View Full Version : 1987 Gibson Fern
Has anyone played one around this year? I'm not a big fan of the new gibsons and old ones are soooo expensive but haven't played any of the 70s or 80s and they seem to be the cheapest.. do they sound the cheapest too?
Bernie Daniel
Dec-24-2008, 10:15pm
Has anyone played one around this year? I'm not a big fan of the new gibsons and old ones are soooo expensive but haven't played any of the 70s or 80s and they seem to be the cheapest.. do they sound the cheapest too?
I would not say they sounded "cheap" in fact the tone on many older "dark era" mandolins is often good. But the general feeling is that the tops were carved too thick and thus they were limited in projection. I have one that sounds great but Randy Wood regraduated it to "pre-war" specs.
GTison
Dec-24-2008, 10:57pm
I think you have to separate time periods. I think the '70s models up untill the F5L as one period. Then the F5L period from about "78 till later '80s. Then the Montana period F5Ls on up till 1998. Then the modern F5L or "Fern" model (which ever it's called at the time of the label.)
Each of these periods can be broken further. Some of the late 80s and early 90s F5Ls were signed by Carlson. These are desirable and preferred by many folks.
The 70's models pre F5L are the least desirable as a set. Some or good. Others, well there is a good reason for the lower price. I've seen several like "44" describes above but if you add the cost of someone doing a regraduation, I think it would be closer to another one that may please you better. But there are reasons to do that no doubt. But I don't think resale value is much better.
I'm curious,What makes you NOT a fan of the new Gibsons?
I just don't like the feel, If I am going to spend 5k on a mandolin then I expect it to come playable. Every gibson I have played with the basic factory setup isn't good feeling. The frets are chinsy and the tuners stink. I am sorry if I am offending anybody who likes these. I'm just not a fan. But that is my opinion. Some people prefer different things than others
MikeEdgerton
Dec-24-2008, 11:36pm
Hmmm, don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel. None of the newer Gibsons I've played give me that impression. I'd take the Gibson Grover tuners as the next best thing to Waverly tuners right now. Gibson purposely uses small fret wire by design, I'm guessing you could get them to install larger. I'm just wondering why all of the people that buy these new Gibsons did it if they are so bad? I do understand everyone has their preferences.
Some people buy them because they like the way they feel. Some people are endorsed by them. I think they are sometimes great mandolins like the Adam steffey model. But most of them are not very good in
My opinion. I think that alot of people get them for the name. Once again this is all my opinion. They have simply turned into a factory. Quantity not quality anymore. If you have 10k to spend On a new mandolin spend it on a small builders work. And why aren't waverlys on Gibson?
45ACP-GDLF5
Dec-25-2008, 1:48pm
The Master Model and the Distressed Master Model both, have Waverlys. The Skaggs DMM and the Victorian also have Waverlys.
Bernie Daniel
Dec-25-2008, 2:02pm
bowfinger: if you add the cost of someone doing a regraduation, I think it would be closer to another one that may please you better. But there are reasons to do that no doubt. But I don't think resale value is much better.
I agree with this 100% -- buy a mandolin that sounds right before you have to spend additional money and still maybe end up with what you don't want.
As to Gibson -- it sounds like you (mandokid123) have a "thing" against them from the git-go -- so why are you even bothering to ask about them?
Get a mandolin you like -- no one has to buy a Gibson unless they WANT to.
Many of us play Gibsons because they are the ones that started the modern American mandolin and many of us think they have a characteristic sound that we like and Bill Monroe and a lot of other great pickers use them and I'm sure there are other reasons.
It is not required that you share these views its a free world and as you note there are many excellent mandolin choices these days - including Gibson as well.
Why don't all Gibsons have Waverly tuners? Because that adds an additional $500 to the cost. I would guess that you could order anyGibson model with a set of Waverlys -- but expect to pay for them.
Like Mike says it is hard to imagine anyone who could not make do with Gibson Grovers -- they are excellent.
