Eastman info [Archive] - Mandolin Cafe Forum

JEStanek

Feb-13-2009, 8:57pm

Chris,

I'm glad you're enjoying learning about the mandolin. This section of the forum is mainly for forum issues (how do I post a photo, my avatar won't show up, how can I sort my views, etc). This question will get the most visibility in the Looking For Information about Mandolins section. Don't worry about asking too many questions, that's the point of a discussion board, yes? Using the sections to your advantage will get you faster better answers.

To your question. I like the Eastman line of instruments. They are hand carved and hand finished and look and sound very good for the money. I've had both an oval holed and now an f holed instrument from them. They have a narrower neck than many with a pronounced V shaped neck profile and skinny vintage style fretwire.

Their main competitors would be the Kentucky KM1000 model, which I haven't played. Others in a similar price range will include J Bovier, Jade (another hand crafted instrument made in a smaller shop in China), the Loar 600 or 700 series, and maybe some others. A final point about the Eastman line. They are all made equally well from quality materials. The least expensive and the most expensive will differ more in terms of their accouterments more than their tone increasing as you go up the line (e.g., more binding, flashier woods etc). If you want a fully bound instrument, that's cool, you'll just pay more for it, it won't make it sound any better. An A style instrument will cost much less as there is less carving (scrolls) and it is easier to bind than an F style instrument. If you love the look of the F go for it, but don't expect an Eastman F to sound better than an Eastman A style just because of the scroll. Ideally, get to a shop where you can try a bunch and by the nicest playing and sounding instrument you can afford regardless of the name on the headstock.

I'm a beginner player and truthfully any of these instruments could be all you need for ever. The most important thing, in my opinion, when buying a mandolin is that it comes well set up from the shop/store. A $200,000 mandolin can be as bad to play than a $100 if they aren't set up well. Be sure where ever you buy from the instrument gets adjusted before shipping. Our Café sponsors are a good place to start looking. Saving a few bucks from an E-bay or big store shipper may yield and instrument that won't let you play on it.

Jamie

Ted Eschliman

Feb-13-2009, 9:00pm

Thread moved from Support Forum to Information about Mandolins by Moderator

allenhopkins

Feb-14-2009, 12:00am

Eastman instruments are excellent for the price, IMHO. I own two of the larger mandolin family instruments, an Eastman 615 mandola and an 805 mandocello. I couldn't have approached their quality in a domestic instrument for one and a half times the price.

Not that they're perfect, or without issues, but the construction, fit and finish, and overall design made them each a good choice. If you search, you'll find threads with extended discussion of Eastmans, pro and con, but mostly pro. One thing I would say I found, that has been echoed by others posting here: don't go entirely by the price ranking of the Eastman models to evaluate quality. When I bought the 615 mandola, I had the choice of an "800" series instrument as well, and to my ears the "600" series instrument sounded better. Basically the higher series have more ornamentation, gold-plated hardware, somewhat more figured wood, etc. Many Cafe posters have remarked that Eastman's "500" or basic instruments sound as good as or better than the higher ones. So find a dealer with a spectrum of Eastman mandolins, and find the one that works for you -- that's my recommendation.

Jim Nollman

Feb-14-2009, 12:53am

You won't find hardly any complaints here about Eastmans. I own a 515 and play it everyday. It is woody, loud, and has that growl you expect from an f5 costing twice the price. I don't think you necessarily get a better sound with the more expensive models, and many here agree with that assessment. Personally I think the JBovier is not in the same league as far as fit and finish, although that instrument with the zebra wood back sure is pretty. Eastmans are often described as the best of the Asian imports, and perhaps as good an assembly line instrument as you can find these days.

Kip

Feb-14-2009, 1:22am

Chris,
Yet another nod for the Eastman. I have an 804 (oval hole A) that I play every day for folk/jazz/rock stuff and really have fallen in love with it. I second the suggestion to play it first if at all possible, and agree that the lower end Eastmans can sound great. My local shop had both the f and a models- I played both and though I was suffering from scroll envy I couldn't deny that the A sounded better.

