The Grateful Dead Method

[duuuude]

My approach with any new tune is to noodle it to death with various licks, tempos, rhythms, etc. for a few hours at a stretch until I feel I've made it "mine". But then when playing it with others I've found I could only use a portion of what I worked on due to the differences in playing solo or with others.

I'm a big proponemt of playing things in your own style, not neccesarily the way it was written, otherwise it just feels like I'm copying rather than creating. Even the most standard bluegrass tune can stand a few innovations.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[mandopete]

Hear, hear! #I too enjoying "noodling" a bit and it's something that I'm finding less and less people to noodle with. #I wonder if all the emphasis on learning things properly and some of the tools can can used to imitate songs have taken away the ability to just rely on your ears, brain and instinct.

[Tennessee Jed]

I also "noodle" around with a tune. After a while it sort becomes my version of the song and becomes a part of me, not just a memorized duplicatation of the original. I guess this is how someone develops their own style. I rarely read tablature and usually play by ear so this method has become easier over time. I think I get a better feel for the song this way. I might check the tablature out later to see how my version compares with others versions and sometimes make changes if I'm not satisfied with what I'm doing.

[duuuude]

For myself, the "ear, brain, instinct" thing only came after much learning by imitation and gaining the confidence to just cut loose and enjoy creating. It's always a hoot to go back to a tune you learned long ago from tab, and have since added your own twists, just to hear how far you've come from the original.
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[ira]

saw the dead last night (man do they sound happy and amazing and warren haynes..what can i say but wow!). and they continue to play with their songs, altering and moving them dynamically. good enough for them...good enough for me. though i still try to learn songs in the way they were written as well. i think the combo of playing the traditional/original version, and learning to take off helps me to understand the song, what i want to do with it, and music in general in a more full and satisfying way.

[mandopete]

Well, all of this reminds me of an interesting jam experience I had a couple of weeks ago. #At a local bluegrass festival, late on Saturday night as the regular bluegrass jam was breaking up, a couple of young musicians stopped by to pick. #Both were outstanding players and had learned a considerable amount of Chris Thile/Nickel Creek tunes. #I assumed that if these folks were that good, they would be good at "noodling" - wrong! #It seems that all they could do was to imitate what they heard on record, but could not apply any of it in a jam situation.

I still say just trust your ears, brains and instincts.

[ira]

amen!

[mandolooter]

If ya play a tune from tab without adding any of "your" stuff to it then music wouldn't be near as fun to listen to or play. #I, for the life of me, can't help but add my own twists to songs I learn! My version's of songs are complimented and critisized by the folks I play with, just depends on whether they like the sounds bouncing around in my head!!!

[duuuude]

And don't forget 'looter: the farther away you are, the better you sound!

That's still cracking me up! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Michael H Geimer]

Mandolooter, that Givens still sounds awesome, even way out here in CA!

• • •

I always tweak the songs I play. But what cracks me up, is that I find myself getting opinionated about how the song's supposed to go. (As if I were somehow its author)

I change words. I substitute chords. I come up with entire stories about what these songs mean.

I do this because unless I have a clear understanding of what I'm singing about, I am completely at a loss to remember the words and changes.

- Benig

[Dave Caulkins]

Ahhh.... The joy of the "jamband" approach...

For years, this was the way I approached everything and I always was surrounded by players who indulged this trait of mine. However, nowadays if I want to rework a piece I have to do it in my own time and space.

My current group, a folk-rock band (think Joni Mitchell, bluesy Clapton, and acoustic Zeppelin coming together) approach tunes in a very 'matter of fact' manner. This is not to say that they are exact covers or not open to interpretation but the solo sections are usually single verse structures. This is a learning experience for me, as even in a formal setting I played jazz. Our singer is a classically trained guitarist and doesn't really feel comfortable in a jam setting yet (ironic, as I learned the opposite way... too much structure scares me).

After a decade of playing with jambands, jazz-cats, and Deadheads, it's a change I welcome, if only for the change of pace. I'm sure I'll return to the open space of progressive interpretation (probably via jazz) but for now this is where I am.

Later,

Dave

[mandopete]

I do this because unless I have a clear understanding of what I'm singing about, I am completely at a loss to remember the words and changes.
Benig - I know exactly what you mean. You may recall our discussion about the lyrics to "Wayfaring Stranger" - my version is "Where Gods we deem ...."