Finally I challenge you to find an all around better sounding mandolin -- for equal money -- to a new Gibson F-5 Fern. :)
http://www.poestrings.com/Mandolins/005.html
:))
I just completed your challenge. I am sorry, I didn't mean to insult anybody. Like I stated many times, It is my opinion. I enforce this strongly. I am not anti-gibson. I love old gibsons. You can't get much better than an old gibson. BUT, new gibsons are a different story(in my opinion).
jim_n_virginia
Dec-25-2008, 11:10pm
http://www.poestrings.com/Mandolins/005.html
:))
I just completed your challenge. I am sorry, I didn't mean to insult anybody. Like I stated many times, It is my opinion. I enforce this strongly. I am not anti-gibson. I love old gibsons. You can't get much better than an old gibson. BUT, new gibsons are a different story(in my opinion).
You comparing a Poe to a Gibson??? :)) :)) :))
Also good luck waiting the year and a half to get one.
Also I'm calling you on this one, you keep saying you don't mean to insult anyone but you do it anyway!
if it acts like a troll, smells like a troll and walks like a troll... well ??? :grin:
GTison
Dec-25-2008, 11:40pm
The Poe looks like a fine mandolin, I've never seen or heard one. Have you? You can get a fine mandolin for less than a Gibson. This is all an OLD TOPIC. Private/small builder vs. Gibson; Cadillac vs. Lexus vs. Corolla; Music style fitting the instrument; fingerboard extension or not; A vs. F; anyone wantapileon;
So are you looking at an 87 Gibson model?
When I purchased mine I played dozens of Gibson mandolins and other fine and not so fine mandolins from Birmingham,AL to Louisville, KY. Back then there were LOTS of dealers. I played as many as I could then bought the one that sounded the best to me. The one I thought I would always regret purchasing if I didn't get it. I could have purchased a Gib. Fern for at least $ 500 less somewhere else. I chose this one. She was not the prettiest Fern I played. But this one sounded better to me. And possibly ONLY me. It was in a Well known store in Nashville for Several months before I bought it. But something spoke to me in that mandolin that none of the others had.
One other thing I learned about shopping for a mandolin like I did was that a persons own opinion about the sound of the mandolin he likes is his own. There are a lot of similar sounds and a lot of different sounds in mandolins hanging on the walls of stores. It REALLY DOES without a doubt depend on what you like. One mandolin is not always really better just different.
If you can get a copy of the mandolin tasting CD it will prove to yourself what kind of ear you have. And what you can and can't really hear in a fancy little wooden box w/ strings attached. That was such an eye opener for me. The blind folded test works wonders.
now hands are another discussion soon to follow... another thread please
Nick Triesch
Dec-25-2008, 11:42pm
I have just got to say that all of the new Gibsons I have played have sounded great! And I think they play great when set up the way you like it. The main thing I like about them as a whole is that the New Gibson F type mandolins seem to have a huge bottom end. I like them so much in fact that a Gibson will be my next mandolin. My friends Gibson Doyle Lawson is the best mandolin I have ever played anywhere, anytime. Nick
MikeEdgerton
Dec-25-2008, 11:43pm
if it acts like a troll, smells like a troll and walks like a troll... well ???
Pretty much.
Bernie Daniel
Dec-26-2008, 12:27am
As noted by others I would agree -- the Poe looks nice.
The cost of a Poe is certainly looks reasonable for what you get -- IMO.
I have no comment other than comment that I have never seen one. And why would I have? Far less than 50 (even if you count the Driftwood models) Poe mandolins exist in this world.
Counting festivals, and camps etc. I know that I have played at least 50 newer Gibson F-model and maybe over the years more than a 100 Gibson F's total. Of the new ones I have yet to encounter what I would call a "bad" one. There are others on this forum who have play many more new Gibsons than I have and they have said the same thing.