So it's on law away- MAS has struck again!

Chris Fino

Feb-14-2009, 7:55am

Jestanek,allenh,beluga & kip,
thanks for the replies and info on eastman.sorry about posting ?'s here, i saw the title and thought this was it.
from here on out i'll hit the other forum.
i heard good things about the Eastman stuff, figured i'd check before actually purchasing one.
i'm looking for an oval hole "f" in a mandola. i have a weber yellow stone f that i like very much.years back i had an old gibson "a" with oval hole and kinda dug the tone on that,saw an eastman and wondered if they were a better build than those micheal kelly things.
o.k, well thanks for the input again.i'm going to navigate to the other forum/question arena.
sorry for that and thanks,maybe we'll see you guys there.
chris

Bob Andress

Feb-14-2009, 9:34am

Here's another nod. I bought a 515 from themandolinstore.com and I'm very happy. They did a great set up also. It sounds great. As mentioned, get to some stores and try a bunch out. You may find that you don't like the feel of the neck or the size of the frets. You may find something else that really speaks to you. If it feels good in your hands and you like the sound, go for it. with the 515 I feel that I got a great sounding hand carved f style for less than 1k. And when I play it for a while and she wakes up....ohh she sounds even better.

Enjoy your search! Good luck.

LKN2MYIS

Feb-14-2009, 9:42am

Love my Eastman MD904D.

Looks great, sounds great, plays beautifully. No regrets at all.

JEStanek

Feb-14-2009, 9:47am

I don't believe Eastman makes oval holed Dolas, Chris. For a similar price (Eastman Mandola) you could get a nice lower end used Weber mandola if you like the Weber neck.

Jamie

Caleb

Feb-14-2009, 10:08am

I own an Eastman 505 that I enjoy very much. I won't say it's "nice for the price," since I've never understood the logic of that argument. In my view, an instrument is either nice or it's not, regardless of price paid. Is a Gibson received as a gift no good since it was free? Is a Collings won in a contest no good since one didn't have to pay for it? Is a low-end Fender/Rover/Rogue no good if it holds tune, plays well and brings its owner joy because it was $150?

My Eastman holds tune very well, has nice overall tone and volume, and allows me to play the music I want to play. I cannot ask for much more. Is it the "best sounding" mandolin I've ever picked up? Not by any stretch. But placed in capable hands it can do what most any instrument can do.

I once owned a Kentucky that had a nicer, woodier tone than the Eastman does. The Eastman is mellower with a more rounded sound. All the other Eastmans I've played had the same characteristic as well. If you like that sound (and I do) I recommend an Eastman. If you like the woodier tone I'd try for a Kentucky.

MikeEdgerton

Feb-14-2009, 11:23am

Does Kentucky make a mandola? I don't think they do.

Ted Eschliman

Feb-14-2009, 11:29am

No Kentucky Mandola, the sister series (from Saga) features the Trinity College TM-275 (http://www.sagamusic.com/catalog/details.asp?ProductID=TM-275).

http://www.sagamusic.com/catalog/images/TM-275.jpg

groveland

Feb-14-2009, 11:50am

Eastmans are often described as the best of the Asian imports, and perhaps as good an assembly line instrument as you can find these days.
To be clear, Eastmans (http://www.eastmanmandolins.com/workshop/tour1.html) are not made on an automated "factory floor" kind of assembly line by any stretch, but it is a shop. Also, I am very happy with my 614, if we're taking testimonials here. And, it was very, very, very inexpensive, too. That makes it a great value, or as we say, "Great for the money."

MikeEdgerton

Feb-14-2009, 12:18pm

No Kentucky Mandola, the sister series (from Saga) features the Trinity College TM-275 (http://www.sagamusic.com/catalog/details.asp?ProductID=TM-275).

