2006 Charles J. Horner F5

[Chuck Naill]

The builder is allowing me the honor of using this mandolin to play and record. I would love to be able to buy this mandolin down the road. One thing that I noticed was how light it was compared to others I had played. It weighs not more than most A models.

The top is Red spruce from a log John Arnold and Ted Davis sourced in 1990 in West Virginia. The maple is from Putman County Tennessee near Cookville.

The points on the scroll are the sharpest I have seen. The builder is also builds violins so maybe he was thinking about "bee stings" when he carved them.;)

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_1293.jpg
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http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_1291.jpg

chuck

[Stephen Cagle]

Chuck that mandolin is just beautiful! I'm sure it sounds as good as it looks as well.. I believe someone had one for sale recently either here or maybe ebay, can't remember but it was a much older one. Again beautiful mandolin! enjoy..

Stephen

[BradKlein]

Does Mr. Horner use a truss rod these days? That can save some weight.

I believe that he feels strongly that the adjustable truss rod isn't necessary in mandolins.

[Chuck Naill]

Brad and Stephen,

He told me it had a metal bar, but that it is not adjustable.

Yes, it does sound great. I replaced the old strings with DA J75's. Normally, I had used the J74's but decided an F model might like something a little
heavier.

I fooled around with the bridge placement and got the intonation perfect although this meant the bridge is a bit angled.

Since this is my first F model I am not sure how to compare. This one has a lot of sustain even with the old strings. There are several tonal options depending on where I pick.

Regards,

chuck

[Stephen Cagle]

Very interesting about not having a truss rod. My 1980 Vanden does not have a truss rod and the neck is extremely V'ed. Like a piece of angle Iron! I guess with a V'ed neck like that you don't have to worry to much about it bowing. Does it have a V neck?

Stephen

[Chuck Naill]

I guess with a V'ed neck like that you don't have to worry to much about it bowing. Does it have a V neck?

I am not sure how well you can see the shape here. This is a three piece neck with an ebony strip. The V is modified and not sharp, bulky, or uncomfortable for my hands.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_1297.jpg

chuck

[Steevarino]

I have had a number of these mandolins come through my shop. There is a mandolin instructor in the Shelbyville, TN area that suggests students check out Mr. Horner's mandolins if they are interested in upgrading mandolins. Seems that the instructor strongly suggests having a pickguard, and Mr. Horner will have none of that! So, he gets the mandolin business, and I get the pickguard business.

I have always been impressed with these instruments. They are built very well, and are extremely consistent in the quality of fit, finish, and most of all, tone.

Come to think of it, I wonder why they aren't mentioned more around here....?

Steve Smith
www.CumberlandAcoustic.com
www.RedLineResophonics.com

[Christopher Standridge]

Chuck,
nice lookin F5 there. I am sure it sounds great! I first met Charles back in '99 under the advice of Ted Davis. I was wanting to devellop my building skills and drove up to Rockwood to check his shop out. He is a very resourceful builder and in his words only makes mandolins so that he can pay for his fiddle making habit. He is a great old time fiddler and maker. I was equally impressed with his house and shop that he built many many years ago.
Steve, I wonder why he is not mentioned more either. He certainly builds nice instruments. Oh and that d@br@ that you built me is doing just fine! I must say that I am hooked!

[Chuck Naill]

I have had a number of these mandolins come through my shop. There is a mandolin instructor in the Shelbyville, TN area that suggests students check out Mr. Horner's mandolins if they are interested in upgrading mandolins. Seems that the instructor strongly suggests having a pickguard, and Mr. Horner will have none of that! So, he gets the mandolin business, and I get the pickguard business.

I have always been impressed with these instruments. They are built very well, and are extremely consistent in the quality of fit, finish, and most of all, tone.

Come to think of it, I wonder why they aren't mentioned more around here....?




He is a great old time fiddler and maker. I was equally impressed with his house and shop that he built many many years ago.
Steve, I wonder why he is not mentioned more either.

