Michael Kelly Legacy Deluxe Electric?

[Jimishelter]

Howdy, I'm new here, but I have already found this place very helpful. I find myself needing a new mandolin that I can gig with. I play a fair amount of acoustic music, but I also play guitar in a blues band. I often bring a mandolin to those gigs, and a pick up is a must for that.

Anyone love (or hate) the Michael Kelly Legacy Deluxe Electric ? Just reading about it (and the company hype), it sounds pretty good. I haven't located a store with one within driving distance yet, but I might consider buying on-line, if the return policy seems right.

Anybody have one? Or have a favorite on-line place to shop. And, of course, horror stories about the product are welcome too.

[Jimishelter]

Howdy, I'm new here, but I have already found this place very helpful. I find myself needing a new mandolin that I can gig with. I play a fair amount of acoustic music, but I also play guitar in a blues band. I often bring a mandolin to those gigs, and a pick up is a must for that.

Anyone love (or hate) the Michael Kelly Legacy Deluxe Electric ? Just reading about it (and the company hype), it sounds pretty good. I haven't located a store with one within driving distance yet, but I might consider buying on-line, if the return policy seems right.

Anybody have one? Or have a favorite on-line place to shop. And, of course, horror stories about the product are welcome too.



Well, i left everyone speechless. :-) Well, there is a used one an hour from my house so I guess I'll check it out tomorrow.

[Tim2723]

I play one, and the MK FSE as well. MK makes three AE models. I believe Tim Bowen playes the third called the Legacy Dragonfly. The MKs are very well made for their price range, although there are reports of quality variablility. I have not seen that myself. I chose them because they are the only moderately priced F style mandolins with on-board piezo bridge electronics. I have not had any trouble with mine while giging three or four times a week for over two years. I recall that Tim Bowen had a minor problem with the electronics that he corrected. Perhaps he'll chime in or you can search for his posts.

MKs don't get a whole lot of press around here. Perhaps it was the early QC problems, perhaps it's because the big names don't play them. They tend to be conspicuous by their absence whenever we talk about good, medium priced mandolins. I like them. I've owned two of them, I use them hard, and they perform. I would buy another without hesitation.

You have to realize that putting electronics inside a mandolin effects its acoustic tone even more than filling a guitar with wires and boxes does. There's not much space in a mandolin, so an AE model with on-board electronics won't have the full acoustic properties of an unamplified one. But acoustic playing is not the objective with the AE models.

I recommend the MK line to those looking for the features they offer. I don't recommend buying them used on the basis that they did have some serious quality issues early on. It is more likely you'll find a bad one in the used market, since like the bad penny, a bad mandolin keeps showing up. Nobody throws away an instrument, they sell it to someone else and bad reputations are fostered.

I neither love nor hate the MKs. The MK line are not lifetime investments. They are tools to be used for their purpose. They are not the best choice for Bluegrass players, as they lack the classic BG tone. For other styles though, I like them.

As a blues player, you might also be interested in the Ovation MM-66. I played one of those for ten years before it met its mortal end. Excellent electronics, solid construction, almost bulletproof (almost).

[Jimishelter]

I.

I neither love nor hate the MKs. The MK line are not lifetime investments. They are tools to be used for their purpose. They are not the best choice for Bluegrass players, as they lack the classic BG tone. For other styles though, I like them.
.


Thanks, man, this was very helpful. It sounds like I need to find one and try it out (duh!). I was never deeply in love with the sound of my Kentucky (the one that recently walked away). I bought it over 20 years ago because it was very playable and affordable. I now find myself gigging- sometimes bluegrass, but in a non-purist way. Most of the time there is a drummer involved.

Ideally, I'd have several mandolins. :-)

Thanks again. Oh- any advice on buying one on-line? I'd need a no strings attached return policy....

[Tim2723]

Your welcome, but please wait to hear from a few more voices in the choir before you act. I'm not the end-all and know-all of anything. But I am a pragmatist. I look at mandolins only for what they really are. MKs fit my needs for what they are. I need a plugged-in mandolin that doesn't come with a bunch of wires and outboard boxes. I'm not an audiophile when it comes to live sound. I sacrifice tone for practicality. I play in places where instruments can get damaged and mustn't cost too much to replace.

If you play non-purist BG, you might like an MK. But try before you buy. As far as Internet sales, I bought both mine from Musiciansfriend.com, but I have enough mandolin experience to do my own set ups. And they do need to be set up. But so do all mandolins. I hope that wasn't the reason you ditched your Kentucky.

I've never found a no-strings-attached anything. If the string ain't attached one place, it's attached another place. But MF has a pretty good policy as they go, just be sure to understand their rules and follow them. You'll know if you have a good mandolin pretty quickly, and you'll know if you like MKs right away.

Sometimes it can take a couple of days to get the responses going on a thread, even around here, so be patient.

[Jimishelter]

And they do need to be set up. But so do all mandolins. I hope that wasn't the reason you ditched your Kentucky.