OK, so I didn't miss anything. A suggestion to buy a Kentucky isn't going to fly because they don't actually make a mandola. I'm going back to sleep now.

JEStanek

Feb-14-2009, 12:48pm

groveland

Feb-14-2009, 3:51pm

The Trinity College OM is often referred to as an excellent starter OM. I like mine. I've been tempted to get into the mandola that way. I think Beluga's reference to assembly line is apt in that the Eastman instruments have different people doing different tasks by hand on the instruments (Domestic (US) production companies work in this model similarly). I didn't read it as a negative rather to distinguish them from a small shop where each instrument is made by one person. See their shop tour here (http://www.eastmanmandolins.com/workshop/tour1.html). Groveland has it linked in his post too...

Jamie

I didn't read it as negative either, at all, in the least. It was good to make the distinction so those unfamiliar with Eastman don't get the wrong impression.

I don't know about how Saga turns out their instruments (big factory, small shop, or what) but I do like their stuff, in particular the TCs.

fernmando

Feb-14-2009, 10:51pm

Well, it took a killer 2000 Gibson Fern to get my Eastman 615 out of my hands. My 615 was a great mando, even better after mandovoodoo. I'm still listed as an endorser on the Eastman website, and I don't mind. We're still friendly. I paid an adjusted price for my Eastman, by the way, before the endorsement police show up. I was happy to do so, as their full price is reasonable enough.
As far as my Gibby is concerned, no endorsement there. Maybe I should get some black tape?? Just kidding, of course.
Eastman is a small/medium shop, well run and very antiquated in terms of automation.

pager

Feb-15-2009, 8:51pm

As most members on the cafe know, I am an Eastman fan.
Eastman only hand builds around 600 mandolins a year, which certainly does not qualify them as an assembly line company.

My Eastman 515 and my Collings MF5, receive equal stage and festival use.
We do two sets of Jazzgrass per performance and the Eastman is used for all of the jazz sets. It has a great smokey jazz sound that I can't get on the Collings (or my last Gibson). For our bluegrass sets, I usually use the Collings. I love and use both of them!

Jillian

MikeEdgerton

Feb-15-2009, 10:59pm

...Eastman only hand builds around 600 mandolins a year, which certainly does not qualify them as an assembly line company...

Eastman doesn't exist on 600 mandolins a year so the no assembly line thing isn't really true. They build instruments in batches like everyone else does. If all they produced was 600 mandolins a year they probably couldn't support their office in the US and their manufacturing facility in China. I know everyone wants to feel good about what they have but they really are no different than any high quality instrument builder. I'm sure that Bill Collings understands using the assembly line approach the same way the folks at Eastman do. It's not a dirty label to have. I keep seeing this line spouted here but the truth is they don't start one mandolin and wait until it's done to start another. One person doesn't do everything from inception to end on one instrument. It may not be a Henry Ford assembly line but it really is done in the same manner. You build the piece you're responsible for and pass it to the next person. Don't labor under the idea that it doesn't happen that way, it does. This isn't a Hans Brentrup type shop where one man does it all.

Mace

Feb-16-2009, 3:34am

That said neither do Martin, Gibson, Collins, etc operate a production facility "where one man does it all". I love and support custom shop builders. I believe Eastman is making quality instruments including mandolins, mandolas, mandocellos, guitars, violins, upright basses. I believe they will continue to be a company to be considered. We are in a global market place. The sooner we accept the fact and let our eyes, ears and touch be our judge regardless of cost and country of origin the sooner we will all be better off. Now if Eastman will only enter the octave mandolin market we will have another builder to consider. Its all good.

Chuck Naill

Feb-16-2009, 7:33am

I have bought three Eastman products, two violins (VL100 & VL200) and the 504 oval hole mandolin. I have been very impressed with the tone and finish. I did replace a sagging mandolin bridge with a Cumberland Acoustic.

