Vintage Mandolinetto

[Rod_Neep]

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-01.jpg

An interesting little instrument. I just picked this up on eBay.
There's a bit of a story behind this, as back in 1971 I used to have an identical instrument, although at the time I never did learn to play the mandolin. That one cost me the princely sum of £4.00 from a pawnshop/junk store type of place in Nottingham, England, where I lived at the time. In those days I used to frequent the local folk clubs, and one day one of the guys, a great mandolin player visited my house and played it.... and instantly fell in love with it because of its loudness, responsiveness and deep luscious tone. I sold it to him for £5.00.

Skip forwards to 2006, and I saw one for sale at an auction house in England that went for £600.00, which reminded me of that old one I used to have. I was pretty surprised at the price that it fetched. Another sold on eBay a couple of years ago for around £200.00.

So, when I saw this one, I thought I would have a go at it. It arrived here this morning.

These instruments were built sometime around 1905, and they bear the label of the Neapolitan College of Music, patent 2272. (Interestingly I dont think that there ever was a "Neapolitan College of Music").

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-10.jpg

Each of them has a picture of a lady "printed" on the back under the varnish. (I have seen one with a different lady pictured).

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-02.jpg

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-03.jpg
Note the narrow ebony string tensioner just behind the bridge. One of the fastening screws has pulled out of the spruce. It is there to create a better break angle of the strings over the bridge. I have seen one of these instruments without one of those, so it may be a later addition.

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-04.jpg
The back and sides are maple

[Rod_Neep]

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-05.jpg
I am pretty sure that this isn't the original bridge. Others I have seen have a pointed end "Neapolitan" style bridge. The pickguard, which sits on the surface, is made of tortoise shell and ivory. (I have also seen one of these instruments with the materials reversed, i.e. all ivory with a tortoise shell patten inlaid).

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-06.jpg

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-07.jpg

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-08.jpg
The tuners all still work nicely!

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-09.jpg

[Rod_Neep]

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-11.jpg
The string tensioner removed. It still plays nicely without it, but it may need to be replaced as I shall renew the bridge, which could do with being a bit lower to get the action better.

Rod

[brunello97]

Thanks, Rod, for sharing your story and pictures. And congratulations on replacing your mandolinetto. I'm quite fond of them as a style and have a US made one on my benchtop awaiting some serious repairs. I have seen a number go by on the ebay from the 'Neapolitan College of Music' featuring an image of either the string player you have or a woman playing the tambourine. Perhaps there are others. The all appear identical, but for some color variations. You said it was printed on the wood. I've often wondered if was some type of decal under the finish. Does it appear printed directly on the wood?

The wood on yours appears to be in good condition. Had it been kept in a case? Given the wide price ranges that you cite, I hope it is not impolite to ask what your winning bid was on ebay? I'd love to get a report back when you have it up and playing. Since they show up now and again, I've thought of bidding on one, but between the lack of first hand playing knowledge and steep UK-USA shipping charges, I have always stayed clear. Your experience would be invaluable. (As well as anything you might find out about the mysterious NCM.....)

Mick

[Rod_Neep]

That one came in at £125.00 (Thats about US$178).

It came with what is probably its original case. The cardboard type.
By the way, shipping of something this size & weight would be around $78 to the US. (I costed a ukulele today that I am currently offering).

This is the other back that I have seen.
http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/mandolinetto-04.jpg
I dont think that it is a decal. There is no "edge" to it. It is under the final finish, but I suspect on top of the first coat.
That was on one with a "reversed" detail pickguard
http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/mandolinetto-05.jpg

I have it tuned up to pitch now (and without the little bar to increase the break angle of the strings below the bridge). It is LOUD.... and much more mellow than a F style mandolin. In due course I shall be trying to find a better, more original looking bridge and then I'll set it up with a lower action too. This one is perfectly playable as it is, but it could do with lowering just a little.

Overall, it is a pretty good instrument!

