmiley:

[Tim Pike]

I too had written the seller and I will paste his response to me below. And looks like he is a fellow Oregonian....geez

This item is no longer available it has been bought in the "Buy It Now" Thanks for looking and please check out our other auction's here on Ebay! It looks like you have a lot of time on your hands.

Thanks

Usa Pawn & Jewelry

[BlueMountain]

Yes, he didn't have a Buy It Now thing on the ad, but he DID meet his $450 minimum price. He sent me a message also saying he'd closed it using Buy It Now. I think he meant that he used his ability to close the ad and let the highest bidder be the winner. However, given that the ad says that it didn't sell, I suspect that he contacted the high bidder and offered to close the ad and sell privately. This is of course NOT allowed by eBay policy. Oh well. We tried.

[mrmando]

Or, maybe he just wants everyone to think he sold it. This is apparently not a reliable person, so I wouldn't trust what he says about his reason for closing the auction. Could be that someone came into his pawnshop and bought it over the counter ... for less than $450, I hope.

[MikeEdgerton]

It would show on the auction that it ended with a Buy It Now. He may say he ended with a Buy It Now but eBay doesn't know it.

[Jim Broyles]

report it to ebay and they'll probably take it down

This does not work. eBay does not have a "fraud police," and they make their money when people sell things. Gibson would care, eBay doesn't.

[Jim Broyles]

On Mar-05-09 at 12:56:41 PST, seller added the following information:

On 3/5 we took the Mandolin to a professional shop due to some inquiries and it is a true genuine 100% authentic Gibson. Also we found out that the year is 1997. Good luck to all!!:))

[mrmando]

Yes, I saw that. A "professional shop," eh? I wonder if he got a box of TaylorMade TPs while he was there?

[MikeEdgerton]

I actually told him he needed to find another shop.

[barney 59]

These come up constantly --this was a pawn shop in Oregon but other times it's been a pawnshop in Arizona. I'll bet it's the same people somehow. They know it's bad and I bet they have a stack of them. Others have tried to sell them and when I communicate with them they seem honestly surprised and have pulled or modified their listing -others soldier on but the Arizona guys either dispute the claim or mostly, don't respond. I bet they have Gibson stenciled in China on the head stock and put the internal label in themselves- otherwise there could be a big stink if it gets seen by customs.

[MikeEdgerton]

I doubt the headstock is stenciled, it's most likely just a slide off decal. They are readily available.

[barney 59]

O.K. a decal then. Maybe they actually have the label printed at a Kinkos in Bozeman. These mandolins are all over e-bay they are a Johnson or another brand or no name and they are all coming from the same source- they are identical and can be bought for under $100 usually. They are the same as these fake Gibsons and the Chinese manufacturers wouldn't care --they'd put anything on there that you ask for -that is if they're not to busy poisoning the dog food or the toothpaste.
I was trying to think how this works and how they pull it off over and over. When I put things on ebay- someone will always ask if here is a "buy it now" when there clearly isn't. The buyer goes to the lister hoping that they can skirt the auction!- they do a little negotiating and the buyer pays a price that is over the existing high bid and completes a little private deal outside of e-bay - pays with a credit card/ not pay pal.The seller pulls the listing which if they work it right can be up for only a few hours.- when the buyer realizes he's been had it's too late he can't whine to e-bay because he broke the rules as well. The lister can then keep his positive feedback going for a while and eventually when e-bay does figure something out they're already working under a new name. When they get pulled people like us that are blowing the whistle feel as though we've been successful and shut them down but really they just shut us up. Anyone looking? Are these things showing up on Craig's list as well? I always feel bad when I see that someone paid several hundred dollars for one of these. I think the next time I see one I'll pretend I want to buy it and see what happens. Oh Boy A Gibson! How much?

[Mike Bromley]

:))"100% authentic Gibson"

Is there such a thing as a 98% authentic Gibson?

[mrmando]

Is there such a thing as a 98% authentic Gibson?
Yes -- that's a Gibson with Martin strings on it!

[markishandsome]

If you use a gibson strap is it 101% authentic?

This seller is the sort of clown who gives pawnbrokers a bad name.

[BlueMountain]

It's been relisted. http://cgi.ebay.com/Reproduction-Gibson-A-9-Mandolin-Vintage-Brown_W0QQitemZ250387362393QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1017 9QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Interesting to see the pains the guy has taken to say it is NOT a Gibson, while not mentioning the Gibson decal on the headstock or label inside or mentioning that it is actually a Trinity River with a Trinity River gig bag. Oh, also, a different seller name.

No one will think it's actually a Gibson, so I don't care.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm going to guess this guy got burned loaning money on this.

[markishandsome]

"Oh, also, a different seller name."

I think it's actually a different seller. Down in the Q&A the new seller writes:
"I know a store down the street 2 blocks (US Pawn). Pulled a add for the same model mandolin yesterday..."

It may not even be the same mandolin. The pickguard screw looks different and the bridge is more properly located. Maybe the first seller dumped the mandolin with this new guy, or (more likely and more worrisome) somebody's cruising around Portland with a trunk full of "reproduction" gibsons defrauding pawn shops.

[Michael_M]

I'm wondering why no one has bid on this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320350051033

Is it a fake and how do you tell? It's at least the second time it's been posted with no bites.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm wondering why no one has bid on this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320350051033

Is it a fake and how do you tell? It's at least the second time it's been posted with no bites.

It's real with some issues. As to why nobody has bid on it, I don't know. It's a start at $600.00 with a reserve that is unknown. What did it start at last time?

[Michael_M]

It's real with some issues. As to why nobody has bid on it, I don't know. It's a start at $600.00 with a reserve that is unknown. What did it start at last time?

It started at the same price last time. I guess I was just curious since it seems as though there have been Gibson's in worse shape that have gone for twice as much. I was thinking that maybe it was because the seller has had very little feedback.

[Paul Statman]

It's real with some issues. As to why nobody has bid on it, I don't know. It's a start at $600.00 with a reserve that is unknown. What did it start at last time?

It got up to $709 and "reserve not met" after five bids from three people..

[Jim Broyles]

Now it started at $700 with no reserve, but got removed as no longer for sale. Probably sold.

[mrmando]

The fakes are getting fancier (http://cgi.ebay.com/1995-Gibson-F-5-Mandolin-in-Hard-Case-F5_W0QQitemZ310132922154QQihZ021QQcategoryZ10179QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)...

[GDAE]

Just a general thought on this and similar threads.

It would be really helpful to those of us who aren't as familiar with older mandolins if when you guys see a fake, you point out a couple of the specific things that make it obvious to you. That will help the rest of us learn, and give more eyes out there to help identify the fakes.

I'd really like to learn more about how to identify them...you never know when you're gonna run across something interesting somewhere in person and need to know what to look for.

Thanks!

[Paul Statman]

the fakes are getting fancier (http://cgi.ebay.com/1995-gibson-f-5-mandolin-in-hard-case-f5_w0qqitemz310132922154qqihz021qqcategoryz10179qq sspagenamezwdvwqqrdz1qqcmdzviewitem)...

Reported.