MikeEdgerton

Feb-16-2009, 8:21am

That said neither do Martin, Gibson, Collins, etc operate a production facility "where one man does it all"....

Without a doubt. That doesn't diminish the value of the instruments being made. It's just a realistic explanation.

pager

Feb-16-2009, 1:34pm

Dear Abby and Mike:

I certainly did not mean to mislead anyone with incorrect information. Certainly an Eastman is not built by one person! But they also do not use a lot of automation in their production. I still believe their production numbers are small. I may be wrong here (if I am, I am sure someone will pounce on me) but if you look at the current Eastman mandolin serial numbers (still very low) and compare those to the number of years they have been building them, the number per year cannot be very large. When Gordan was with Eastman in the beginning years, I was informed by an Eastman rep that the output was a few hundred a year. I remember a post by Stephen Perry a year or so back that also said the Eastman mandolin production numbers were a few hundred a year. I know they are not cranking out 10,000 of those a year. Also remember that mandolins are not all that Eastman makes. They are certainly known for their violins and now they are making archtops and guitars.

Was I misinformed by the Eastman rep? Did I misread Stephen's post? Am I just a ditsy 28 year old brunette? Can I help it that I look like a young Ali McGraw? So many questions, so many questions.

Maybe Sean, Stephen or Gordon can chime in and correct me on my possible misunderstanding of production numbers.

Confused in Colorado

jillian

pager

Feb-16-2009, 2:00pm

Here is one of the quotes from Stephen regarding Eastman output, but it was not the exact one I remember reading...
"Is Eastman a big builder? I'm not really in tune with the overall mandolin market density. They seem to have made perhaps 200 in the first whatever it is, 14 months or so. Going on the serial numbers and extrapolating a little. How does that stack up with others?"

Stephen's post makes sense to me. The current serial numbers which are still 4 digits, are too low for them to be a high output company. Mandolin production has to be under 1000 a year or the serial numbers would be larger. Looking at current current serial numbers and taking into account the short number of years they have been in production, that equates to around 600 per year. The current 'for sale' production serial numbers are around the range of 3500. They have been producing mandolins for around 6 years. 6 years times 600 equals 3600. Correct? Yes? No?

Still confused in Colorado

jillian

DryBones

Feb-16-2009, 2:03pm

From my experience with the Eastman mandolin line we went and visited an Eastman Bass dealer when we wanted to finally purchase our son his own bass and get rid of the rental from school. He had other brands in the store but our son liked the Eastman over all others in our price range and that's what we took home. :cool:

MikeEdgerton

Feb-16-2009, 2:23pm

...The current serial numbers which are still 4 digits, are too low for them to be a high output company. Mandolin production has to be under 1000 a year or the serial numbers would be larger. Correct? Yes? No?

Still confused in Colorado

jillian

Jillian, how many mandolins a year do you think Gibson or Collings make in a year?

The plain answer is that Eastman makes instruments other than mandolins and they make them in a factory setting, call it a large shop or whatever. Just becuase there isn't a machine stamping out the tops and backs doesn't mean it's not factory built. They are built in a small assembly line fashion, someone is building components that are passed to the next person who does the next step, and it's passed to the next person that does the next step. That's the way these things work. If they made 200 or 2000 in a year they still built them in an assembly line fashion. I'm sure that the folks at Eastman are cross trained. If they need extra help pushing out fiddles they can probably grab bodies off the mandolin line. I'd be real surprised if they were paying people to stand around when the other lines needed help. I'm sure they maintain serial numbers for each instrument line. Counting mandolin production does nothing to show over-all production numbers.

Take a look at this (http://www.eastmanmandolins.com/workshop/tour1.html) page that shows the Eastman "Workshop" tour, apprently factory is a bad word. Note that there is a different person doing a different job in almost every picture. Note the image of a large number of bodies unfinished waiting the large number of unfinished necks in the rack below them. Finally, note the large number of semi-finished mandolins on the rack, somewhere near 80 as far as I can see, assuming the same number is on the other side. Do you understand that they are splitting this work up among workers and passing it through?