Cheers
Rod

[violmando]

Congrats on getting it! I thought it looked like a beauty; in better conditions than some, but I was afraid of bidding going too high and then shipping costs. You did quite well, IMHO. Enjoy!

[lornajoy]

Thank you for sharing this lovely tale.

What sort of strings have you experimented with on this instrument, and what did you think of the results?

--Lorna

[Rod_Neep]

I haven't yet tried different strings. I am just enjoying playing it!:)

I intend to get a new bridge, but all I have done so far is remove that string tensioner (that creates a steeper break angle over the bridge), and I have threaded a little strip of velvet through the strings south of the bridge to remove unwanted harmonics.

Its very playable... in fact delightfully so! Very mellow, and as I mentioned earlier, pretty loud too! When I get a new bridge I'll certainly try some decent light gauge strings, and I will lower the action just a smidgin too.

Rod

[Rick Turner]

Re. the "reversed" pickguard... They probably cut those out on a scroll saw cutting two or four layers of material at a time with alternating layers of the white/ivoroid and the tortoise. Then they'd just inlay the pattern from one layer into the background of another layer. This is fairly common practice among the marquetry makers. Cut once, get two items.

[Rod_Neep]

I think that you are right about that.

I just looked very closely, and I can see the line of the filled saw kerf.

Rod

[Martin Jonas]

Nice catch. These mandolinettos are fairly common in the UK, sometimes also labelled "Viennese College of Music", although I'm fairly sure they never got anywhere near either Vienna or Naples. The headstock shape, pickguard and string downholder mark them out as belonging to the general family of vaguely-de-Meglio-influenced instruments. Prices on Ebay tend to be around 100 Pounds, but yours looks in much better shape than most, so I think your price is pretty good.

Martin

[nk70]

hi
searching the web i've found a mandolin-guitar ...it's almost the same with the one above..
price:£225 is it a little expensive or do u think it's ok?
what is the tuning of this mandolin-guitar?

[Rod_Neep]

It is the same as mine. Despite how its described, it really is still a mandolin, and is tuned as such.

I have seen them go for much more than the £225 that you see.

Rod

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

How does the narrow waist affect the sound? All other things being equal, the waist of a jumbo acoustic guitar vs the waist of a dreadnaught guitar makes a big difference. With a mando, a mandolinetto is making an hourglass shape out of a pear shape, so maybe there is a big difference in sound.

[Rod_Neep]

Well, yes indeed. There IS a big difference in sound to an A mandolin.

But it is very pleasant indeed!

Rod

[billkilpatrick]

always wanted one of these ... yours looks like a beaut' - congratulations.

any chance of a sound sample?

about a year ago i saw a lovely mandolinetto on ebay u.k. with a shamrock shaped sound hole - made by "k. lee" (geddit?) but was slow off the mark and missed it. from time to time you also see new ones coming from those mothers of all mother-of-pearl inlay artists in the orient.

[mandolinbill1949]

Very nice

[allenhopkins]

How does the narrow waist affect the sound?

Mandolin sound is a function of so many variables, that it's hard to focus on one, such as the "guitar" waist configuration on a mandolinetto. However, I have to say that my Howe-Orme has a clear, bright, thin sound -- the adjective "tinkly" comes to mind -- that is audible through the sound of other instruments.

Whether this is attributable to the body shape, the smaller body size, the pressed arched top, the shorter scale, or the extra-light strings I use, I can't say with any degree of certainty. I will say, however, that it is a unique voice, unlike other mandolins I own.

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Allen,

That's quite a line-up you have there. I'm just learning what you probably have known for a long time: There is more variation in the 8-string family than in guitars. And a lot more history.

Darryl Hattenhauer

[allenhopkins]

That's quite a line-up you have there. I'm just learning what you probably have known for a long time: There is more variation in the 8-string family than in guitars.

Daryl -- don't ask how many guitars I have! And there's quite a bit of variance among a 1971 Guild F-212XL 12-string, a 1940 Martin 00-28G/00-42 conversion, a 1930's National Havana, and an '80's Mexican Weissenborn copy. All of which I pick at from time to time , plus nine or ten more.

