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Joe Nethery
Feb-16-2009, 3:25pm
Hi,

Any chance of starting a beginners section, or checking with others to see if they may be interested?

Thanks!

MikeEdgerton
Feb-16-2009, 3:29pm
If we have a beginners section and none of the experienced folks visit it then you miss out on what they have to offer. Are we making it unfriendly for those starting out?

Bob Andress
Feb-16-2009, 3:43pm
I'll give you my thoughts on that, as a beginner myself:

It's all a beginners section. When you have a question the first thing you should do is search past threads to see if it has been asked/answered already. Chances are good that it has. If not, you can post your question. The best part of this site is that it will be answered by someone who has the knowledge and experience to help you out. We're lucky to have an open forum like this where all skill levels can come together to make each other better players. And never have I been made to feel silly for asking a question. Everyone here was a beginner at some point, right?

If there's an intimidation factor involved with your request, now is a good time to get over it. You'll always find someone who is better than you at just about everything you try. The best thing you can do is ask, watch and listen. There is, in my view, no better way to aid your playing than that.

Unless there is another purpose to a beginners section that I'm missing, I think you'll be happy here.
Some of the most helpful people I've never met are here on this site every day.
Just my thoughts.

Welcome to the Cafe, Joe! Your first hot mug is on me ~o)

Scott Tichenor
Feb-16-2009, 3:44pm
The fact that we don't have a beginners section is a decision settled on almost ten years ago. It's not an oversight on my part. I really don't want to segment members by one or more levels for a lot of reasons I could go into at length (and have in the past if anyone can find them). Part of this is so we avoid a fairly common occurrence of someone gaining a little experience and then trying to pass themselves off as seasoned pros on something--self-appointed "experts" that really aren't. We can live with everyone having an equal shot at answering questions, and often what seems a simple question will morph into more interesting discussion.

Those with a lot of experience and expertise can choose to assist and often do. But having someone self-appoint themselves as the helper of a beginners section is something I really want to avoid, as would be the predictable "take it to the newbie section" comments we'd have a few tossing out. We don't need that. And, bad advice by someone that doesn't know better should be open to scrutiny by all. We should all be big enough to chip in to help someone out that is at that point in their development that most of us were at one time.

Joe Nethery
Feb-16-2009, 3:45pm
Not unfriendly at all! Didn't think my question came across that way. Sorry to have bothered you.

Scott Tichenor
Feb-16-2009, 3:50pm
I don't think Mike's post was meant as it appears you've taken it.

MikeEdgerton
Feb-16-2009, 4:00pm
I didn't take it as a bother, I just wanted to know if we were doing something unfriendly. We actually try to be helpful to anyone and nobody should be feel like they can't ask a question here. I'd say new member slim_pickens said it best and he's new. We probably get 10 or so first time questions a week, some go on for months. Here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/search.php?query=newbie&exactname=0&starteronly=0&forumchoice%5B%5D=&prefixchoice%5B%5D=&childforums=1&titleonly=1&searchdate=0&beforeafter=after&do=process) are five pages of questions that contain the word newbie in the title. That's a small portion of the questions asked by beginners.

Here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/search.php?query=beginner&exactname=0&starteronly=0&forumchoice%5B%5D=&prefixchoice%5B%5D=&childforums=1&titleonly=1&searchdate=0&beforeafter=after&do=process) are even more pages that have the word beginner in the title.

If anyone feels strange asking questions as a new member of the cafe take a look through those threads and see if your question is there or simply post the question. As Scott said, all of us were beginners at one time.

MikeEdgerton
Feb-16-2009, 4:17pm
One other thing, If you don't feel comfortable posting a message and if you can't figure out how the search function works but you'd still like to know about a subject feel free to send me a Private Message and I'll see if I can locate some message threads for you.

man dough nollij
Feb-16-2009, 4:54pm
Mike is the searchmeister!

Lonesomedog
Feb-16-2009, 8:19pm
I would like a few honest, unbiased opinions on Michael Kelly mandolins. I just joined the cafe and have been unable to find the subject in your search. Is this an appropriate question? If so, how do I post it? Thank you.