Good advice. No, my Kentucky walked away. I was teaching on Monday night, and as usual, I packed up my guitar, uke, banjo, and mandolin. But the mandolin never made it home. I drove back immediately to the shop, but...it was gone. Maybe I left it in the parking lot and someone nicked it. Or I left it on the trunk or something and it fell off. I looked for it for a long time....

[Tim2723]

That's a rotten shame. Hope you find another mandolin you like soon, MK, Kentucky, or otherwise.

Guitar, uke, banjo, and mandolin? Hey, me too!

[Rhinestone]

I got an MK FSE that I've had for about 4 or 5 years and I guess I got lucky because the neck is straight w/no issues there and the fit and finish are better than I thought it would be. I did put an Allan tailpiece on it and that helped the tone and sustain by maybe 15% - and it wasn't too bad to begin with. I felt the electric output was weak for an active on-board preamp so I looked into the bridge mounted pickup and found that all it consisted of was a piece of coax cable mounted loosely inside a cavity in the bridge and the microphonics of that unterminated coax was the basis for the amplified signal. I was sure that could be done much better so I swapped out the stock rosewood Fishman bridge/pickup for a much higher quality Schatten ebony mandolin bridge/pickup,carefully fitted it to the top and wired it into the on-board Fishman preamp. Bingo! The acoustic and electric sound,tone and output are 100% better. I play it thru a 200 watt steel guitar amp w/a 15" speaker and it's loud as it needs to be,sparkley clean,sounds full bodied and pretty "acoustic" and I've got the intonation up the neck about as good as it gets on a mandolin. I got it mail order from Folk of the Wood,got on the phone,had them go thru a few and pick me a good one w/no scabs and a straight neck. I think I paid something like $740 for the mando w/case and another $250 in upgrades and do my own setups. But I've got something now that leaves very little to be desired for its intended purpose. For around a grand,it's much,much more now than an intermediate level beater - it's a good looking,great playing,great sounding working man's ax.

[Rod Babel]

I'm writing because I have a similar question, so I'm wondering how the MK played. I have a very nice 1917 Gibson A-4 that was passed down to me. I've recently started playing out again, playing both the mandolin and the electric guitar. I'm finding the mandolin difficult to mic, so I'm looking for an acoustic electric mandolin that doesn't sound like #### when unplugged. I wonder if anyone has any suggestions?

[EdSherry]

If you want an acoustic sound from a plugged-in instrument at moderate to high volume levels, you should consider the Godin A-8. Very little acoustic sound when not plugged in, but I really like mine for amplified work.

[Tim2723]

Hi Rod and welcome!

In my personal opinion, if I were looking for a mandolin with great acoustic sound that amplified well for live gigs without having to deal with microphones, I would keep a nice acoustic like your Gibson and add a high quality transducer. All the AE models that I've tried suffer from the same problem: they have poorer acoustic characteristics than their un-wired cousins. You just can't cut big holes into a mandolin and fill the sound chamber with electronics while still having top acoustic performance. AE instruments like the MKs, Godins, Ovations, et.al. are purpose-made tools and the compromises are built in.

My opinions, based on trying these models:

The Godin has a very nice plugged in sound, but isn't much acoustically.

The Ovation has a good pickup and is still very loud unplugged, but it many folks think it sounds more like a guitar than a mandolin. It looks like a guitar, too.

The MKs make the compromise with a more traditional mandolin look and sound, but have less volume than an equivalent acoustic model when unplugged. They aren't Bluegrass mandolins either way.

On the less expensive end, the Samick instruments (Fender, Epiphones) with coil pickups bolted under the strings sound like acoustics unplugged, but their pickup system makes it sound like an electric guitar to me.

Then of course there are the solid-body electrics which are very different animals altogether.

A good acoustic instument with an outboard piezo pickup stuck to it will be whatever it is acoustically, but you're going to sacrifice some tone when you plug it in. It won't sound like it does through a microphone, but you trade for the advantages of a pickup, like less feedback.

It's a matter of understanding the compromises and accepting each type for the tool it's intended to be.

Of course, I'm talking about modestly priced mandolins in the under $1200-ish range. You can do almost anything you want if you throw enough money at it.

[Jimishelter]

Thanks for that, Tim. I'm not Rod, but I'm in a similar situation. I spend a lot of my mandolin time playing either by myself or with various friends. For this, I really do want a pleasant acoustic sound. But I'm gigging more and more with the mandolin, and often with a drummer so an electric model that sounds decent is very appealing.

So--I think I'll start putting energy into convincing my wife I need TWO new mandolins. <G>

[Tim2723]

Well Jim, there's nothing wrong with that idea at all. The fact is that all the various guitar concepts have their counterpoints in the mandolin world; straight acoustic, AE, solid body electrics, semi-hollow body electrics, all of them. A guitarist wouldn't think twice about having different axes for different needs, and mandolinists can do that too.

Since I don't do a lot of acoustic jamming with friends, I turn my attentions to my gigging needs first. I have a nice, but not valuable, oval-hole acoustic for fun with friends, and my MKs/Ovation for gigging. If you believe, as I do, that you don't need a $10,000 mandolin to have fun, you could have an MK or Godin (excellent on stage) and you could replace your Kentucky with something you like even better (like an Eastman, J. Bovier, or other nice mid-range acoustic), and still come in at a reasonable price. Quite well under two grand certainly.

