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Bob A
Jul-26-2004, 9:39am
Now that I'm thoroughly hooked on playing Beethoven, Bach and the like on mandolin, it would seem that the next step is to find like-minded souls and make Living Room Music together. (Chambers have unwelcome associactions with wigs and Whigs, or perhaps pots).

While this sort of thing was done regularly Before Edison, it seems to have died out completely. I may be forced eventually, thru loss of hearing and brain cells, to go Electric, and whang out a stream of power chords to get the compulsion into some kind of outlet, but while I'm still functioning normally (at least by 18th century standards) it would be gratifying to go back to those thrilling days of yesteryear, and play music written by better musicians than myself, in company with the like-minded.

Is there a Classical Underground out there, at all? The closest I can find in the Wash DC area is a link to the Takoma Mandoleers, who meet weekly and practice orchestral stuff. Mildly interesting, perhaps, but lacking the essential ingredient of House Music. Then too, their website posts a picture to illustrate what mandolins look like. The photo is of a brace of Ovations. I confess to having been terminally revolted.

Your experiences in this line, while doubtless too distant to pursue, would bring encouragement, and perhaps spark ideas.

Of course, if the power grid or Western Civilisation collapses soon, I'll be in the forefront of the home entertainment wave, but scrabbling too hard to survive to get to play, unless there's sufficient surplus of labor to support live music once again. Seems like a lot to ask. And finding strings will be trickier than at present.

Jim Garber
Jul-26-2004, 9:59am
Bob:
I have been trying to get variopus folks together for quite some time. At this point I would be poleased to even play a few duets with just one person. Victor and I have been threatening to get together for about a year, I would say. Our schedules often do not permit even tho we are about maybe an hour away from each other.

I entertained the idea of having some small ensemble up near me but scheduling seem to make it insane. Maybe when the lights go out...

I, too, have my musical tastes in the turn of the last century and earlier.

of course, CMSA is a place to connect with all these folks.

BTW Bob, I would suggest connecting with the Takoma group. Even if you were not interested in joining there may be a few folks who would be interested in getting together and playing informally. You never know...

Jim

rosenthal
Jul-26-2004, 11:28am
Interesting idea of getting together for some informal house music.

I've been thinking the same thing about getting together for music for a while. In early July, My kids, wife and I were at a Suzuki camp for a week in northern New Hampshire, and we put a small informal Mandolin cafe group together out of about four violinists who had mandolins, but were rank beginners. We did a very nice rendition of the slow movement of the Vivaldi double concerto in G major, and a very pretty duet of Ashoken farewell.

At night the about 20 people, children through adults got together to play various chamber arrangements of music at all different levels of difficulty. I played along with the violinists and had a great time.

I was thinking if a group of people all learned the same music, and got together in NYC, Hartford or Boston for a day of music and carousing, we might have a very fine time.

Regards,

Peter Rosenthal

billkilpatrick
Jul-26-2004, 4:14pm
i hope you find this interesting. in our group there's a flute/recorder player who's just finished her studies at the conservatory in siena. when we played in a little village not far from arezzo over the weekend, she forgot her sheet music and all hell broke loose. what we ended up doing was sending a text message to the wife of one our number so that she could fax the music to us as we waited in the bar in the piazza. what came out of the ancient fax machine was barely readable and the flutist - gasp!...horror!... - had to wing it without a sheet of printed music in front of her. her difficulty in accepting this was shared by everyone except me.

for the most part, what we play are tunes that were invented by happy-clappy pilgrims, music illiterates, over 500 years ago as they marched along from one pilgramage site to another; not exactly the most challenging repetoire in the world.

so, you get the picture?...sun going down over a hill top, tuscan town; medieval piazza; early music enthusiants all dressed up in costume waiting for the fax to arrive...

my point is - coming from a folk music back ground, it's relatively easy for me to pick up the bare bones of any song and run with it as best i can: i have a go, you have a go and then it's someone elses turn. sheet music might have been referred to, briefly, when the latest issue of "sing out!" got delivered but for the most part, the music i played when i first got interested, stayed pretty much informal.

you won't believe how difficult it is to get these kids (they're all younger than i) to simply play without reference to some sort of authority (sheet music...our director...the constraints of h.i.p.) i've often wondered if it's the unacceptable face of provincialism i'm experiencing here that makes them so afraid of doing something to bring disapproval from - experts... elsewhere!! when i say the word "improvise" no one seems very comfortable with the concept.

you may find it difficult to get like minded people to sit around your living room playing beethoven but i'd be pleased to get someone to just sit and strum.