Lonesomedog/jpchilton@hotmail.com

MikeEdgerton
Feb-16-2009, 8:37pm
You would go to Looking for Information about Mandolins section and post the question. It's generally easier if you ask about a specific model that you're looking for.

Before you do that take a walk through these (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/search.php?query=Michael+Kelly&exactname=0&starteronly=0&forumchoice%5B%5D=&prefixchoice%5B%5D=&childforums=1&titleonly=1&searchdate=0&beforeafter=after&do=process) threads.

Keep in mind also that on the cafe a Michael Kelly is often referred to as an MK.

Frank Johnson
Feb-17-2009, 9:36am
[QUOTE=Slim_Pickins;630492]I'll give you my thoughts on that, as a beginner myself: It's all a beginners section. QUOTE]

I never thought about the question nor the above answer, but that answer hits the nail on the head!

Many of the starter threads are "way above my pay grade", but I still read a lot of them. Other threads have been answered before. I appreciate the short answer that gives a link or two to past posts because the link helps me follow up.... especially when I can't figger out what words to use in a search!

ApK
Feb-17-2009, 5:25pm
I'll say that I have never missed a beginner's section here. Actually, until this thread, I didn't realize there WASN'T one.

However, to play Devil's Advocate (again), I can give a couple reasons why a beginners section might be a good idea.
Over on the acousticguitar.com forums, the beginner section was my hangout for several years, and based on my experience there, as friendly as forum might be, it is still nice for a beginners to see what amounts to a big flashing "Welcome Beginners! Enter HERE!" sign.
It's less threatening to make your first few posts in an area where you're being told that beginner questions are welcome explicitly.
Also, on the cafe just as over there, gear heads hang out in the gear section, and long-hairs gather in the classical section, and sometimes it's nice to start introducing yourself in a section where you expect to find people in a similar position as yourself.
Much like starting out by going to an announced slow jam, rather than just trying to sit in with a random group in a parking lot....they may welcome beginners, they may not, but in a slow jam, you know what to expect going in.
On the flip side, knowledgeable people and ersatz-knowledgeable people will both answer beginner questions (or not) no matter where they are posted. With a beginner section, experienced folk know what to expect to find there. They can choose to participate or they can choose to avoid that section.
Plus for searching reasons, it may be nice to have a high concentration of "how do I get started" type questions all gathered in one section, because that's easier to browse and search.

ApK

29er
Feb-17-2009, 5:48pm
I agree with Slim Pickins. As a beginner myself I find this whole site a beginners paradise :)

However, since I come from a guitar background, much of learning a new stringed instrument comes somewhat naturally to me (learning new chord shapes, scales, etc)

The OP may have a point is he is completely new to playing an instrument. If that's the case then I would recommend getting lessons from a good teacher as well as perusing this site.

As a new player & user of this site, I don't think a beginners section is needed.

JEStanek
Feb-17-2009, 6:20pm
I've chimed in in the past when folks have floated the idea of a beginners area or beginners FAQ.

I've rarely seen beginners or new members get beat down for asking the same old questions that they/we all have. Frequently newer folks will get the odd request to do a search but our search isn't the most intuitive one around and they require a certain level of internet that not everyone has.

Second, those repeated first questions have changed over the years that I have been here (e.g., good starter mandolin, where can I get music, etc). I, for one, like answering the newer members posts. A final thought, I'll compare the Café to the Mandolin Symposium where beginners are encouraged to go and participate. They can learn what they need immediately and get inspired to greater things beyond their current level too.

Jamie

MikeEdgerton
Feb-17-2009, 7:28pm
...it may be nice to have a high concentration of "how do I get started" type questions all gathered in one section, because that's easier to browse and search.

If you couldn't search the cafe as it stands now you wouldn't be able to search the beginners section, it's the same search engine.

papa willie
Feb-17-2009, 9:11pm
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

ApK
Feb-17-2009, 10:12pm
If you couldn't search the cafe as it stands now you wouldn't be able to search the beginners section, it's the same search engine.

BROWSE and search....as in go in to the section and find what you're looking for, because a lot of people don't or can't use the search engine, at least at first.

mandozilla
Feb-18-2009, 2:27am
papa willie said:

"If it ain't broke don't fix it."

