Old Wave #240

[KevinM]

Anyone see this yet? "...F5 Style Old Wave mandolin built by Bill Bussmann on 12/15/2000. Serial #240. It is in excellent condition." Current price $1,281.56. Little under FMV, I'd say.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....IT&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3702435052&category=10179&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1)

[fatt-dad]

Kevin M,

You want it? I thought of staying in the bid, but am not sure.

fatt-dad

[pickinNgrinnin]

I've not seen/played an Old Wave before. How is the fit and finish on the OW's? Any owners out there to comment?

The thing that stands out w/Old Wave mandos is "the sound". These have perhaps the most accurate old vintage Gibson sound out there. Exceptional & world class.....$02

[PhilGE]

You can check out some pix and sounds of my Old Wave #315 w/oval hole (http://homepage.mac.com/philg2/OldWaveA.html) if you'd like. I'm no pro-player, but the mp3's do a reasonable job replicating the sound. The instrument is wonderful to play, has great tone, plenty of volume. This is not a Jaguar, it's a GTO. Looks pretty good, handles well, has all the power most of us will ever need, won't break the bank.

http://www.mytexasisland.com/images/67-Blue-GTO.jpghttp://homepage.mac.com/philg2/.Pictures/OldWaveA/FrontLg.jpg

-Phil

[Coy Wylie]

I have a case of MAS and am looking to upgrade to a solid American made mando in a reasonable price range. I like the GTO metaphor. I sure wish I could play this one before I bid on it. I'm debating the question of a Gibson F9, Webber Bitteroot or a good used F5 from a reputable private builder like this Old Wave or the Cole that is also on ebay. Any suggestions?

BTW Phil, I enjoyed your pick'n on your OW, the sound was great!

[Hoyt]

I've had three Old Waves. #Wonderful sound and beautiful wood, etc. #Still have an Octave. #Wish I had the other 2 back.

There is a new Old Wave listed for sale on Gruhn's Web site. #I think they have a 48 hour or something trial period. #You will not be disappointed in an OW. #Bill Bussmann can build them pretty quick too.

Wow, the GTO is cool. #Looks like the one that blew past my Plymouth 426 in 1967 on the way to the Lake. #I was on the way to work. #He was on the way to having fun in the sun with the three blondes waving out the window. #

Nice car. #Nice mando.

[fatt-dad]

So, How many of you are lurking on the E-bay OW?

f-d

[pickinNgrinnin]

No trial period as all sales are final. Sounds a bit risky to me. I've bought Mandolins and Guitars sight unseen before but have always had the option of returning if it did not meet my expectations.

[pickinNgrinnin]

BTW - nice looking GTO!

[PhilGE]

Sorry, not my GTO! Wish it were, though (the mandolin is mine, thankfully). Way back when I was an adolescent, a friend's Dad owned a '65 metallic blue convertible GTO w/wide mags. We once fishtailed out of a movie theater parking lot after buying tickets to see the Ramones "Rock and Roll High School". Three gorgeous young women had just crossed the sidewalk in front of us. I looked at him and simply said, "Floor it". He did and we almost did a 180...

Thanks for the compliment, Willard!

-Phil

[Coy Wylie]

I've emailed the seller and he answered a few questions for me. I have his phone number and may call him tomorrow. He says he's now playing a Brentrup and wants to liquidate. I'm lurking and thinking this one over carefully. It might be a great deal but then again, I would hate to get burned. Any suggestions?

[fatt-dad]

Yeh, let me have it. . . . . .

f-d

[Coy Wylie]

You've got it so far... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[fatt-dad]

Willard,

I too share your concerns. The last two mandolins I purchased on ebay, I had to return. One had a failed top (collapsed under the treble side of the bridge) and the other was so poorly made in the Alvarez shop that it must have had an extra 2 pounds of wood left on the top. If it were not for the description saying, "astonishing sound, no fret wear, mint condition", I doubt I would have had a leg to stand on. Oh well, for the OW I will put in my best offer, and if you have more guts than me (or another lurker) then, "by by" (or is it buy buy). I too sent him an email and am interested in hearing the sellers comments.

