Interesting Classifieds experience

[Got8Strings]

The "new vs used" thread inspired me to mention a recent experience in buying from the classified ads here. I made a mistake and learned a lesson that others may benefit from.

As some of you may recall from a thread almost a year ago, I fell in love with the Phoenix Neoclassical when I tried one at Elderly. It was way out of my price range at the time so I started saving.

Recently I started watching the classified ads and a used one popped up. Then another. The first one came down in price so I decided the time was right. There was no picture in the ad and I had a few questions, so I called the seller. He is a nice (85 year old) gentleman who isn't tech savvy enough to post a picture, but we talked about the mandolin, where he bought it, etc. He had arthritis and thought the Neoclassical would allow him to continue playing because of its light construction and extra-light strings. But sadly, no.

I decided to buy. We arranged it and when it arrived I opened up the case and was surprised that it looked a little different than what I expected. Instead of a ebony tailpiece it had a metal one. Instead of black tuning knobs they were pearl. I looked a little closer. There was an jack in the end pin. He never mentioned that! I looked inside - the label identified it as a Phoenix Custom.

So I emailed Phoenix with the serial number and asked for info. Rolfe emailed me back and told me all about this instrument. It was a Phoenix Standard that is considered "custom' because of the endpin jack, being built to Deluxe specs, having smaller dots on the neck, and because he used the stain color from the Ultra model on it. It is not a Neoclassical.

Which got me to thinking:
A) I should have thought to get the serial# before buying and found out more before making the decision - especially since there was no picture. It would have been obvious that it was not a Neoclassical if there was a picture.

B) I feel bad for the seller because apparently HE thought he bought a Neoclassical from the store (who I won't identify) and it wasn't what he thought it was. He specifically chose that model because of his arthritis.

C) He most likely didn't even know the endpin jack was in there or he would have mentioned it - it makes the mandolin more valuable. Did he pay for something he didn't even want or know about?

I decided to keep the mandolin - I can string it with extra-light strings and it should play just like a Neoclassical, though it is a bit heavier, and having the built-in jack may come in handy. But I was a bit disappointed that it wasn't what I wanted and angry at myself for not being more careful.

[Elliot Luber]

That's why you should ask for the 48-hour approval when you buy an instrument online, especially sight unseen. The guy was clearly not trying to pull a fast one -- it may be worth more than he realized -- but it just wasn't what you had expected. If it's not what you want you can easily put it back in the classifieds. Might even make a profit on it too. Sounds like a good instrument. It's tough for an 85-year-old to do business online. It's a cultural shock and I'm impressed. My dad's just 80 with a masters in electrical engineering, and I can't get him online for anything. He helped put a man on the moon, but I can't get him to do email.

[Got8Strings]

He did offer a 2 day approval, but the added value of the unexpected amplifier jack somewhat balances out the fact that it isn't exactly what I was expecting. It is pretty close to what I wanted. It is gorgeous, sounds wonderful, plays easily - so I decided to hang on to it.

I know I can turn around and sell it if I want to, so that option is always there.

But the big lesson for me was - get the serial# in advance and research the instrument. Even with a picture it would be a good idea. Some information you might learn wouldn't be visually obvious enough to show in a picture. And the seller might not be purposefully misleading - he may be poorly informed.

[jim_n_virginia]

This what you need to do... keep the one you got and STILL get the Neo Classical! :mandosmiley:

You can NEVER have too many mandolins!

[delsbrother]

Once you found out the seller did not have what he thought he had, did you tell him?

If not I suppose you're telling him now.

[guitharsis]

Wow. Interesting experience for sure. Like opening a gift on Christmas day and not knowing really what to expect. Just checked out the Phoenix mandolins. The prices for the Neoclassical and the Standard are the same and $200 more for the endpin jack. That was a nice surprise. The color of the Ultra looks so similar to the Neoclassical, maybe even the store thought it was a Neoclassical.
All in all, it sounds as if you got a great, gorgeous looking mando at a nice price.

[Got8Strings]

Once you found out the seller did not have what he thought he had, did you tell him?

If not I suppose you're telling him now.

I did write a letter to him explaining the situation because I'm concerned that maybe the store took advantage of him and I wanted him to have the benefit of a little skepticism in case he does buy again. Given his arthritis problem I doubt he'll be buying again, but still - I felt he should be aware.

[Got8Strings]

Wow. Interesting experience for sure. Like opening a gift on Christmas day and not knowing really what to expect. Just checked out the Phoenix mandolins. The prices for the Neoclassical and the Standard are the same and $200 more for the endpin jack. That was a nice surprise. The color of the Ultra looks so similar to the Neoclassical, maybe even the store thought it was a Neoclassical.
All in all, it sounds as if you got a great, gorgeous looking mando at a nice price.


I can't figure out which is more unlikely: A) that this well known store that we are all familiar with didn't know it was not a Neoclassical, or B) that they purposely deceived this old guy. There may be some other explanation because these both seem highly unlikely.

[Ken Feil]

Guess its a good lesson to try to see and play the instrument if at all possible. Second best is to see a photo although I can understand the seller not being able to post one. I'm 72 and have no clue how to post a photo.

[mrmando]

I can't figure out which is more unlikely: A) that this well known store that we are all familiar with didn't know it was not a Neoclassical, or B) that they purposely deceived this old guy.

The OP did not name the store. A third possibility is that the man who bought the instrument did not know that there are different Phoenix models, and thought that any Phoenix was a Neoclassical.

[Got8Strings]

The OP did not name the store. A third possibility is that the man who bought the instrument did not know that there are different Phoenix models, and thought that any Phoenix was a Neoclassical.

The possibility you mention is certainly plausible. Being the original retail purchaser he had the benefit of a receipt and other info that would have come with the instrument, but he may not have looked at it or seen anything in it that contradicted his mistaken assumption.

BTW - I am the OP

[The Mandolin Store]

We sold this mandolin - it was clearly advertised as a Used 2006 Phoenix Custom - I looked it up just to make sure. At no time was the customer ever told it was a Neoclassical. He called us to buy it so he had to have read the ad on our site. This particular customer (who I know very well) bought the instrument (in April) because of the low price we were offering it for.

Thanks,

[Got8Strings]

Thanks for chiming in Dennis. I purposely chose not to identify the store since it was impossible to draw any firm conclusions from the information I had. Now it is easier to see what went wrong.

It seems that between the time he bought it and the time he put it up for sale, the gentleman I bought the mandolin from somehow got the mistaken idea that what he had was a Neoclassical and advertised it as such. I don't think there was any intent to mislead - no doubt it was an innocent mistake. And without a picture in the ad which would have raised a red flag about the identity of the instrument, I made the purchase - only to be surprised when it arrived.

The seller mentioned on the phone that he had bought it from Dennis but did not tell me he bought it used. I incorrectly assumed that having bought it at a retail store it must have been new when he bought it. It didn't occur to me to ask if he bought it new.

So... reinforcing the original point of this thread - especially in the absence of a picture in the ad, I should have researched this instrument more before the purchase. But even with a picture, the research would be worthwhile After all - an endpin jack would likely not be evident in a picture, and I still believe that the seller did not know it was there.

So this entire sequence was a comedy of errors which I, as the buyer, should have caught. Live and learn.