I'll second that! :grin:

But, it might be nice to have a Forum or Thread where newbies could introduce themselves and be welcomed into the cafe...I dunno... :confused:

Maybe they would be more comfortable starting in there. :mandosmiley:

Bob Andress
Feb-18-2009, 9:18am
I was talking with a friend this morning who has played guitar for 20 years. He's a born again mando player now and he shared with me this observation: Many guitarists seem to try to one-up each other. "They all wanna be rock stars". He noticed that this is completely different in the mando community. Most mando players would rather help others get up to speed and give praise and/or encouragement. That's certainly what I have found here. Perhaps the OP comes from the guitar world and isn't used to such fine folks. Now, before you start throwing things at me, I ain't sayin guitar players are bad, and I can assume that there may be one or two arrogant mando players out there somewhere :whistling: This was just an observation and may be the reason this thread began. And if nothing else, it's a testament to the great culture that we have here at the Cafe and the mando community in general.

I have learned so much in the last three months from everyone here. I can't imagine how slow my progress would be if not for the collective wisdom that is shared here everyday.

Joe, if you're still out there, stick around and poke around a bit. You'll be glad you did.

Joe Nethery
Feb-18-2009, 2:00pm
I'm still here. I've been poking around in the other areas if the forums. There's a lot of expertise and valuable information to be found.

Joe

Rick Schmidlin
Feb-18-2009, 2:15pm
In 2004 I was a beginner now I am going to the next level. This is partly due to praticing two to three hours a day. The other part is the Mandolin Cafe where all levels can share in many creative and educated ways.

Joel Spaulding
Feb-18-2009, 2:22pm
I'm with TM on this one. The "journey" of searching through old threads, looking up info in the glossary, following links for definitions, refering to other publications - and as Rick mentions, the exposure to players of all levels really keeps the learning experience fresh and dare I say... motivational. ~o)

Countrygirl
Feb-19-2009, 11:04am
~o) Search and you shall recieve! Lots of good information here..

lindylou
Mar-08-2009, 6:25am
Hi, I joined yesterday!! I.m an 'improving beginner' fiddler who loves mandolins so I'm off to sort one out - and someone to teach me.

I've been a lurker so have read a few posts now. Can I put my two-ha'pence worth in?

I think a Beginners Section might be counter-productive for all sorts of reasons. But agree with Mandozilla (LOVE the nose-pickin'!) that a place to introduce yourself might be a nice idea. I've done it here - but to anyone who doesn't read this thread I'll have just snuck in!

Great site - looking forward to learning a lot.

Kay Kirkpatrick
Mar-08-2009, 12:06pm
I agree with Lindylou and Mandozilla about the introductions section.

Overcast
Mar-11-2009, 6:45pm
And if you find a thread particularly useful - go to "Thread Tools" and subscribe to it - makes it easy to find later.

mandozilla
Mar-11-2009, 7:52pm
I'd like to say welcome to Joe and lindylou you're in for quite an adventure! :grin:

I'd probably advance my picking a h**l of a lot faster if I didn't spend so much time on the Cafe...HaHaHa :))

But all seriousness aside, you WILL NOT find a better mandolin resource than this Forum and there's no such thing as a dumb mando question...this is definitely the Aladdins' Cave of the mandolin world! :cool:

:mandosmiley:

JeffD
Mar-14-2009, 2:27pm
Many guitarists seem to try to one-up each other. "They all wanna be rock stars". He noticed that this is completely different in the mando community. Most mando players would rather help others get up to speed and give praise and/or encouragement.


I think you are correct. I have been often tempted to make the same observation, but was too timid, and thought it was just further evidence of my mando-centric prejudice.

Which it is, but that doesn't mean it isn't often true.


I was a manolin beginner way back when, and I was floundering around for a year or two before I met anyone who played mandolin. A resource like this would have been a miracle from heaven.

Another reason for avoiding a "beginners section", I would argue, is that while I always encourage beginners, I don't want folks to get so comfortable as a beginner that forward movement is inhibited.

I have always done best when there was no obvious front door, just jump in and swim out to the edges.