So I guess my question is what is your actual evidence of these problems with new Gibson mandolins that you speak of? Gibsons are hand made mandolins also --factory or not and they are inspected and played before they are sold -- maybe the set up is bad from time to time for a particular player? So what does that have to do with Gibson QC in the build?
Further how do you know that you can compare a Poe with a Gibson in QC?
Have you played 10 Poe's (the world supply according to the web site) -- or have you even played 2 Poe's -- if not then how do you know anything about the consistency of the Poe mandolin? Or that he has better QC than Gibson?
Just for the record I am not questioning Andy Poe's mandolins -- merely pointing out that you probably have no basis for your comparison.
Likewise, you obviously you have little interest in new Gibson mandolins -- now that's your opinion.
But do you find Gibson owners coming on this forum and running down other makes or makers of mandolins? So why is it fine (or necessary) to do the reverse?
Get your ticket, get in line, and wait 18 months, pay your money and get your Poe -- and good for you. I'll be happy for you.
You can rest assured that I won't be starting a thead here questioning quality of Poe mandolins. I doubt other Gibson owners will either.
It REALLY DOES without a doubt depend on what you like. One mandolin is not always really better just different.
This is what I am saying. In my Opinion I don't like majority of new gibsons. I have played 4 that I like. Out of about 150 only 4. Ok this is what I like. I! as in me! I don't understand why you think I am trying to insult you. You don't know me. We don't share the same mind. Don't worry about it. I didn't mean to insult anyone. It all depends on what you like. In my opinion they aren't made as well as they used to. you told me not to sugar coat it so I told you the truth.
Read the whole thread mandolin 1944. I said im not a big fan of new gibsons. Someone asked me a question. they told me not to sugarcoat it. so i told you the truth. Don't get mad at me for answering a F***ing question.
G. Fisher
Dec-26-2008, 12:56am
Why do Gibson owners/fans have such thin skin?
FINALLY YOU SAVED ME GREG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you so much. they tried to kill me with their obsession with gibson
jim_n_virginia
Dec-26-2008, 2:23am
Why do Gibson owners/fans have such thin skin?
Why ya feedin the troll Greg??
jim_n_virginia
Dec-26-2008, 2:27am
FINALLY YOU SAVED ME GREG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you so much. they tried to kill me with their obsession with gibson
dood I have a funny feeling you don't even have a mandolin.
someone should shut this thread down it is inane.
Bernie Daniel
Dec-26-2008, 3:05am
mandokid123: Read the whole thread mandolin 1944. I said im not a big fan of new gibsons. Someone asked me a question. they told me not to sugarcoat it. so i told you the truth. Don't get mad at me for answering a F***ing question.
Someone asked YOU a question? First I heard of that. YOU have been the one asking the "questions".
And I read what you wrote and thus my remarks WERE about NEW Gibsons weren't they????????????????
And as a matter of fact you haven't had an responded to anything I've asked you.
You said the Poe was the answer -- but then when challenged on it you lash out. Have you even SEEN a Poe mandolin? Or did you just pick the first web site you could find to throw into this discussion?
You started a thread to BASH Gibson mandolins even though you are now trying to deny it. Everyone was courteous to you at the start and gave you detailed answers to your questions. But you kept it up -- now you are running for cover. You made this mess -- live with it. This stuff gets old after a while.
As for my part I have nothing more to "discuss" with you -- buy whatever mandolin you want.
Bernie Daniel
Dec-26-2008, 3:14am
G. Fisher: Why do Gibson owners/fans have such thin skin?
Maybe because we get a little tired of the same old meaningless, off the top of the head, unverified and no purpose doo doo Greg.
This was not a string started to "get information" -- that should be obvious. His "question" was answered in the first few replies wasn't it?
I don't come on the forum and bash other instruments and other instrument makers for no reason and thus I do not enjoy reading irrational diatribes on Gibson mandolins for NO APPARENT REASON other than to get under the skin of their owners. Guess what he accomplished his purpose.
