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View Full Version : Quiz. Loar or Derrington



carleshicks
Mar-03-2009, 2:13pm
Which one is a 20's Loar and which one is a DMM

Scotti Adams
Mar-03-2009, 2:14pm
The one on the left is the real deal.

f5loar
Mar-03-2009, 2:26pm
way too easy. The left was Loar signed.

Mike Black
Mar-03-2009, 2:34pm
The one on the Left is the Loar. The inlay on the "THE" gives it away. The Loar inlay didn't have the hook under the T.

Dfyngravity
Mar-03-2009, 2:40pm
Left.

Is there any significance to the "i" in the The Gibson script. Why is it that some have the dot in "free" space where some have the dot included at the bottom of the T in "The"?

carleshicks
Mar-03-2009, 2:57pm
now throw these in

Mike Black
Mar-03-2009, 3:00pm
It's a July 9, 1923 Lloyd Loar in very good condition, nice dark sunburst. No Virzi. Sidebound peghead, top-bound body.

Change the name of the file first. :grin:

Chris Biorkman
Mar-03-2009, 3:02pm
It's a July 9, 1923 Lloyd Loar in very good condition, nice dark sunburst. No Virzi. Sidebound peghead, top-bound body.

Change the name of the file first. :grin:

Lol. Doh!

carleshicks
Mar-03-2009, 3:10pm
Well I didn't think you guys would cheat. LOL
Sometimes I suprise myself with how plainly stupid i am. o well it was fun for a minute.

man dough nollij
Mar-03-2009, 3:52pm
http://cmtvarok.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/doh.jpg

Jim Hilburn
Mar-03-2009, 5:07pm
The MM has CNC binding. In other words, it's not bound at all. The CNC cuts a slab of ivoroid so that all that's left is the "binding." The overlay is then cut to drop down in the void, giving the appearance of binding.
The give-away is the grain of the ivoroid running through the binding at all the odd angles. Same thing Collings does.

Mandolin
Mar-03-2009, 6:33pm
:mandosmiley:

carleshicks
Mar-03-2009, 9:37pm
well the one on the left has the tom ellis designed flower pot so that was easy

Danny Clark
Mar-03-2009, 9:58pm
you can't see it in the pics but the grain in the headstock binding on the DMM &MM runs oposite from a Loar.

Mandolin
Mar-03-2009, 10:01pm
Guess again. They are both loars.

carleshicks
Mar-04-2009, 4:08am
Guess again. They are both loars.
Then the one on the left must have had it's headstock venier replaced. because that is definetly a modern master model inlay.

Bernie Daniel
Mar-04-2009, 6:50am
Jim Hilburn: The MM has CNC binding. In other words, it's not bound at all. The CNC cuts a slab of ivoroid so that all that's left is the "binding."

At first I thought man that's wasteful......but then I'm thinking, OK so Gibson throws away a couple of hundred 4" X 8" pieces of plastic a year.

Maybe the company will survive after all! :))

danb
Mar-04-2009, 7:33am
Guess again. They are both loars.

The one on the left is definitely a modern one.. unless as others have said it's a loar with a replaced peghead overlay, but that wouldn't make sense as a "guess if this is a loar or not" question really!

HoGo
Mar-04-2009, 9:57am
Couple of clues to look for on MM/DMM headstock:
1) the binding thing Jim mentioned above
2) the larger scroll is not cut deep enough. On Loars the binding points right on standing instrument and ususally the tip of the bindings is not sharp point on Loars.
3) shape of the headstock (Loars had less symmetry in the curves)
4) I think I've seen some sidebound DMM's with bent binding on headstock, but he grain showed on side of the headstock instead of front like on Loars.
5) the inlay is CNC cut even though they tried to emulate handwork. Notice the tiny cuts that are rounded while sawblade would leave squared notch.
There's even more... e.g. noticed that Derringtons fingerprint at the lower a string tuning post in the second set of pics? :-)

carleshicks
Mar-04-2009, 10:31am
I do see the finger print. very observent sherlock. LOL

carleshicks
Mar-04-2009, 10:45am
Alright lets guess on something other than headstocks. see if you can tell induced distressing from actual.

danb
Mar-04-2009, 11:04am
I guess it's cheating if I recognize my own photos..

carleshicks
Mar-04-2009, 11:08am
ya you can't guess.

Sean Greer
Mar-04-2009, 11:11am
Alright lets guess on something other than headstocks. see if you can tell induced distressing from actual.

This reminds me of the old "Games" magazine and the eye-benders that they'd have. In this case, I'm not Loar or Gibson expert, but I'd have to say the modern instrument is on the left. Why? The label appears to be new.

HoGo
Mar-04-2009, 11:54am
OK, you forgot to mask the labels and the one on the left reads D-7**** which is DMM serial.
But what else youcan see here is:
1) the stain on originals was more opaque than stain of the DMM
2) also the stain on Loars was usually less even than on MMs. The one on the right has the typical streaking of hand applied stain.
3) shape of f-holes. The one on the left has typical Gibson CNC'd f-holes with rounded "notches". The shape of original holes varied around typical sized holes, but the notches were typically sharp though finish often makes this hard to see.
4) f/b extension is barely visible but the curve on its end is circular on MM while slightly elongated elliptical curve is found on most Loars
5) the f-holes on the loar (right pic) look like it is an early one as the f hole shape is slightly different from typical later Loars. Notice how close the larger circle is to the edge, th ewhole lower half of the hole is "leaning" towards the edge. Typically the distance from edge is almost equal to diameter of the circle.
6) the much higher quality of top wood reveals DMM, too.

carleshicks
Mar-04-2009, 12:07pm
OK, you forgot to mask the labels and the one on the left reads D-7**** which is DMM serial.
But what else youcan see here is:
1) the stain on originals was more opaque than stain of the DMM
2) also the stain on Loars was usually less even than on MMs. The one on the right has the typical streaking of hand applied stain.
3) shape of f-holes. The one on the left has typical Gibson CNC'd f-holes with rounded "notches". The shape of original holes varied around typical sized holes, but the notches were typically sharp though finish often makes this hard to see.
4) f/b extension is barely visible but the curve on its end is circular on MM while slightly elongated elliptical curve is found on most Loars
5) the f-holes on the loar (right pic) look like it is an early one as the f hole shape is slightly different from typical later Loars. Notice how close the larger circle is to the edge, th ewhole lower half of the hole is "leaning" towards the edge. Typically the distance from edge is almost equal to diameter of the circle.
6) the much higher quality of top wood reveals DMM, too.



HOGO you are the man. I love how detailed you are. i thought the well quarterd top wood and the label would give it away but all the other stuff shows that you are beyond an expert.

goose 2
Mar-04-2009, 12:28pm
The top on the left looks familar to me. I think I have played that one before.

danb
Mar-04-2009, 12:39pm
Medullary rays are another giveaway on the tops. Seeing lots of figure between the vertical grain lines tends to give away the modern preference for quartered topwoods.

I've always liked the flatter look to the Loars & f4s, you see the finish more so than depth in the top itself

carleshicks
Mar-04-2009, 12:53pm
The top on the left looks familar to me. I think I have played that one before.

it is DMM 70289 5-27-04. It was the first DMM to be released to the public, Sam Carlino has it for sale right now. Here is a pic of Charlie holding it.