Some head scratching: Gibson A-4

[Bernie Daniel]

I have been looking at a very mint Gibson A-4 (early teens - black top with Handels) -- it looks like its hardly ever been out of the case. I am thinking of offering $2600 for it (might be worth more - not sure?).

But my problem is I feel that as nice as it I really should probably focus on finding a post-1921 model with a truss - in my mind those are worth about $500 - $600 more than the pre-'21's -- all else equal on the condition (but no Handels of course).

So I am also aware of a 1926 A-4 (red sunburst) -- also nice condition -- not quite the equal of the older black top -- but with a higher $3200 price tag.

I'm thinking the later might be a better deal overall if I could get it for closer to $3K?

Do others feel this way? :confused:

[Tom C]

While I love the looks of the teens A and Fs, whenever I pick one up, I am usually disappointed. On the other hand, most 20's snakeheads usually strike a chord in me :)

[allenhopkins]

Bernunzio has two pre-truss-rod A-4's on sale, one for $1600 and one for $2000. You might check his listings. (http://www.bernunzio.com/listing.php?type=Mandolin) Unless you've got an exceptional gem there, I think $3K might be high.

But having said that, individual variations among instruments often trump generalizations about what model from what era is the best. I would just say I'd be more comfortable south of $3K than above it.

[Bernie Daniel]

Great advice Allan! Thanks.

I did not think of looking there -- I had looked on several other big mandolin sales sites though.

How much of a premium would you give for a truss rod?

I kind of feel better having one although in truth neck problems are much less common than top sinking on these mandolins.

[Bill Van Liere]

Bernie- I usually like most any A-4 that I pick up, and if the neck is good after all these years I am not sure a truss rod would be worth much to me. But, I recently obtained a 24 Snakehead Jr. and it is tonewise a whole different game than my 1917 Paddlehead. No truss rod in the 24 but still a very good neck.

[Bob DeVellis]

It's completely a matter of personal taste, but I actually like the tone of the pre-trussrod Gibsons. I traded a '24 snakehead (plus some less illustrious stuff) for a 1917 F4 with no regrets. There is a fairly consistent sound difference between the two eras and it's probably worth determining which you prefer. I think of the later ones as a tad closer to an f-hole in tone -- less warm, but with more projection. Whether that's good or bad depends on what you're looking for.

[Brad Weiss]

Hmmm, I recently acquired a 1920 A-4 in generally fine shape (all original parts, no cracks at all, no top sinkage, straight neck) for MUCH less than $2600 (and I was the only one to show any interest). As it is, I think I got a good deal, but often feel I could have been willing (and wise?) to pay even less for a lesser-than-A-4. I'm happy, but I wouldn't be had I paid $2600.

2¢...

[Bernie Daniel]

Lost of good thoughts. Tradeoffs -- like everything esle in life these days.

One other thought I had too -- one of the reasons the later truss rodded ovals tend to be more expensive is probably just that they are relatively less common.


I have a 1936 K-1 and I don't recall that I've ever seen another 'cello with a truss rod.

[fiddledoc]

In '26 it has a prety good chance of having maple back and sides and the laid back neck angle. Much different than a teens mando. If its a snake head it is worth much more.

[Michael Cameron]

I have a 1913,black,A4. I have to admit I love the Handel buttons(mine have 5-point stars in the middle). Alas,my A4 has some issues/needs a new fretboard,set-up. I may narrow the neck some. It's not minty enough to be a highly sought after collectable;has a separated back seam that has been re-glued(by a novice).

I really like the looks of that A3 at Bernunzio's! It has been re-necked with an adj. TR. No Handels.

The sound of early teens Gibsons is,generally,a mandolin sound I really love.
I'm not crazy about the neck dimensions...

I'm glad to see some Handel-style buttons being made. Hook them up to some Waverly's....!!

[sgarrity]

An minty early teens black top A4 with Handels for $2600? Sounds like a deal to me.

A friend of mine bought the exact same mandolin, I believe it's a '17 or '18 and paid $4k for it.
It was absolutely mint though. Looks like it's been in a time capsule.

[Michael Cameron]

This one has been rode hard and put up wet. It's on my to-do list.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mdc50/IMG_0672.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mdc50/IMG_0673.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mdc50/IMG_0674.jpg
The neck and/or fretboard is bowed;I'm thinking of just replacing the fb,maybe put a Red Henry bridge on it.http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mdc50/IMG_0681.jpg

[Jim Garber]

A friend has a 1921 F4 (non-truss) that is one of the sweetest oval hole Gibsons I have ever heard. I think that cusp of Loar era is worth looking at.

[MikeEdgerton]

... I think that cusp of Loar era is worth looking at.

You have to figure that the guys that built the Loars were already building at Gibson at that time.

[danb]

You can get good ones from just about any era.. there's nothing really to say that Loar period ones are superior to the earlier ones, but a lot of folks chase after them for the period vibe and mojo.

[grassrootphilosopher]

Mike,
apart from the price question concerning the mandolin, I would focus more on the question what music I would want to play with the mandolin.

If I were playing parlor music, classical concerto stuff (think of tea and cake in your parlor while the low murrmur of the folks in victorian dresses seem to intertwine with the music in a spirited way) I would seek out the teens blacktop thingy (or an A 3). If I were more into folk, Irish music (think of a union hall in New York, celebrating St. Patrick´s Day, the punch is strong, the smoke curls up to the ceiling and the folks dance to a group of people that play "Winds That Shake The Barley") I would prefer the truss rod A 4.

But man, that´s all personal taste. It´s all about tone.

[Chunky But Funky]

How much of a premium would you give for a truss rod?



I have a 1918 A4 that I got for next to nothing, from a family who essentially just wanted me to have it. No one in their family played. I had a little work done to get it more playable / stable. Interestingly enough, I was quoted about $600 to have the carbon fiber rod placed to stabilize the neck, if it became necessary in the future. I just wanted to know what I was getting myself into if it started to self destruct after stringing it to pitch and playing it for a while after it had been essentially untouched for 40+ years. I could have done without the clarinet mouthpiece ring and metal music holder on top of the mando in the case when we first opened it! I do love the sound of mine though!

Doug

[Michael Cameron]

You can get good ones from just about any era.. there's nothing really to say that Loar period ones are superior to the earlier ones, but a lot of folks chase after them for the period vibe and mojo.

I've been lucky enough to own two F4 Gibsons;one truss-rodded('24) and one 1913,black. I know it's all subjective;but, I much prefer the tone of the early teen one that I have. These are the only two I have played extensively enough to judge.

I sold the Loar-era F4 years ago.

The neck dimensions are just as bad(in my opinion) on both. Wide,thick,and a very sharp "V".

One mandolin I hope to have someday is a white-face A3(like Nancy's). Yep,Appalachian Chamber Music/parlour music...I likey.

[allenhopkins]

Bernie, let us all know what you decide to do...