Eddie Sheehy

Feb-16-2009, 2:32pm

I have several Eastman Mandolins. They are unbelievable value for money. I have, in ascending order, an 804 A style, a 905D 2 pt, 615 Mandola, a 915 F5 style, and a DG1 ... and I'm lusting after a 914 F4 style and Mandocello... Reality (my wife) dictates that I should be thinning the herd not expanding it.... If I could only keep one, well two, they would be the DG1 and the 615 Mandola and the 915 F5 and the .... OK, maybe I won't get the 914 and the 'cello.

pager

Feb-16-2009, 2:42pm

Mike:
I have no argument at all with you on production. I fully realize they are built in the fashion you describe. Eastman is a small 'factory' with no CNC equipment. I have been on that tour via the web. I have also been on the Martin factory tour. Same deal. One person does X job, next person does Y job, ect. I totally understand that.

My question is simply out of curiosty with the production numbers. The first couple years or so, they did serial number each instrument number line. The 500 series were seperate from the 600 series, ect. That got to be a bit confusing so that has changed and now the serial numbers run through all of the mandolin line. Now that these numbers include all mandolin production, the overall mandolin serial numbers still seem low to me. No real matter though. Gibson, Collings, Weber, ect. do not turn out vast numbers either.
They probably would not turn over production numbers anyway. Martin seems to be the only company I know of that makes those kind of production numbers available. You gotta love Martin.

Geez. Look at the time I have wasted in simply wondering how many mandos they turn out a year. I am now going to smash my PC and cell phone so I can get back on the bus and start playing.

Thanks;
Less confused in Colorado
jillian

MikeEdgerton

Feb-16-2009, 2:49pm

I'm not so sure they don't use CNC equipment and if they did so what? Eastman is growing their mandolin business and I'd think they probably match most of the American builders in quantity and beyond that they build a good instrument. To characterize them as a small shop really isn't totally true. In the mandolin world they aren't that small. If they choose forsake CNC machining it's probably a financial decision more than anything else. Eastman has become a power player in the mid level market. They have an entire line that pretty much owns that segment of the business right now and rightly so. I just have a problem with their small shop image. A small shop doesn't have 80 partially built instruments sitting around waiting completion.

pager

Feb-16-2009, 3:37pm

Good points Mike.
I was wrong calling them a 'small' operation. 80 in waiting would not qualify as a small 'shop'.
I did have the opportunity to recently play one of their arch top jazz guitars. Outstanding! While I will keep my Byrdland, I may pick up one of those Eastman arch tops

jilly

pager

Feb-16-2009, 8:34pm

Yes, I was really impressed with the Eastman arch top. It was 1500.00. Played as well as my Gibson Byrdland that I payed 5k for. It sounded great too. After paying 5k for a great sounding and playing jazz guitar, it was a bit annoying to find that I could have had all of that and saved myself $3,500.00. But then more money always equates to a better instrument, right? Just keep telling yourself that, Jillian. You always get what you pay for. Why does that sound like a comforting lie? lol
jillian

MikeEdgerton

Feb-16-2009, 8:40pm

When you find one that speaks to you then you've done well. If that one happens to be less than half the price of the one you were looking at you've found a real bargain.

gregjones

Feb-16-2009, 8:49pm

If they choose forsake CNC machining it's probably a financial decision more than anything else.

I'm sure that's very true.

I wonder if that is because Chinese worker pay is low enough to hire enough people for less than buying expensive machinery to do the job, whereas American workers demand so much pay that a high dollar machine is cheaper in the long run.

What standard of living are we supporting with the purchase of an Eastman? Do they live in bamboo huts with grass roofs and dirt floors while the Gibson employees live in a three bedroom ranch model home?