I know that this sort of thing really irks the bluegrassers, but I can't help it. It seems to come out more at a festival when you've played the same tune over and over without any variation. For me personally, I think this is a way to make a song more personal and just plain fun.

Now back to notion of "noodling" - do you think that this type of music is more interesting to musicians than it is to the listeners? I get that sort of comment when this topic comes up, but it sure seems like folks the Dead made a real career out of it.

[ira]

i don't think of it as noodling, but as exporation. the dead are similar to freeform jazz guys. there is a basic tune, but through exploration, it can be made into something slightly or drastically different based on the exploration and interplay of the musicians. this can be done in a long form way, or in a single verse solo structure. it is just a different way of looking at your music.

[duuuude]

- do you think that this type of music is more interesting to musicians than it is to the listeners?
Ahhh, therein lies the rub, guess alot depends on the "noodlers" and just what they are doing to keep it fresh and cohesive at the same time. If everybody is goin' in the same general direction it sounds OK, but if they're just goin' off into space with no real interaction then it's kinda tedious, IMWO.
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[Michael H Geimer]

My string band is walking the fence between the Dead/Jamgrass approch, and more traditional verse/chorus/break structures.

We will quite often 'hang around' and 'go modal' on the tonic before and after the breaks, or as an intro in place of the typical kick-off. Truth is ... we're really just stalling until I can remember the next verse!

Sometimes we'll just jam on a key, usually A. Last Sunday one guitarist asked, "Is that A-major or A-minor?" ... "Both"

The crowd loves it, but we do commincate well, and try not to over do it. We were told by a recent venue that we are an exception to the jam-band norm of shapeless chaos.

Pete,
I do recall that discussion on Wayfaring Stranger - a song I don't have the 'guts' to perform. (After MandoJohnny took the young Mr. White to task over that personal interpretation.)

John Henry is a song with which I have taken many liberties, adding chords to flesh out the melody, and picking just certain verses that I felt told the best story.

I was playing it one moring on the breakfsat stage of a local festival. Another singer asked me why I didn't sing certain verses. I explained about how I needed a story to hold onto. She then proceeded to break down the slang terms and jargon in some other verses, giving me insight into how they supported tha greater tale of John vs. The Steam Drill.

My point ... sometimes the evolution of a song will come from outside influences, as much as from within.

- Benig

(Darn, I'm long-winded)

[mandopete]

We will quite often 'hang around' and 'go modal' on the tonic before and after the breaks, or as an intro in place of the typical kick-off.
I like this idea - a combination of a more traditional form with space for jamming in between. I have a couple of somgs where I am trying to do this, but the band is having trouble switching in and out of approaches. I tell them (the bass player in particular) to just "play what you feel," and not worry too much about form. The trick is to get the musicians to listen to each other and act as a group - very much easier said than done.

[Michael H Geimer]

" ... The trick is to get the musicians to listen to each other and act as a group - very much easier said than done."

Yep. I have trouble explaining this idea to folks at jam circles. I guess that a lot of people feel more secure knowing they can count off so many measures of A, so many measures of D, etc.

But with this approach you really have to listen to whomever has the next lead, and follow them to the next change. Bold kick-offs, clean picking, and intuitive phrasing are important ingredients to making this work.

It does surprise me that this approach is difficult to explain to BG pickers. There is only one rule. Don't go anywhere until someone takes the lead! Common sense really.

- Benig

[mandopete]

But with this approach you really have to listen to whomever has the next lead, and follow them to the next change. Bold kick-offs, clean picking, and intuitive phrasing are important ingredients to making this work.
That is the key, isn't it? I hadn't thought too much about it, but these are the key elements to making the "jam" approach work. Thanks for the insight Benig!

[duuuude]

" ... The trick is to get the musicians to listen to each other and act as a group ..."

Gee Benig, where have I heard this before? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

mandopete - That's exactly what he was tryin' to teach me jammin' at the last Strawberry, LOL.

[ira]

the "conversation" musically between the players needs to be like any conversation. listening to each other, answering back in kind, staying on topic even if there are connected tangents, and taking your turn when appropriate, taking care not to be too short or verbose. eye contact and body language are key as well for success in the interaction.

jamming in a free mode requires politeness and willingness to take a stand within the constraints of the situation.

just my 5 cents,
ira

(sorry i am a speech-language pathologist, so this just seemed like a good comparison).

