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sprucetop1
Feb-18-2009, 4:47pm
I've attached pics. of a mandolin that turned up in the shop this week. It was purchased in London, UK about 20 years ago. I've never seen one like it. It is quite well made...the neck is dead straight, and there's a lot of interesting detail work. It has a second spruce soundboard or tone chamber inside the soundbox. The machine heads are delicately built and work well. The top is solid spruce, but the back is laminated. The tone of the instrument is very pleasant with good volume. The fretting is very accurate. The metal bridge (adjustable) is an interesting feature. There are 10 strings, with the E and A having 3 strings each and the D and G the conventional 2 each.

Can anyone identify the age and origin of this instrument........anyone seen one like it?.......thanks....John

jeff mercer
Feb-18-2009, 4:54pm
Sprucetop,
From your description of the stringing arrangement, the instrument is a Tiple, not a Mandolin.

manjitsu
Feb-18-2009, 4:58pm
Well, the shape of the headstock and the tortoiseshell surrounding the soundhole are almost identical to a DeMeglio bowlback I have. Beyond that, I haven't a clue what you've got there ... I've never seen a DeMeglio that wasn't a bowlback.

-Chris

jeff mercer
Feb-18-2009, 5:10pm
Actually, Sprucetop, I take that back !
( Should've looked closer at your photos :whistling: )
Tiples have the inner two string sets tripled, not the top two.

sprucetop1
Feb-18-2009, 5:20pm
Jeff...thanks for your posts. Most pics. of tiples that I have seen have shown guitar-shaped insts. This one has all the characteristics of a mandolin. Scale length is 13 ins.
The nut is brass and is a neat cross between a zero fret and a full nut design. There is some sort of brass fitment between the underside of the spruce top, and the second spruce internal soundboard. At first I thought it was a soundpost....but it doesn't contact the internal soundboard at all...it's a mystery. I cannot find any makers name anywhere. I've been playing it for 30 mins. or so and it has a really nice and unusual sound. The triple course E and A strings are an interesting feature. Action is very low and intonation is excellent. Top and back are domed....I would assume via curved braces. Heelblock is cross-grained spruce. The neck joint is very solid. Wish it was mine!.....John

Shelagh Moore
Feb-18-2009, 5:52pm
I used to have an instrument very similar to this long ago, inherited from my father. I would have put the age of that one round about 1920s/30s. The stringing arrangement was the same, the only difference to this one being the decoration on the tortoiseshell round the soundhole. The headstock design was the same. My father used to call it a Portuguese mandolin but I believe it was a type of mandolin-family instrument known as a mandriola which typically has triple courses.

sprucetop1
Feb-18-2009, 5:59pm
Another unusual feature is the cross brace attached to the top just behind the bridge to apply downward force to the strings and bridge. This can be seen in pic. 2 above. I would assume this is screwed into some sort of reinforcing plate under the top.
There's a lot of evidence of original design thinking in this mandolin. Its structural integrity is very good with little or no warping or movement...there is a 3 in. crack in the top though.

dave17120
Feb-19-2009, 6:18am
Hi John, without label its impossible to tell who made it. I am certain that many of the parts used to build mandolins were 'out-sourced' and so many instruments have the same type of scratch plate, tuners, tail piece, and even bridge sometimes, but were made by different luthiers.

10 string is unusual.... a mandriola has 12 strings, all triple courses (2 strings normal, 1 an octave lower). Head is 'de Meglio-esque', but many de Meglio copyists used that style head too. Scratch is dM-style too, but same comment.

Bridge is one of the early all metal adjustables, a killer for the sound table as the 'footprint' is way too small. Tensioner is quite common on lots of bowlbacks, especially where the string profile is very flat.

I've no idea if it has a specific name, but I'll email a freind in Italy, and see if he knows.

AND.......... what are you going to do with it? Best regards, Dave

sprucetop1
Feb-19-2009, 9:39am
Dave, Thanks v. much for interesting comments re. the mandolin. I'll be interested to see if your Italian contact has further info. The instructions from the owner are to repair the top crack and generally tidy up the instrument. Although the finish is very road-worn with a lot of play wear, scuffs and dings, I prefer not to refinish old insts. like this...although this is what I've been asked to do. The laminated back has multiple cracks in (i assume) the outer layer of the laminations only, and I may try to get some glue in there to improve things. The sides look to be Brazilian rosewood...but are likely again to be laminated. There's some glue failure around the tailblock area which can be repaired. I'm going to attempt minimally invasive work....the general structure is sound I think....and the mandolin has stood 10 strings worth of tension for a long time......John

dave17120
Feb-20-2009, 10:26am
Hello John, my contact in Italy says.....

"my brother Antonio called an old neapolitan liutersit Antonio Masiello. The mandolin you sent the link for was an experimentation, not for concert.
They were done with a number of strings higher than the traditional ones to give them more sonority.
In the opinion of my brother Antonio and Masiello it's neapolitan made.
They agree with you that it could be done by De Meglio or a copyst of him."

So it sounds a bit like a combination of the more famous Gelas double top, and experimentation with string combinations. What a pity it doesn't have a label..... a piece of interesting history there. Dave

sprucetop1
Feb-20-2009, 12:16pm
Dave....thanks for doing the research on the mandolin....I'll pass the info. on to the owner. Can you expand a bit on the "Gelas double top". Also, if it is De Meglio made...when were they building? Presumably they were an Italian concern......one man, a family or a factory?....thanks....John

Martin Jonas
Feb-20-2009, 12:28pm
I would have thought that the more relevant comparison is Umberto Ceccherini, a Naples luthier active from around 1880 to 1910, rather than Gelas. Ceccherini's unique design feature was the use of a second soundboard suspended inside the sound chamber, which is what you have described. The second soundboard used by Gelas was of very different design. Do a search on the Cafe for "Gelas" and "Ceccherini" and you will find detailed descriptions and photographs of both systems of double tops.

The 10-string layout is also something used by Umberto Ceccherini: I used to own a Ceccherini 10-string and like yours it had triple strings on the A and E courses and double strings on D and G. Ceccherini also used de-Meglio-like scratchplates, again like yours, and sold all his instruments exclusively through the shop of Alban Voigt in London (which is where yours has surfaced).

However, every Ceccherini I have ever seen was a bowlback and although he used some de Meglio design elements, his headstock shapes were Vinaccia-like, quite different from the typical de Meglio headstock on yours. Also, although this may be difficult to assess from the photographs alone, Ceccerini's instruments were generally more gracefully made and with more filigrane decoration than on yours. Maybe a copyist who used elements from both de Meglio and Ceccherini in an experimental flatback.

Martin