It doesn't much matter to me. I live in a truck 25 days a month.:whistling:

pager

Feb-16-2009, 8:58pm

Oh Mike ... that one made me cry, and it got away from me! I usually hold to the creed that you get what you pay for, but that Eastman archtop was such a bargain. I did not buy it since I had the Byrd, but I can't get it out of my head and now it is gone. Ha! I should have snapped it up. I think I will make up a T-shirt with your quote "When you find one that speaks to you then you've done well".
How many of us have had that one time when we found a great instrument and for some reason or the other, we walked away. Take Mikes advice folks ... when you find the instrument that speaks to you, don't hesitate. Chances are if it speaks to you and you don't buy it that day, it is going to speak to someone else and take a ride home with them.

JEStanek

Feb-16-2009, 9:18pm

Gregjones,

Please look through this thread post #22 (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40068&highlight=eastman+visit) for Sean's report from the Eastman shop tour he went on with John Bernunzio. John had, but no longer has, photos posted. The factory was clean open and airy. Sean goes on to descibe working conditions and relative wages.

This thread from 2006 (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23823&highlight=eastman+visit) went to some detail as well. A Café member who was in China for other business had stopped by the factory and visited and took photos too.

For Parity, Bob McRea of Jade mandolins runs a similar, albeit smaller, operation in China too.

I believe, but don't have the hard data or inside info from Sean Chase of Eastman, that they do things by hand and not with high end carving machines because the company started out making violins (good ones too) by hand. That's their model. I also suspect that Eastman's violins and cellos make more money for the company than their mandolins, kinda like Gibson with their Electric guitars. ;)

Jamie

pager

Feb-16-2009, 9:32pm

gregjones

Feb-16-2009, 10:39pm

Since Beijing is China's second largest city, I don't visulize a meca filled with bambo huts. Beijing is renowned for its opulent palaces, temples, and huge stone walls and gates. It's art treasures and universities have long made the city a centre of culture and art in China.

Jillian

All well, fine and good. Great American cities have the same and most of the people do not reside in the palaces.

Temples and art collections don't have a lot to do with the general population's living conditions.

Here's part of Beijing:

http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:dm6pfiC3deCLRM:http://lonelystreets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/beijing.jpg

Full size here: http://lonelystreets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/beijing.jpg

The bamboo part was wrong. Great construction projects leave a lot of great scrap.

Jamie: I'll read the threads you highlighted. Thanks.

For the record I recently bought a Blonde Eastman 804D from Dennis. It arrived in great shape, very well set up and plays wonderful. It's a far better mandolin than I am a player. It suits me very well. It's all the mandolin I will ever need---probably not want, but for sure ever need.

Eddie Sheehy

Feb-16-2009, 10:47pm

When I visied Beijing I went to the place in your phot o above. It is a HIGH-RENT district called the Hutongs - a facsimile of old peasant dwellings that are now de-rigeur part of the tourist itinerary (the ones that are open to tourists anyway). Personally I wish I had skipped that part... The workers live in high-rise apartments on the outskirts. Unfortunately, I didn't find out about Eastman until after I got back, and I will not be returning to China again, for various reasons.

allenhopkins

Feb-17-2009, 12:19am

Eastman, I believe, started with instruments of the violin family, went on to mandolins and arch-top guitars (since Orville G's innovation, some similar carving techniques involved). They're now doing flat-tops and electric guitars, and I've heard a banjo line is somewhere in the works. They also have a line of brass and woodwind instruments (link). (http://www.eastmanmusiccompany.com) Their website advertises "Chinese, German and Eastern European instruments" (presumably in their violin family line), so not everything marked "Eastman" is made in China.

Don't know how China's and our current economic slowdown may modify expansion plans, but it's clear that this is currently a successful and growing company, or family of companies.