[Michael H Geimer]

LOL! Yep ... I'm pretty stubborn about that issue. If ya' can't handle personal interaction ... go sing karoke!

Credit where its due ... I had a very difficult time getting this sort of improvisational interaction to work when playing mandolin in my group - rather than guitar, where I controled the chord changes. The advice above about kick-offs, and boldly phrased statements came from last month's 'Driving the Group' thread. It all works, too!

- Benig

[LeftCoastMark]

Some of my bands best stuff are tunes that we learned, not from the original recording, but elsewhere...jams, campfires, grandmothers, pilgrims....

Without the mental constraints of imitation, we dig in and explore. Collaboration sets in.

People say "Who's arrangement is that?" Answer: "I dunno..."

[Michael H Geimer]

"Some of my bands best stuff are tunes that we learned, not from the original recording, but elsewhere...jams, campfires, grandmothers, pilgrims.... "
- LCM

I couldn't agree more! I much prefer learning a song directly from another player. The oral tradition method has worked for hundreds, if not *thousands of years*. If if ain't broke, don't fix it.

[ira]

going experimenting ala gd method tonight. opening our second set: aint no sunshine 'into' thrill is gone into knockin on heaven's door into evil ways.... should be fascinating.

[Chris Cantergiani]

Dude! You gotta tape that! I'd love to hear it!
The closest we usually come to something like that with the folks I jam with is "Friend of the Devil>Blackberry BLossom>Friend of the Devil". Simple, but fun.

Chris

[ira]

we also do mr. fantasy=hey jude, aiko-blister in the sun, communication breakdown-gloria, the joker-wildthing.
if it sounds like it and plays like it, or has a joining chord- do it.

[MandoVin]

Hi all,
This has been one of the most interesting threads I've read lately. #I also am a huge fan of noodling around songs, improvising and creating unique arrangements. #I play in a band that's just getting started in western MA and some of the guys are more traditional-minded and others love the noodling and experimentation. #So far it's a good mix. #We do the FOTD>Blackberry Blossom>FOTD too. #We also do Dark Hollow>Amie and the one guitar player throws a bunch of the Allman Brothers' Jessica licks in thoughout Amie. #The latest thing we've been working on, more as an excerise, is noodling into a Dark Star jam and taking turns leading the group into other fiddle tunes or songs and back into the Dark Star jam. #

One of the things I love about jambands' music is the whole building up of tension to a crescendo. #I can hear it in my head but it's hard to do or even describe to some of the other bandmembers. #Do any of you have any ideas of how to work on achieving that type of sound?

Also, Ira, where does your band play? #I'd like to try to catch one of your performances.

Vince

[berkeleymando]

bird song is a good one too for long meandering jams.

[Dru Lee Parsec]

that Givens still sounds awesome, even way out here in CA!

Benigus:

You arn't in Southern California by any chance are you? If so are you going to Summergrass this weekend? How about the Julian Bluegrass festival in September?

[Michael H Geimer]

Nor. Cal. ... SF

Sorry, I'm not headed to either of those fests. But, I am going to Strawberry in just a couple weeks!!!!!!!! That's about half-way right?

If you ever decide to head to Strawberry, let me know. I've been meeting up with Duuuude who's been going since ... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif Some other Cafe folks have gone, and it's just a hoot to meet up and pick!

[TeleMark]

that Givens still sounds awesome, even way out here in CA!

Benigus:

You arn't in Southern California by any chance are you? If so are you going to Summergrass this weekend? How about the Julian Bluegrass festival in September?
I'm in Carlsbad. Not going to Summergrass (Stone Anniversary on Saturday, and heading out of town on Sunday..), but I'm hoping to get to Julien. I'm a total noob-picker.

TeleMark

[mandolooter]

Benig...thanks for the compliment on the Givens...it is a special mando, at least to me anyways! I just put some new Schaller tuners on it and now it stays in tune better and is easier to tune-up in the first place also...Im in mando-heaven again!

I totally agree with the learn a song from someone vs tab or notation. I can learn a song in a 1/4 of the time and have it down RIGHT from the beginning without havin to re-learn it the right way later. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I'll miss pickin with you and Duuuude at the Fall'berry but I'll see ya in the spring!