I think that the reason nobody knows about Charles J. Horner is that the age of the internet has passed over him. The only way to find out about anyone is through the internet these days. I decided to help him be discovered again by violinists and fiddlers, and players have responded very favorably from California to Canada. I just help in packaging and shipping.

I first heard of Mr Horner on The Heartland Series, a local TV production of all things East Tennessee. However, is was not until a couple of years ago that I made over to his shop to get my first violin. We immediately struck up a friendship.

What has impressed me is his knowledge and understanding of not only of the great master violin builders, but his thorough love and appreciation for the music and especially the founding fathers of Blue Grass. He considers Bill Monroe to be the greatest mandolin player of all time. His musical tastes are vintage 1940-50's.

That's funny about the pickguard since I know he could make them in his sleep. I will ask him and see why he doesn't want to bother with them. He might say that BM didn't have one so no one else needs one.;) Personally I don't like them on my guitars or mandolins.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_0445-1.jpg
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http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_0257-1.jpg

chuck

[AlanN]

Builder at work and at play. Nice photos...and nice mandolin!

[Darryl Wolfe]

Hello, nice to see some pics of Gene. I left my Loar with Gene (Charles) for several weeks during the early/mid '80s. He re-invented all of his templates during this period. I take zero credit for his work, however, his execution racked upward about ten notches right after that period. He has been a good friend since 1973 and deserve far more credit than he gets

[Dusty]

Steve, I ditto your comment on tone. The mandolin player for our band, way back in the Josh Williams high school days, played a Horner. I was always impressed how the mandolin sounded over a mic and especially in the studio.
I have no financial interest, but Gruhn's had a Horner, in stock, when Iwas in there recently.

[Chuck Naill]

Hello, nice to see some pics of Gene. I left my Loar with Gene (Charles) for several weeks during the early/mid '80s. He re-invented all of his templates during this period. I take zero credit for his work, however, his execution racked upward about ten notches right after that period. He has been a good friend since 1973 and deserve far more credit than he gets
__________________

Darrell,

I am glad you replied as Mr Horner refers to when you allowed him access to your Loar with much appreciation.


Steve, I ditto your comment on tone. The mandolin player for our band, way back in the Josh Williams high school days, played a Horner. I was always impressed how the mandolin sounded over a mic and especially in the studio.
I have no financial interest, but Gruhn's had a Horner, in stock, when Iwas in there recently.

The one at Gruhn's is on consignment I think. There is one at Elderly originally built for his wood cutter using Cherry. Both are priced a few hundred more than his current prices. He is going to be building two or three A5's this Spring. He was able to take some measurements of Tut Taylors Loar era A5.

Here are some recent F5's just being finished up. I think one of them was sold, but not for sure. I notice that the one on the left has a one piece neck.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_0371-1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_0369.jpg

chuck

[D C Blood]

Hey Chuck ...The Horner at Elderly you mentioned was mine...The only reason it is there is because I really wanted the Silver Angel they had. The Horner is an '83 model...great sound, fantastic "pop" and chop...beautiful torch and wire old F4 style headstock, and as you mentioned, cherry wood back, sides, and neck. I wish I could have kept it and just bought the new one outright.

[Chuck Naill]

Hey Chuck ...The Horner at Elderly you mentioned was mine...The only reason it is there is because I really wanted the Silver Angel they had. The Horner is an '83 model...great sound, fantastic "pop" and chop...beautiful torch and wire old F4 style headstock, and as you mentioned, cherry wood back, sides, and neck. I wish I could have kept it and just bought the new one outright.
__________________

Hey DCB,

Thank you for the reply. Mr Horner told me he had originally made that F5 for his woodcutter. He also said that he only made 5 with that inlay design.

How does cherry compare to maple in your opinion?

Best Regards,

chuck naill/knoxville

[D C Blood]

How does cherry compare to maple in your opinion?