- bill

CharlieKnuth
Jul-27-2004, 10:01am
Bob,

If you are thinking about having a group play together on a somewhat regular basis, I may be interested in doing that. I play mostly old timey and celtic, but have tried my hand at some of the Bach pieces and have enjoyed them. Contact me offline. I would at least be interested in talking to you about this.

--charlie knuth

Mandobar
Jul-27-2004, 1:06pm
i live about 45 minutes from manhattan and have not found a soul to play duets or an ensemble. #but when i go to maine and even in worcester, mass. #there is much more going on in these areas.

i am thinking about going to cmsa just to see if there are any more folks out there playing mandolin/mandola.

Jim Garber
Jul-27-2004, 1:26pm
Mandobar:
I live about 1 hour north of Manhattan and know quite a few folks who play in Manhattan and others who live in the outlying regions. I met quite a few in the years I have been attending the Carlo Aonzo workshops. I highly recommend these workshops for the privilege of learning from Carlo and for meeting other players many of whom live locally.

Depending on where you live in the area, there are a number of organizations like the Bloomfield Mandolin Orchestra (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cmsa/groups/bloomfield.html), the Long Island Mandolin and Guitar Orchestra (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cmsa/groups/longisland.html) and the New York Mandolin Orchestra (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cmsa/groups/newyork.html).

Jim

sailaway
Aug-09-2004, 2:09am
Bob A, Although DC/Baltimore/ NYC are indeed centers for classical music, if you are willing to travel to Pittsburgh PA there is a Pgh. Mandolin Orchestra which meets for practice every other Sunday afternoon and plays wonderful classical and traditional music including several concerts a year. Contact Steve Miklas's Acoustic Music , a store in Pittsburgh PA, which is a community info center for acoustic music happenings around the town. Sorry I don't have the phone No. but he has a Website.

wundo
Aug-10-2004, 5:43am
The Takoma Mandoleers have a great website. If you download Noteworthy software you could play along with the music provided and would not need "live" people to play with. Don't be turned off by the Ovation mandolins. You'll find all sorts of mandolins played when you join an orchestra. It's the music that counts.

stevenmando
Aug-14-2004, 11:20am
Hi I think a lot of us mandolin player are trapped in another century the music is some of the greatest even though I like a lot of different types of music I alway come back the the music that I love and that is the music or Rainier, calace,Munier,silvesti,these are just some of the greats that made mandolin music.I know it is hard to find other players in any area that people live, that would like to get togeather and jam , I moved from Los Angeles to Portland Oregon and I am still looking for people that want to get togeather and play just for the fun or it. what a great saturday or Sunday to get togeather and play some of the greats and talk about music that takes you back to a time that is out of this time, if that is old fathion than I am , but what a way to learn music than to hear it comming from your own instrument and seeing that look on peoples faces going by and stopping by just to hear some great music, to me that would be a great weekend

Eugene
Aug-14-2004, 11:40am
How about the Portland Mandophonic Orchestra (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cmsa/groups/portland.html)?

stevenmando
Aug-14-2004, 2:40pm
Hi Eugene thanks, I tried to get a hold of them once and what I gathered they exist in another form, I will try again and see what I come up with thanks again.

stevenmando
Aug-14-2004, 3:58pm
Hi Eugene just tried to cantact the person in charge of the mandophonic orchestra and the number has been diconected so I guess thats that,but thanks Ill keep looking I know there are mandolinist out there who has the same interest as I do.

Eugene
Aug-14-2004, 7:13pm
Hmmm, I pulled Mandolin Orchestras of North America (Levine 2000) off my shelf thinking there might be a url or some such listed only to find...absolutely no mandolin activity whatsoever cataloged in Oregon. Sorry. Still, some of the ex-members must still be around. Is there any way you could find current contact info for Ken Culver? I know some of the guys who are active in the BC mandolin scene. It might be a stretch, but they might know somebody down your way.

stevenmando
Aug-15-2004, 10:37am
Hi Eugene I found mondophonic finaly but they only do parties but there is the Vancouver mandolin orchestra which is right across the river in Washington so I think Ill will check them out and see whats a playing over there. I tried to phone Ken Culver and his phone is disconnected.
Its funny I moved up this way because in Los Angeles its mostly guitar and Rock and Roll and also I wanted to get out of that rat race,after 54 years I had a nuff of that city it just got to big, oh well thanks for the info keep on a playing its good for the soul. steven

Geordie
Jul-29-2011, 4:07pm
While this sort of thing was done regularly Before Edison, it seems to have died out completely.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/SonBrimmer/crumb-music.jpg

JeffD
Jul-29-2011, 5:33pm
Died out completely, I think not. It takes some effort to make connections and friends and like minded folks. But with the web this is easier than it used to be. I second Jim's comment


BTW Bob, I would suggest connecting with the Takoma group. Even if you were not interested in joining there may be a few folks who would be interested in getting together and playing informally. You never know...