This was a totally useless thread IMO.
Mike Snyder
Dec-26-2008, 3:20am
What Bernie said.
f5loar
Dec-26-2008, 10:01am
well I'll step in here and say I have run across some high end Gibson mandolins in stores that were very, very bad on set up. So bad I asked the store if I could make adjustments to it just so I could just try it out. They said they have a tech man to do that and they would do it while I wait. I did and it was no better so there in lies the problem. Most stores only have electric set up techs. Mandolins and banjos are different. Their banjos were no better. So if this "kid" had that type experience I can understand a reluctance not to buy new. However in defense of Gibson I feel most all do leave the factory properly set up at the time. It's after the shipping and settling in they need to be reset up again and this is not getting done. It's beyond Gibson's control on their dealers ability to do so. Add this to Gibson's rather high price and no deep discounts to be found anymore and you see the need for used.
Bernie Daniel
Dec-26-2008, 11:14am
f5Loar: However in defense of Gibson I feel most all do leave the factory properly set up at the time. It's after the shipping and settling in they need to be reset up again and this is not getting done. It's beyond Gibson's control on their dealers ability to do so. Add this to Gibson's rather high price and no deep discounts to be found anymore and you see the need for used.
I agree! This was the point I tried to make earlier in the discussion but it was ignored by the original poster. I don't mind taking Gibson the company to task if they give someone a raw deal -- Gibson is run by people and people screw up now and then.
But I am tired of the constant theme that "Gibson mandolins of such and such a period or such and such a model are no good, not worth it, sound terrible, and on and on. Generalize, unspecified charges -- its nonsense.
Everyone acknowledges the period in the 50's through the 70's was clouded as far as Gibson instruments was concerned.
But this discussion was about 1987 (and later models?).
IMO none of this generalized bashing on the newer Gibson offerings -- last 20 years or so -- is justified. If you want to mention a specific problem(s) with specific mandolins (or even a specific model) -- fine I'm sure they are out there -- no mandolin or mandolin maker is perfect.
But statements like I just "don't like ANY new Gibson mandolins" are ridiculous -- I won't speculate why such statements are made you can all make you own decision on that.
But think of the absudity of it. All new Gibsons are bad?
This implies that all new Gibson mandolins sound or play the same doesn't it? If they do all sound the same (good or bad) then how can anyone ding Gibson's QC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that same person would probably take offense at Gibson owners however when they claim that their mandolin has that "Gibson sound" wouldn't they?
And isn't this string number 10,00th or so in this "series"?
Again, IMO the new (modern?) Gibson mandolins are on a par with anything made now or ever made. Period.
Sure the best Gibsons of the Loar ear are outstanding (and they costs $150 - 200K if you can find one for sale); sure a Gilchrist mandolin is outstanding (if you happen to have $35K handy and a year or so to wait) -- but for $16K you CAN buy today a Gibson MM will be on a par (I did not say equal) with these other fine mandolins and you CAN buy a $6-7K Gibson F-5 Fern is certainly within "shouting range" of these much more expensive instruments.
If Gibson mandolins are so bad why do so many play them? I say those of us who favor Gibson products don't HAVE to keep taking this sitting down -- just my opinion!!! Other instruments are not continually bashed why Gibson?
MikeEdgerton
Dec-26-2008, 11:18am
The OP's last post does show that this is a troll, it's time for it to go away.
Ted Eschliman
Dec-26-2008, 11:33am
Read the whole thread mandolin 1944. I said im not a big fan of new gibsons. Someone asked me a question. they told me not to sugarcoat it. so i told you the truth. Don't get mad at me for answering a F***ing question.
Okay, so school's out and you're already bored with the Guitar Hero you got under the tree yesterday. This is a forum for mature discussion and further flaming will not be tolerated.
Get outside and find something else to do besides starting trouble here.