It is true, however, that guitars vary quite a bit less in size than the discrepancy between a Howe-Orme mandolinetto and a Gibson K-1 mandocello. They don't make guitars tuned an octave and a fourth apart, though my Honduran guitarron is nearly an octave below my six-strings...

And, come to think of it, I do have a Bruko octave guitar, tuned like a standard guitar capoed at the 12th fret! So, similar variance.

[just_cast]

Sorry im not trying to spam or anything but i have the exact same mandolinetto,i bought for cheap but it had a lot of work to be done, so i took it to the this shop here in socal, called folk music shop, i think its owned by Ben Harper's family, but anyways i spent alot of money getting it restored and the luthier who did it did a not so good job, so i had my cousin help restore again and heres the aftermath:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/jcat/DSC07815.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/jcat/DSC07822.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/jcat/DSC07821.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/jcat/DSC07836.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/jcat/DSC07841.jpg

[just_cast]

<reference to personal items for sale deleted by Moderator. Please see guidelines>

heres more pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/jcat/DSC07839.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/jcat/DSC07829.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/jcat/DSC07819.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/jcat/DSC07825.jpg

[just_cast]

<Post edited by Moderator; please consult Posting Guidelines (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/faq.php) regarding personal sales on the Message Board. You may post sales in the Cafe Classifieds (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi)>

[Claim To Fame Man]

http://www.rod-neep.com/rod/instruments/mandolinetto/ncm-11.jpg
The string tensioner removed. It still plays nicely without it, but it may need to be replaced as I shall renew the bridge, which could do with being a bit lower to get the action better.

Rod

Hi Rod, thanks for posting the pictures of the mandolinetta. I recently acquired one of these instruments and it is very similar to the ones in your pictures except the scratch plate is reversed in colouring having an aged white background and brown pattern.The lady playing the string instrument on the back is identical. I bought this on a whim as it was a real bargain and at the time did not realise it's true value. An expert who plays mandolin said I had bought a real gem as it tunes well and has a really powerful,loud and rich tone and seems to have improved with age. The pegs are originals and apart from a few minor surface marks in keeping with it's age I think I own a real gem of an instrument. But sadly The Mandolin and I just don't get on. This is my 4th Mandolin and I sold the other three because I've always struggled with playing it finding the fret gaps far too tight. I play keyboard and various Guitars and my Mandolin friend has the same problem with guitars being far too big. I love the sound of the mandolin and occasionally use it in my recordings but feel slightly sad that it could be put to better use by a true mandolin player. My dilemma now is whether I should put it into an auction, sell it privately or keep it for it's historical interest but I do think instruments should be played. I also can't help thinking that once sold I would quickly find myself in a Music shop buying another Mandolin even though I know it would be only played twice a year for recording. The case incidentally is well past it's best and cannot effectively carry the mandolin safely although I suspect it is the original c1905 case.I would love to hear peoples' views on this and whether an auction is the way forward. Personally I would prefer an auction house rather than e bay as I worry about the packaging etc.
Any advice would be appreciatedThanks
Claim To Fame Man

[Jim Garber]

Of course, you realize that this thread is over 5 years old. Also, tho these are nice instruments and possibly may be worth more in the UK, you are not talking about a highly desirable or valuable mandolin, tho it may be nicely playable and sound wonderful. You can see the prices that Rod paid from a few years back. I have a feeling that many of the prominent auction houses might not even sell it for you of even if they did their seller's fees are usually pretty high. You would do much better posting it for sale here in the Cafe classifieds or eBay or selling it locally if you didn't want to ship it.

In any case, good luck.

[Tavy]

Like Jim says, these aren't hugely valuable in monetary terms, but they do make nice instruments.

Don't worry about the packaging too much - stuff the case with bubble wrap (or other reclaimed packaging - recycled Jiffy bags work well) so you can barely get the lid closed, then mummify the outside in more bubble wrap and place in a cardboard box. After that it's pretty much ready to survive Armageddon ;)