Having purchased over 20 mandolins on ebay, using the 'cafe is one of the more interesting ways to share information. Interested in my Ibanez 513? It's up on the ebay right now.

fatt-dad

[Lee]

Hmmm, $1428 with two days to go...

[fatt-dad]

And the meaning is. . . . . . . . . .

[Mandoe]

Any one know what the top wood is on this mandolin?

[pickinNgrinnin]

Bill's Mandolins generally come with an Englemann Spruce top. His 2003 prices list the F style Mandos at $3600.00

I seriously doubt that Fatt-Dad's bid of $1,457 is going to stand. Don't get your hopes up #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

If it looks like it will, my checkbook may be ready. I could turn around and sell it - allowing a trial period and maybe make some dough :-)

[fatt-dad]

So, your my competition? I know my ceiling, especially that it is "all sales final". Either way, if it's one of us, I expect a followup posting.

f-d

[pickinNgrinnin]

If 30% off from the price new is a (somewhat)standard benchmark for buying used, there is still room to go on this one.

F.D. - I doubt you have to worry about getting outbid by ole8string http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[GVD]

pickinNgrinnin Posted on Feb. 09 2004, 18:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill's Mandolins generally come with an Englemann Spruce top. His 2003 prices list the F style Mandos at $3600.00

I seriously doubt that Fatt-Dad's bid of $1,457 is going to stand. Don't get your hopes up #

If it looks like it will, my checkbook may be ready. I could turn around and sell it - allowing a trial period and maybe make some dough :-)

I thought about doing the same thing until I remembered how sweet Bill's mandolins sound and how easy they are to play. I'd never be able to part with it and then I'd have 4 mandolins. As long as I only have 3 I can somehow convince myself that I don't have a terminal case of MAS. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

GVD

[KevinM]

One item to know is that it is a lacquer not Bill's standard varnish finish, reputedly no dings or dents. 10" or 12" radius (Bill's current standard is 12, I think). The seller seems to have a good record on eBay, so that may soften the "no return" problem in that I doubt he would want his reputation sullied by a negative. I guess this axe should go in the mid two's or so? But not sure I'd bother to go that high given the intangible spousal consent risks. "Gee, honey, look what I bought on eBay..."
Good luck all.

[Lee]

Oh my; four mandolins is terminal MAS? Shucks, I missed my own funeral!

[pickinNgrinnin]

[QUOTE]not sure I'd bother to go that high given the intangible spousal consent risks. #

HA HA HA! That's a great one KevinM. Best laugh I've had today.

GVD- I only own one Mandolin so that is a good justification for having M.A.S. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KevinM]

pickin you must be married...and hey I had you peggged as owning not only a Flatiron but also a Weber Yellowstone...other info is this Old Wave has the Engelmann spruce top, tone bars...that price is kicking up slowly but surely...probably a nice mandolin. Like I said I'm watching it to make sure it does not go for a song (ha!), but I'm not sure my wife or my Festival F would tolerate another mando in the house, let alone an Old Wave. Now a nice used Derrington signed Fern,.....

[pickinNgrinnin]

KevinM- yes, happily married for 22 years. That's why I found your comments so funny as they were right on.

It's true, I'm down to one Mando - my 01 tone bar Yellowstone. I had to sell my beloved Flatiron to maintain the household equilibrium. It hurt real bad. Now here I go again, coveting another. I'm with you on the Charlie signed Fern. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[fatt-dad]

Well, my best number is shot by Hufstuff.

f-d

[KevinM]

I was gonna say at $1850 I guess I am bowing out, although who knows...:^). If it's as advertised, it's worth more. Go for it Fatt-dad, as long as it stays under say $2100.

[Coy Wylie]

Aw Heck, Hufstuff beat my top bid at $1900. I had it until the last 5 minutes. MAS will not decrease, now I have to go back to shopping again? Any suggestions in that price range?

[fatt-dad]

How does it go? I need another mandolin like a fish needs a bicycle? I couldn't watch, so I just sat and played "done gone".

f-d

[Coy Wylie]

fatt-dad, I feel your pain!