IMHO, I think the cherry makes it a brighter sound...maybe was not the typical Loar woody sound, but great percussive chop...

[Chuck Naill]

In October of 1995 a friend of mine was able to obtain an approximately 400 plus year old Red spruce from a virgin section of timber in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Below is a photograph of me standing beside a similar tree on the assent trail or Mt LaConte.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMGP0118.jpg

chuck

[Chuck Naill]

The tree had been blown down by Hurracaine Opal blocking a section of Hwy 441 near Newfound Gap. Blaylock Construction was hired by the park service to clear the debris and took the log to their site outside the park then making it legal to dispose of any way the construction company decided.

Below are photos of my friends partner preparing the materials for transport to their respective shops.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/Smokies1997H-1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/Smokies1995C.jpg
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chuck

[Chuck Naill]

Below is a cross section my friend used to count the rings of this ancient tree.

This is what he wrote:

"This is a section from the small end of the smaller log, where I counted 407 rings. That tree was already 14 feet tall in the year 1588. The dates I have highlighted are 1588 (at the center), 1620, 1688 (100 years old), 1776, 1788 (200 years old), 1865, and 1888 (300 years old)."

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/Smokies_SpruceHistory.jpg

chuck naill

[Chuck Naill]

Below Charles J. Horner is preparing a piece of the 1995 Smoky Mountain Red spruce to be used to construct an F5 mandolin.

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http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_1349.jpg

chuck naill

[Chuck Naill]

Below Charles is gluing and clamping the top material.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_1351.jpg
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chuck naill

[Chuck Naill]

Below is the glued top sections. This is the tightest grained Red spruce I have ever viewed. There are sections that are 40-60 grains per inch.



http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_1360.jpg

Also below Charles traces out the section for the scroll using his template.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_1364.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_1369.jpg

chuck

[D C Blood]

Hey Chuck. Why don't you try starting up a Myspace site for Mr Horner, as I have done for Ken Ratcliff's Silver Angels...It's easy to get going...all free..and has the potential to reach a large number of potential buyers. Take a look at my site (see sig block). I think you could really do him some good. When I get a little more time, I'll tell you the story behind that '83 Horner that's up at Elderly now.

[Bernie Daniel]

Great set of photos thanks for posting.

That sure is a lovely piece of wood! I love to see the final top that comes from the billets he glued togather with the white colored center with the reddish outside parts.

I wish we had not lost +90% of our old growth in this country -- the sad part is how so much that amazing wood must have been used for such trivial and mundane purposes. But who knew then?

I meant to add too -- what a beautiful fiddle -- you get so used to seeing ebony tailpieces that maple is striking!

[Chuck Naill]

Hey Chuck. Why don't you try starting up a Myspace site for Mr Horner, as I have done for Ken Ratcliff's Silver Angels...It's easy to get going...all free..and has the potential to reach a large number of potential buyers. Take a look at my site (see sig block). I think you could really do him some good. When I get a little more time, I'll tell you the story behind that '83 Horner that's up at Elderly now.

That's a great idea. I will try to get it going. If I need help I will let you know. Yes, I want to know how you got the Horner. His wood source had it made from a cherry log near Cookville, Tennessee. This fellow needed some money so Mr Horner bought it back then sold it again. Are you that person?

Below is a recording I made using the one pictured and a D-18.

http://www.banjohangout.ws/users/audio/tennessee--13054-20172012009.mp3


I meant to add too -- what a beautiful fiddle -- you get so used to seeing ebony tailpieces that maple is striking!

Hang on!!;) Here are my two Charles J. Horner violins.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_1027.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/twelvefret/IMG_0589-1.jpg

and a recording of the top violin I made.

http://www.banjohangout.ws/users/audio/rose-of-sh-13054-2975712009.mp3

chuck:mandosmiley:

[jasona]

Nice playing and sounding violin!

[Chuck Naill]

Thank you Jasona and I like that quote from Paul.

chuck