[Michael H Geimer]

'Looter ... the emails are going back-n-forth about getting ready for the 'Berry, and you not being there is definately a 'sore spot' in all the talk. You're missed, but will be there in spirit ... of course, I'd rather that you be there "with spirits", right?

Did I just hear Spring? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

On Topic: One of the staff at the coffee house where we perform asked me last week, "So, how long does it take you to work out those instrumentals you do?" I almost did a spit take! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Our 'instrumetals' consist of a random jam called 'The A Chug' (self-explanitory really), and 'That Latin Groove' ... which actually has two chords!

If you can't blind 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with ....

[mandopete]

Our 'instrumetals' consist of a random jam called 'The A Chug' (self-explanitory really), and 'That Latin Groove' ... which actually has two chords!

If you can't blind 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with ....
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I know exactly what you mean, we used to do tunes like that. #One was called "That Greek Thing" (you get the picture) and another I called "Gratuitous Celti-Grass in D"

[Michael H Geimer]

"That Greek Thing" LOL! I have a co-worker who uses that same phrase whenever I try to play 'Old Joe Clark' http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
(I must not have it down right)

One pseudo-serious use of the uni-chord jam is to 'hang' on the tonic of song and collectively 'noodle'. We'll do this in an effort to (a) establish the right tempo/groove for the song, and (b) stall for time if one of us needs to quietly re-tune. Once were all 'there', then we'll let the dynamic level fall off far enough that whomever has the kick-off can 'step out' and start the song proper. (It has much more audience appeal than the 'dead-air' method of getting in tune)

- Benig

[mandolooter]

aahhh come on now...your gonna make me cry! The way I figure it, I'll be sounding real good since I'll be 1100 miles away...enjoy it while ya can! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[duuuude]

Hey, had a kinda breakthrough last night jammin 'Berry-style with a few folks, the guys neighbor called the cops! What a hoot! Haven't had that happen in a long time, we were all so proud! And we were even playin' acoustic, LOL.
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[Michael H Geimer]

"lit out from Reno, Duuuude was chased by twenty hounds ... "

[mandolooter]

not to be disrespectful, but weren't those pigs instead of hounds? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Im outta here for a local festival that some friends are playing in, should be a lotta fun, sleepin in the Geo Metro (plenty of room LOL), eating ham sandwichs all weekend, pickin like crazy and livin it up in a town with the population of 285. Had more'n twice that in my graduating class. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[mandopete]

"That Greek Thing" LOL! I have a co-worker who uses that same phrase whenever I try to play 'Old Joe Clark' http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
(I must not have it down right)
Mandolin = Bouzouki

[Michael H Geimer]

So do you thinkthe players in Greece ever get asked, "Is that a Bouzo-ukelele?"

(groan)

[duuuude]

So do you thinkthe players in Greece ever get asked, "Is that a Bouzo-ukelele?"
Gonna use that one for yer band scramble joke? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Well, finally stumbled onto the Friend Of The Devil / Blackberry Blossom meld last night when noodlin', very interesting and quite a good workout. If only it were blues ....
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[mandolooter]

Duuuude still got that ticket? #I may be able to get away but it's still up in the air as of right this minute....new schedule is coming out Tues or Wed. and there has been some problems with the folks who preceed me so I just may be able to get outta town. Got my fingers crossed and my voodoo dolls full of pins... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[duuuude]

Well, ya might have to wrestle Benig's friend for it, last I heard it was goin' that way. I sent Mike an email to make sure just in case but pretty sure it's spoken for, but we can definitely find ya one 'tween now & then if need be. Let us know, I'll be goin' up Thursday.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Breaking News: Yer in if'n you can get the time off!

[Michael H Geimer]

Head West! Young 'Looter!

[Dru Lee Parsec]

I'm in Carlsbad. Not going to Summergrass (Stone Anniversary on Saturday, and heading out of town on Sunday..), but I'm hoping to get to Julien. I'm a total noob-picker

I'd love to get together and work on some tunes together. But I have no open weekends at all right now. Telemark. PM me if you want so we can make contact at Julian.