As a resident of Rochester NY, home of the late George Eastman, founder of Eastman Kodak and the Eastman School of Music, I've often speculated on the thinking behind the "Eastman" name -- other than the obvious association of instruments made in the Far East.

SChase@EastmanStrings

Feb-17-2009, 1:52pm

I thought I could step in with some facts and put an end to any further speculation.
Here are the truths to some topics of discussion in this thread:

-1510 Eastman mandolins were distributed to dealers in 2008
-we hand-carve and assemble the instruments for one reason, and one reason only; that's the
way they were made in the Golden Age of building. Qian, the owner of Eastman is very dedicated
to producing instruments in the most traditional and organic way possible.
-the builders are not cross trained, they are trained under one discipline. All the highly specialized
tasks such as carving and hand chiseling of the dovetail neck joints are done by workers who
have an extensive woodworking background and they still have to undergo a one year
apprenticeship before they can have their own workstation.

I know there are more questions so feel free to ask...I will do my best to answer them.

MikeEdgerton

Feb-17-2009, 1:54pm

Trained under one discipline? The person cutting the dovetails just cuts dovetails?

gregjones

Feb-17-2009, 3:20pm

pager

Feb-17-2009, 10:04pm

Sean:
1510. Fantastic. Thank you. So I was right in thinking they are not turning out thousands of these a year. And to think I was starting to doubt myself. Geez! The Eastman rep in 2005, told me 600. That was probably correct at that time since they were just starting out. 1510 in 2008 comes out to 126 a month. Certainly a lot more than a private builder, but for a company to only turn out 1510 in a year ... that is still a fairly small number in my book for a 'factory'.

I knew there were no CNC machines at Eastman. There are some boys in my band that owe this girl an apology and a dinner over my 'bet' on this topic. They were sure since they were built in China that they were 'stamping out' a couple thousand mandolins a month over there. My banjo player asked me, "How could they survive by only making a hundred or so a month?" Humph. Banjo players. Oh boys ... better start looking for your credit cards. I am a very expensive date. :mandosmiley:

SChase@EastmanStrings

Feb-19-2009, 12:20pm

Trained under one discipline? The person cutting the dovetails just cuts dovetails?

Correct, he cuts dovetails for all the fretted instruments. It sounds like it wouldnt be a full time job but once you see the actual process, you realize the time / effort put into each one.
I tried to post a video on youtube but it was too long, I am going to try photobucket today.

SChase@EastmanStrings

Feb-19-2009, 12:23pm

Sean,

How many of the 1510 mandolins were shipped to the USA vs. the rest of the world?

Mine is an '08, #3788. Is that number anything significant to 2008 (ending in an eight) or just a number since some point in time?

Thanks.

1510 is the US figure. Very few mandolins are distributed outside the US.

For your serial number...take the last digit, subtract the first digit, and then multiply it by the sum of the middle two digits. :popcorn:

SChase@EastmanStrings

Feb-19-2009, 12:26pm

MikeEdgerton

Feb-19-2009, 12:51pm

OK, so back to basics. Actually 1500 or so a year plus the other s doesn't make you small and the concept is the same, it's an assembly line. What do you do when the guy that cuts the dovetails is sick? Does production stop?

pager

Feb-19-2009, 2:10pm

I am doomed to not agree on the numbers subject. That is OK. Since we have established that Eastman is a factory, any factory that only produces 1500 of an item per year is SMALL in my book. I apparently will not convince others of this but that is my opinion. Just as it is their opinion that 1500 is somehow a large number. What Martin produces a year as a guitar factory is a large number in my opinion. What Eastman produces a year for a factory is a small number in my opinion. Our opinion over this trifle depends on ones definition of the word 'small' in a factory setting - not a workshop setting. The only probability in this viewpoint is that neither of us will ever convince the other. But don't we have better things to do that quibble over numbers? I think I will grab my Eastman, leave my Collings at home and hit the road for the Midwinter Bluegrass festival in Denver. Maybe I will see you there!