[EasyEd]

fatt-dad darn I was hopin you'd spend all your money on the Old Wave an maybe I could get a good deal on the Weber that I'm contemplating bidding on.

Oh Well! -Ed-

[KevinM]

$1933.53. A good deal. I watched the last six minutes playing my Flatiron and decided to stay on the sidelines. Sorely tempted though - if it was varnish I would have been in the running for sure. I hope the buyer gives us a report.

[pickinNgrinnin]

Yes, it did turn out to be a good deal for someone. I gave it some thought but decided I'm happy with my tone bar Yellowstone and the thought of having a 2nd is not realistic for me http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Maybe I'll hold out for that Gibson Fern!

Bill's web site indicates that his Mandolins have a hand rubbed varnish finish.

[doanepoole]

I'm also under the impression that all Old Waves have a varnish finish.

[Coy Wylie]

I'm kicking myself today for not bumping the bid one more time. I thought I had it. Unlike you guys I really NEEDED it!

[KevinM]

I contacted Bussman directly about #240 and was advisd it was lacquer (yeah, I know why would you do that if Bill includes a varnish finish!). The seller told me that too. For that reason alone I thought it was an Old Wave aberration, still valuable but not as easily traded as a regular varnish finish would be. I'm going to go check these BRW thangies.

[pickinNgrinnin]

KevinM- you were more serious about this than I thought! I had expected it to be a varnish finish but I did not check into it as I withdrew from the race. I wonder if the buyer knows it does not have the varnish finish. I don't remember it being stated in the auction info.

Willard- perhaps one more bump could have done it. I feel your pain.

KevinM- straying from the Flatiron fold? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[fatt-dad]

Strategy No. II - Inventory reduction sale, gather up some funds and start all over again. The only problem that I am having is that my not for sale list is getting too long.

[KevinM]

If it were varnish, and a relative bargain, Old Wave #240 would have been an "add-on", not a replacement for the Flatiron. Once I heard it was lacquer I was pretty much done with it unless it was way underpriced. I've pretty much got it in my head that only a Fern will do, and the prices on those used are not out of reach - one just went for about $3800 in the classifieds a while back - but the Fern acquistion would require the Flatiron to go, or risk significant disturbance of marital tranquility. I'm thinking about trekking to Nashville to see the sights and hear the music, and to incidentally go to Gibson OAI and try stuff out. It seems to me overall that the mando-market seems a bit soft (the Old Wave sold at a discount from its "real" value in my book - your 30% off number seems about right to me), and I wouldn't let the Flatiron go for under $2K, but not sure that's realistic right now. So I'll just keep playing it in. MAS makes you want more, when what you've got in your hands is probably good enough. I would also like to own an x-braced Yellowstone or other "sweeter", non-Gibson sounding mandolin.

[pickinNgrinnin]

KevinM- I'm with you on the Fern idea. That could be the "next one." I like my Yellowstone a lot - it has the tone, playability, fit/finish and value I was looking for. AeroJoe recently stated that the Yellowstone is a $4,500 - $5,000 Mandolin in disguise. I tend to agree with that observation. If I want to step up a level, it will likely cost me another $1,000 or so to do it. Course, I'd be under orders to sell the Yellowstone - or risk significant marital disturbance http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

"It seems to me overall that the mando-market seems a bit soft."

I've noticed that a number of Montana Flatiron F's have not been selling on Ebay - if that is any way to tell.

A Charlie signed Fern would be sooooo sweet.

Hope to hear a report from the person that bought the Old Wave![QUOTE]

[bjh]

Hi everyone. #A friend told me about this discussion group and I wish I had found it first. I'm pleased with the Old Wave, though I'm not much of a player - yet. #I knew it was lacquer, but didn't realize varnish had such a cachet to it. Would love to hear more info from you folks about Old Waves and such.

PS A friend of mine has an Old Wave and that's what started me on the quest. #I can't afford a Collings or Red Diamond, or most of the Gibsons.