[ira]

so glad that i came back from vaca and this thread is still, well....noodling along! mandovin- we (don't know if i'd call two short fat guys a band-but hey why not!)play at casey's crossing in holliston, ma every other friday (playing this week, which should be interesting as no practice for the better part of a month) hosting the open mic, so do the first set 8:30ish, last set-11:15 ish and any fills,
will also be playing some coffeehouse dates in the franklin-bellingham area in the fall.

come on down and bring your mando.

[MandoVin]

Thanks Ira, it's rare that I get that far east but if I find myself headed in that direction, it'll be good to know of a place for pickin'. #Maybe we'll run into each other sometime. #And let me know if you are ever coming west.
Vince

[mandolooter]

Dan, I didn't mean to hijack your thread with all this ticket talk so to get it back on track I will say I use the G.D method for most every song I learn that I don't have tab for and Im learning to hate tab more and more every day! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[duuuude]

Another thing that sorta bothers me is auditioning for others and they ask you to play a few songs solo. #I would much rather jump in and play with a group instead of showing off my solo chops...
Don't know why but nothin' makes me go blank faster than someone handing me a mando & saying "Play something.", always leaves me starin' blankly while my mind whirls away tryin' to remember what to do with that thing in my hands.
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[Michael H Geimer]

I was at my very first festival, and probably was on the scene no more than twenty mintues when Duuuude says to me, "I think there's a jam up the road. Let's go."

So, we head up and sure enough there is this jam, and we arrive just as a tune is finishing up. They all look right at me and say, "So what have you got?" It worked out just fine, but ... Uuuugh.
* * *
Some people might imagine they were being 'sized up', but I've since started to think about it differently. First, it's just polite to offer a newcomer the opportunity of calling a tune. But it also helps defines those who will be calling tunes during the jam, and those who might want to just hang back. (As a singer, I greatly appreciate knowing who else will be calling tunes, as it frees me up from having to think ahead about the next set of lyrics. In the jam above, they were tired of singing their songs, and really just wanted a 'fresh voice'.)

Imagine a jam where no one has brought any tunes to call? Boooooring ... 'space jams' can only go so far, IMHO. Perhaps we all should try bringing at least one dish to share at these musical pot luck gatherings?

I'm not sure this quite on topic, other than expressing my opinion that the GD method benefits a lot in conjuction with the stricker guidelines of Bluegrass jamming ... as long as that flexible, freedom to wander is maintained.

- Benig

[duuuude]

Ah, but there's nothing like goin' through a familiar tune five or six different ways when all the sudden it takes a life of it's own, like hitting a certain combination that unlocks a whole new nature of the tune, and it's been there all along unnoticed. Guess it's all in the approach, it can be the same ol' thing or it can be taken to new places.
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[mandopete]

Perhaps we all should try bringing at least one dish to share at these musical pot luck gatherings?
This is something I try to do before going to a festival. #Each time I try to work up a tune that I can either sing or play so I will have something to add to the jam.

With that in mind I'm working on "Colly Davis" from the Newgrass Revival for the Chilliwack Festival. #I just recently discovered this song and thought it would make a good festival tune. I'm thinking they play it pretty fast and I'm interesting in trying it at different tempos and key signatures.

Not sure where were heading with this thread, but I suspect that if we're just jammin', then go with it.

[Michael H Geimer]

" Not sure where were heading with this thread ... "

It's a Gratefull Dead Method Thread ... it goes where it goes.

At that first jam I described above, I learned real quick that most of the songs I kew were either in weird keys, or had non-intuitive changes. (The first song I called was Tennessee Stud in B)

Now I think I've got a handle on what sort of tunes work well among strangers. The next challenge is to find interesting tunes that not everyone else is playing. (I recently had worked up this great mile-a-minute real 'Carter-style' take on Wabash Cannonball, then someone called the tune ahead of me. So I missed out.)

I'm heading to Strawberry this weekend with a new take on Home on the Range.

But, what I'm really hoping to find is a jam where we can mix up the Bluegrass with the Dead Method. I don't know why it's been difficult to find ... or create.

Maybe the Dead style relies on people who know each other pretty well, and thus just doesn't work as well among strangers. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Anyone try this sort of stuff in non-regular jam settings. How did it come across?

- Benig

[ira]

it sure helps if you know each other, but its not a necessity. folks who can listen, are willing to share and explore can take any song and make it new.

[duuuude]

"Anyone try this sort of stuff in non-regular jam settings. How did it come across?"