Jillian

MikeEdgerton

Feb-19-2009, 2:49pm

They produced a little over 1500 mandolins last year, not 1500 instruments. If you compare mandolin output with Gibson's branded mandolin output (those instruments produced at Nashville, not imported) and Collings mandolin output, and Breedlove's mandolin output (ignoring other instruments), they are probably the same size or very close one way or the other. The bigger question for Eastman is how many of everything else do they produce. If I'm not mistaken they started out in the violin business. With that said, if they continue their growth pattern I'd say they will be producing more mandolins than the "big" builders listed above in a very short time. I have no idea where they would sit in relation to Weber but I doubt Weber dwarfs them either. Big is relative.

allenhopkins

Feb-19-2009, 3:57pm

I guess I'm getting confused over what's a "factory," what's a "workshop," etc. To me a factory is US Steel, General Motors -- or Samick. A "workshop" is Gepetto hand-carving puppets, or one of our Cafe members building one mandolin at a time. Eastman's something in between, and so, probably, is Gibson OAI. I would concede that the assembly line turning out Les Pauls is probably a factory.

Anyway, what is the difference? It's the quality of the end product that matters. Eastman mandolins aren't made by robots on endless assembly lines. If they have specialists in carving necks, carving tops, applying finish etc., that doesn't imply a Chaplinesque Modern Times environment. They make good mandolins in their price ranges, and I share the opinion that, if they continue with the same quality, they'll be the major player in the mid-price market for quite a while to come.

man dough nollij

Feb-19-2009, 4:03pm

MikeEdgerton

Feb-19-2009, 4:08pm

My only point is that Eastman isn't a small shop, they are a large shop in relation to the rest of the mandolin world and they don't turn these little things out one at a time they build their instruments the same way the other quality shops do, in an assembly line manner. As much as the company desires the image of a guy with chisels and mallets turning these out the old fashioned way, they are the same as the other production builders and that's nothing to be ashamed of. I wouldn't care if their entire operation was done with a CNC machine, somebody that knows what they are doing has to set that up and run it. It's not a bad word, it's a tool and anyone that thinks Lloyd Loar wouldn't have embraced that technology is simply mistaken. Eastman builds decent instruments that can hold their own with mandolins built by other major builders. I stood at Gibson OAI one day and watched a guy take a block of wood from a blank to a roughed out neck with a dremel. I didn't hang around to see how long it took to get it finished. I see no difference in that and the way Eastman is doing it. I stood at Martin and watched them create 20 necks (or so) at a time on a CNC machine. I honestly don't see any difference there either. They both were roughing out necks that were later hand sanded to a finish. I have a problem when we somehow elevate the level of work being done simply because we think they are in a small shop and not a factory setting. Great workmanship is great workmanship no matter how it's done.

sgarrity

Feb-19-2009, 6:10pm

Anybody producing 1500+ mandolins ain't a small shop. If they make that many mandos, how many guitars do you think they're shipping? It's gotta be 3-4x the number of mandolins. Then there are the violin family instruments. It's definitely a factory.

Eddie Sheehy

Feb-19-2009, 7:32pm

At least they're not made in a dimly-lit cave by Elves (Mike Soares on the Soares Y' tenor guitars)....

MikeEdgerton

Feb-19-2009, 7:39pm

At least they're not made in a dimly-lit cave by Elves (Mike Soares on the Soares Y' tenor guitars)....

Now that's funny, and appropriate as well.

pager

Feb-20-2009, 10:09pm

I apologize for starting up the number question and the 'big - small' discussion. You are right in saying that it really does not matter. It is just an academic point. The important thing is to be happy with the instrument you have and to make other people happy by playing it.

Factorys are in the business of moving instruments.
Musicians are in the business of moving people to smiles and tears with those instruments.
I loose sight of that sometimes.

jillian