Conversely, you could put all the money into one very nice instrument and add an external pickup. It's putting all that stuff inside the box that kills AE mandolins. There's just no room in there.

[CES]

Jim,

Another less expensive option for primarily plugging in is the Gold Tone Rigel copy...they don't sound spectacular unplugged but aren't bad at all (at least the ones I've heard)...

Not trying to confuse the picture at all...you probably get more acoustic tone from the MK as well as the radiused FB and traditional look, but just throwing this out there as I've seen a couple in the classifieds here lately, too, for under $500. Folk of the Wood has sound clips up on many of these instruments, which certainly isn't as good as playing them, but it can give you an idea of their sound (ie, you can really tell the difference in the real Rigel and the copy, but the copy doesn't sound that bad...)

Oh, and the good thing about not owning any really nice insruments is that I've only been disappointed in one of my cheapo purchases, and that was b/c the fretboard was separating (a separate ebay story for another time)...since you can play you'll probably like whatever you choose!

Chuck

[Jimishelter]

This is a great place, thanks you guys.

[Rod Babel]

Thanks to Jimi for posting the original question and to Tim for such helpful feedback. It makes complete sense that a mandolin is just too small an instrument to have a great acoustic sound when filled with electronics. Tim, I don't know if you have any suggestions for a quality transducer.
My other issue is that I may be looking for a second mandolin anyway, because as much as I love to jam with my Gibson A-4, because I switch between it and guitar, I get a little nervous about playing out with a valuable instrument that's not always strapped to me.

Anyone have any suggestions for a really nice F mandolin for under a thousand bucks?

Again, thanks for the tips. I just joined, but this is a great site.

Rod

[Tim2723]

Hi Rod,

I'm not big on taking a valuable instrument into the trenches either, that's why I use MKs.

As for the best pickup and the best $1000 mandolin, those are two very popular questions! You find tons of info on both topics here. Search around, especially in the Equipment forum, but don't be affraid to ask redundant questions. We LOVE talking about instruments and gear!

For outboard pickups, there are a number of popular choices. At the moment one hot item is the Baggs Radius pickup paired with their Para DI pre-amp. Here's a little background:

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/LR-Baggs-Radius-Transducer-Pickup?sku=550009

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/LR-Baggs-Para-Acoustic-DI?sku=307160

Another popular choice is the Schertler Dyn-M contact microphone. It works on a different principle:

http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/DYNM.htm

Yet another popular method is to replace the existing bridge with a piezo bridge like these:

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fishman-M100-Mandolin-Pickup?sku=303112

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shadow-Arch-Top-Mandolin-Bridge-wPiezo-Pickup-and-14-socket-?sku=300144

Both of those benefit from an outboard pre-amp as well. There are more choices, but this is a starting point. The Equipment forum is filled with additional info.

You can mount these pickups inside your mandolin as well, with a jack coming out the side. That makes them nice and neat, but puts the 'guts' in a box on the outside where they don't mess up the acoustic sound like with a true AE mandolin.

As for the best F style mandolin under a grand, there's even more to know. The forums are filled to bursting with that info. Some basic conventional wisdom as background:

1. You can get a lot more in an A style than you can in an F style for the same money. F style mandolins cost way more to build, so you can get more bang for your buck with an A style. There is no appreciable difference in sound between them, as long as they are the same quality and materials. F's are just fancier.

2. You can find remarkable values in the used market.

3. All mandolins need to be set up correctly to play. Very few mandolins work 'out-of-the-box' as good as guitars do. Keep some money aside for a good set up by a competent technician.


Here's one site that shows a great number of the popular models in your price range.

http://www.folkmusician.com/Mandolins-by-Brand/departments/36

Hope that helps get you started.

[Tim2723]

P.S. When you get out in the forums, be sure to tell the folks about the kinds of music you'll play and the places where you'll use amplification. That means a LOT when choosing a mandolin/pickup system. A bluegrass player at an outdoor festival with 20,000 watts is a lot different than a Gospel player in a church with 20 watts, and different again from a blues player in a bar with a PA.

[Tim2723]

And oh yeah, welcome to MandolinCafe you guys!!

[Rod Babel]

Thanks, Tim. You're a wealth of information. I'm sure glad I joined the site.
Take care,

Rod

[Jimishelter]

Howdy, I'll also echo a thanks to everyone who chimed in on this thread and on the one I started about the Kentucky mandolin. I never did go anywhere this weekend to try one out. As soon as he heard about me losing my mando, a good friend of mine immediately drove over to loan me his KM -200 S to tide me over. Man, that's a true friend.

Also, the store where I teach made me an offer I may not be able to refuse. They do NOT carry high end instruments, but they do occasionally order Kentucky mandolins. They told me I could order any Kentucky I want at 40% off- but I'll have to take what comes in.

Two really great acts of kindness, all for a bonehead (me) who left his mandolin behind when he was packing up. :-)

So, a new thread might be, which Kentucky would you get ? (A or F, it doesn't matter). That just might be the way for me to go.