Sometimes I find that to get what I want I first have to get to a place where what I want is more likely than where I am.

And when it works its sublime. I have a flute, french horn, and fiddle that come over once or twice a year to do Playford tunes, and its a blast. And I have some fiddles and other mandolins that come over more frequently to work on more traditional stuff, not to mention a monthly jam I host. All this has taken a while to bring together, mind you, but it proves it can be done.

As far as yearning for an earlier century, no sir. I like modern medicine, and dentistry, and pick materials way to much. But I know what you mean. There is nothing better than sitting around the kitchen table playing music, whatever century you do it in.

Jim MacDaniel
Jul-29-2011, 6:00pm
And if Woody Allen has anything to teach us, it is to embrace the golden age in which you live.

Randi Gormley
Jul-29-2011, 7:34pm
I can see the beauty of a group of like-minded friends (when I couldn't find anybody to play baroque recorder with me, I just taught a bunch of friends and relatives), but if worst comes to worst, you can always pay a bit. I decided to take lessons to get better at classical mandolin, and now, when things work out, my teacher and I will spend an hour or so playing baroque or medieval or classical duets, just to play them.

Jim Garber
Jul-29-2011, 10:48pm
Hah... we all get trapped in the past. Those posting today, please note that this thread started almost exactly 7 years ago.

JeffD
Jul-30-2011, 12:38am
Hah... we all get trapped in the past. Those posting today, please note that this thread started almost exactly 7 years ago.

Yes but the conversation continues! :)

SincereCorgi
Jul-30-2011, 1:38am
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/SonBrimmer/crumb-music.jpg

Wow, Dhal, that one's great! Any way to get that on a shirt or something? (Then people would know what good taste I have.)

mrmando
Jul-30-2011, 2:55am
One thing that's changed in 7 years is a new mandolin orchestra (http://oregonmandolinorchestra.org/) in Portland!

Geordie
Jul-30-2011, 5:07pm
Wow, Dhal, that one's great! Any way to get that on a shirt or something? (Then people would know what good taste I have.)It's a Robert Crumb drawing; Crumb is a big, big fan of older music. I'm not sure if you can get it on a shirt... it would be nice, wouldn't it?

SincereCorgi
Jul-30-2011, 5:11pm
It's a Robert Crumb drawing; Crumb is a big, big fan of older music. I'm not sure if you can get it on a shirt... it would be nice, wouldn't it?

Yeah, it looks unmistakably Crumb- do you think he did it for a liner notes or something? It's sort of album-shaped.

billkilpatrick
Jul-30-2011, 5:16pm
is bob a. still with us?

mrmando
Jul-30-2011, 5:29pm
Yes, he just posted something in one of the threads about Julius Bellson's mandolin.

Geordie
Jul-31-2011, 10:33am
No, it's the title panel of a longer comic about the vapidity of modern music and the superiority of the old stuff. He's done lots of interesting music-related comix about old blues musicians or collecting old records.

Jim Garber
Jul-31-2011, 9:21pm
He has some tee shirts here (http://www.crumbproducts.com/apparel.html). The story that follows from that drawing can be found here (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Crumb-Comics-Vol-15/dp/product-description/1560974141).

SincereCorgi
Aug-01-2011, 2:55am
Thanks Jim, I think it's also collected here (just ordered it):

http://www.crumbproducts.com/files/blues.jpg

And this site does awesome shirts with his portraits of blues musicians:

http://www.kotapparel.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_133

journeybear
Aug-01-2011, 9:17am
I've been reading this thread with interest but holding off on posting until now, because I didn't want to hijack it or send it further off track. I mean, I am inspired by the implications of the thread title, an intriguing notion, though this has nothing to do with the forum in which it is located. Sorry. :redface: But clearly the conversation has already veered, without my help, so without further ado ... :whistling:

I feel sometimes as if I have been living in the wrong decade, with a choice of two, but now that both of those are in the last century, my case qualifies. Where I really feel I belong is the 1960s. I did live through them, and was aware and involved in some of the cultural revolution, and am grateful for this experience and really wouldn't have had it anyway. But I just wish I had been a few years older, and had acquired a mandolin and learned how to play it earlier, so that somehow I could have brought the instrument into the psychedelic era the way Ian Anderson did with flute and Jerry Goodman and David LaFlamme did with violin. Somehow, even meeting Paul Kantner in 1970 wasn't good enough, as I wasn't good enough yet. I had written some songs that were very much of the times, but I couldn't play them right; I wasn't ready yet. The era indelibly influenced my playing style, and I am so glad that I am in a band now in which I get to play that way, but I wish I could have been doing this forty years ago and actually been a part of that part of music history.