[KevinM]

Hey bjh, on the lacquer vs. varnish thing, we're (at least I'm) only nitpicking. You got a great mandolin at a stellar price. The original owner might have gone wth lacquer for reasons related to durability of finish, and been satisfied that it did not adversely afect the sound as compared to an Old Wave varnish finish. You did very well. If you have a digital camera post some pics of #240, the object of our combined affections.

[KevinM]

Supposedly this Old Wave has been strung up at Gryphon, is sounding mighty fine, and we should be getting a report shortly.

[c3hammer]

I go to a jam where three or four people who play Old Waves. Bill's son Ezra plays around these parts at most of the jams and in a band with a friend of mine.

All I can say is that all of these instruements are very good and have lots of punch. Ezra is one of the better mandolin players anywhere and can hold his own with just about any of them. Saw him do a duet with Matt Flinner at a seminar last weekend. Ezra's Old Wave faired very nicely to Matt's Gilchrist that is worth nearly $20k.

You couldn't have gone wrong if it is not damaged.

Cheers,
Pete

[John S]

Here are some MP3 sound clips of me playing my Old Wave F5. I'm not the best picker around, and it sounds to me like the engineer used too much compression on the mando (yuck... I'm having that fixed), but perhaps this will be of use.

Bluegrass Stomp (http://halfdaybluegrass.com/realaudio/bgs_clip.mp3)
Used To Be (http://halfdaybluegrass.com/realaudio/utb_clip.mp3)

[KevinM]

John and your Old Wave sound great! Nice "Stomp". I've talked to the buyer a couple of times. She's real excited about her Old Wave, but noted that at the Frank Wakefield workshop weekend she recently attended it held its own but didn't quite sound as good as the Nugget that was there or Frank's Loar. Go figure.

[John S]

John and your Old Wave sound great! Nice "Stomp". I've talked to the buyer a couple of times. She's real excited about her Old Wave, but noted that at the Frank Wakefield workshop weekend she recently attended it held its own but didn't quite sound as good as the Nugget that was there or Frank's Loar. Go figure.
Thanks Kevin http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I'm presently having a Price tailpiece installed on my Old Wave, so a friend let me borrow his Nugget in the meantime. It really is an incredible mando. I'm almost sorry he let me borrow it, because now that I've played the cream of the crop I'm afraid I won't be satisfied with anything less. That's not to take anything away from Bill Bussmann's work, he makes great mandos at a great price. When I get the Old Wave back I'm going to go back to the studio and A/B it with the Nugget just to hear exactly what the differences are. If I'm feeling creative I might post WAVs of the recordings on our band web page for others to compare. We'll see.

[pickinNgrinnin]

[QUOTE]I'm not the best picker around

Geeze John S! Who are you comparing yourself to???

You sound pretty darn good to me!

[bjh]

Hi everyone. It's amazing to me that my mandolin is still a topic for discussion, but Kevin has been suggesting that I say something about the mandolin.

It was set up at Gryphon after I got it, and the mandolin and I are starting to bond! There are lots of clear treble sounds and there is a strong midrange too. I am getting a strong chop on my chords, but I would have to have a better player give it a try to see what it can really do. I think it's similar to learning a stick shift in a car. I can barely change the gears, but an experienced driver can get the car up and roaring.

I didn't have the Old Wave when I went to the Frank Wakefield weekend but the Nugget and Frank's Gibson were enough to get me excited about playing and wanting an F model. I have a friend with an Old Wave A model that I liked so when I saw the Old Wave on ebay, I thought I'd try to get it. I was hoping to get it for the same price as an A model, and I guess I got carried away in the auction process and paid a little bit more than I thought I would.

Anyway, if anyone is going to the Grass Valley camp or festival in June, look for me and you can play it!

Brenda

[John S]

[QUOTE= ]I'm not the best picker around

Geeze John S! Who are you comparing yourself to???

You sound pretty darn good to me!
Thanks http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #Those are a couple tracks from the CD my band is putting together, and they turned out pretty good. Some other tracks I'm not so proud of, but oh well, you can't win them all I guess.