Actually a friend and I had a couple "new" players join our regular blues jam which went fine with new tunes & such, but the BEST part was when we just started noodlin' on nothin' in particular & passing that around. Without the "structure" of a real tune, there was more creativity flowin' than during any of the "real" tunes we played, and everybody seemed more natural and at ease. But then, it coulda been the beer too.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Michael H Geimer]

Hmmm ... I've never had trouble getting a jam to go 'out there'. It seems to me the crux of the GD method is getting everyone to *come back*!

Last sunday we started off on an E-jam thing. I thought we we're all on the same page with heading into "Folsom". Parker usually kicks off FPB, so I leaned over and said, "Whenever you're ready." He said, "OK here we go ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ...', and then where he would normally play the intro line, he just STOPPED COLD!

Dave and I looked at each other in complete surprise, and since my foot was still keeping time, I grabbed that kick-off at the next measure and OFF WE WENT! "I can hear that whistle blowin' ... "

Sooooo ... that's the sort of comunication breakdown I'm talking about.

[Lee]

Now don't get me wrong here; I'm a veteran of many a show, and look forwards to the next tour. Just wanna relate a rather funny critique a friend once said.
"The Grateful Dead are the only band who can write a really good tune, and then forget how to play it".
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[duuuude]

"The Grateful Dead are the only band who can write a really good tune, and then forget how to play it".
Good one! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

(maybe Benig will foget how to play Home On The Range) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mandopete]

I'm heading to Strawberry this weekend with a new take on Home on the Range.
Is that the one about Tiger Woods?

I know what you mean about trying to take a jame session "out there". #Truth in the matter is that most bluegrass jams wont go there and many of the younger players (see post above) don't know how to go there.

A couple of years ago I brought a "flip-chart" on an easel as way to write out some chord changes and provide a way to communicate some ideas - boy that went over like a lead balloon!

I have found that once a jam has run a full course of "standard" songs and tunes, it's a lot easier to get people to take a chance and stretch the envelope. #I've been doing this up at the Chilliwack festival on Sunday night (last night of the festival) at about 2:00AM and have had pretty good luck.

[ira]

waiting till 2am to jam- you are a madman pete!

[mandopete]

2:00AM? That's just the shank of the evening!

[duuuude]

A couple of years ago I brought a "flip-chart" on an easel as way to write out some chord changes and provide a way to communicate some ideas - boy that went over like a lead balloon!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hey Benig, that gives me an idea ......
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[Michael H Geimer]

I have a feeling with Duuuude and I both participating in this thread *and* meeting up at Strawberry, we'll probably get into some 'out there' jams.

I hope I can get some of the folks I've picked with at prior fests to loosen up and think outside the (Monroe) box.

We've mentioned the all important factor of 'actively listening' to the other players, but I think there also needs to be a willingness to 'bend the rules' without actually breaking them.

As you point out Pete, the younger players perhaps have a certain distain for rules, or just never learned them, while the older set wouldn't dare overstep the boundaries of Monroe's original vision of Bluegrass.

I am determined to find some like-minded jammers at Strawberry this year, or blister my fingers trying!

- Benig

[mandopete]

As you point out Pete, the younger players perhaps have a certain distain for rules, or just never learned them, while the older set wouldn't dare overstep the boundaries of Monroe's original vision of Bluegrass.
It's not that, too many of them are learning to play by just "copying" everything. #It's far too easy to load a program into your computer and slow down the hot, new Chris Thile tune and learn it note-for-note. #It's entirely another thing to use your ears and brain to guide you.

This was something that was drilled into my pea-sized brain by spending my formative musical years in the jazz idiom. #I suspect that a good number of the top-notch bluegrass players are good at listening, improvising and interacting with other musicians. #It's just something that we may need to remind ourselves about instead of locking into our own world when in a "jam" situation.

[Michael H Geimer]

" ... too many of them are learning to play by just "copying" everything. "

Thank you! Keep saying that ... LOUDER!

[mandopete]

TOO MANT OF THEM ARE LEARNING TO PLAY BY JUST "COPYING" EVERYTHING.

[ira]

LOUDER PLEASE PETE!

[mandopete]

TOO MANY OF THEM ARE LEARNING TO PLAY BY JUST "COPYING" EVERYTHING