Nearly ten years later I formed a trio that started out firmly rooted in music from the psychedelic era but transformed into a string band that harkened back to the Tin Pan Alley era. Among our role models were Dan Hicks And His Hot Licks, Leon Redbone, and R. Crumb And The Cheap Suit Serenaders. I am not sure how much I really wish I had actually been around in the 1920s or 1930s, but I must say i really admire the craftsmanship of the songwriters from that period. And playing that kind of music was a great learning experience and a terrific amount of fun as well, and helped the development of my own songwriting abilities immeasurably.

Trying to bring this back around to the OP, clumsily but effectively ... Post #10 from stevenmando got me thinking. The power goes out here at least once a month. Usually it's just for ten minutes or so, but sometimes longer. When it does, I look on it as a welcome break from my fascination with electricity and all the wonderful entertainment opportunities it provides. I get out my mandolin and sit on the porch and play for a while. It reminds me of a bygone era, before radio, when if someone wanted to hear music, one had to either go to a concert or play it oneself, when many homes had a piano in the household and it was customary for people to gather around of an evening and sing together, or play instruments. Also, I used to spend a lot of time on the porch learning and practicing Italian tunes for a gig, and many times passersby would comment very nicely about that. And one of my neighbors plays accordion and ukulele, and occasionally we play together a bit.

Playing like that creates a very nice ambience. It recalls a sort of musical community that existed before personal listening devices sprang up and isolated listeners from their surroundings and other people. People appreciate when they hear music that spontaneously appears in unexpected places; it really brightens their day. This enterprise reminds me of the old song, "Brighten the Corner Where You Are." Nice piece of advice, that. :mandosmiley:

journeybear
Aug-01-2011, 9:17am
BTW, that R. Crumb drawing got a bit of a mention last year over at mudcat, though no one there could provide its origin either:

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=68893
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 03:26 PM

You might like this drawing by cartoonist R. Crumb:

"Where has it gone, all the beautiful music of our grandparents?"

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/SonBrimmer/crumb-music.jpg

Thanks for the links, Jim. Didn't see that particular image available as a T-shirt, though. Pretty slim selection, actually. What I would like to see is the page of "Mr. Natural Does The Dishes," available enlarged and printed on sheet metal specifically designed for installation by the sink. My brother gave that to me sometime in the last century, and I believe it is in deep storage. He starts with a sinkfull, rolls up his sleeves and goes to work, finishing by saying, "Another job well done." Delightful!

Funny - Amazon has "The Complete Crumb" new for $39.95, or choose from five used copies starting from $75. :))

Geordie
Aug-03-2011, 2:37pm
I get out my mandolin and sit on the porch and play for a while. It reminds me of a bygone era, before radio, when if someone wanted to hear music, one had to either go to a concert or play it oneself, when many homes had a piano in the household and it was customary for people to gather around of an evening and sing together, or play instruments. Also, I used to spend a lot of time on the porch learning and practicing Italian tunes for a gig, and many times passersby would comment very nicely about that. And one of my neighbors plays accordion and ukulele, and occasionally we play together a bit.

Playing like that creates a very nice ambience. It recalls a sort of musical community that existed before personal listening devices sprang up and isolated listeners from their surroundings and other people. People appreciate when they hear music that spontaneously appears in unexpected places; it really brightens their day. This enterprise reminds me of the old song, "Brighten the Corner Where You Are." Nice piece of advice, that. :mandosmiley:Remember, "music self played is happiness self made!"
http://www.fleamarketmusic.com/images/market/67138-DSC01783.JPG

journeybear
Aug-03-2011, 4:13pm
Nice! I think the clarinet player looks a little like a (slightly) younger Mr. Natural. :)

Charlieshafer
Aug-03-2011, 4:37pm
I would bet. I have his World Musette cd from his band "Les Primitifs du Futur" and it's a lot of fun. He also did artwork and posters for Marley's Ghost, a great band out of the Frisco area.

journeybear
Aug-03-2011, 7:55pm
I may have missed something. I was talking about the figures on the ukulele there, which harken back to a time before Crumb. As to Les Primitifs du Futur, it looks like that is really Dominique Cravic's band and Crumb is an adjunct member, or maybe he just played on most of the tracks and did the artwork for that album. Which is not to say it doesn't look like a lot of fun, I just wouldn't call it his band.

R. Crumb has definitely been keeping his hand in since the Cheap Suit Serenaders went their ways (when will there be a reunion tour for those guys?). There is also his playing mandolin with Eden and John's East River String Band, which also looks like a lot of fun.