Franken-Gibson on eBay

[mrmando]

OK, how about this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Vintage-A-Style-Mandolin-Brilliant-Sound-MustSee_W0QQitemZ180296172090QQcmdZViewItem?hash=i tem180296172090&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A10|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)?

The Orville label and elevated pickguard with violin-style clamp would indicate 1908-1910; it seems to have a good deal in common with this A3 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?328). Headstock inlay is one of the worst I've ever seen ... shall we assume the faceplate was replaced? Then there's the truss rod, '50s TPC, and adjustable rosewood bridge...

[Jim Garber]

Hey, maybe the regular headstock inlayer was out sick that day but they had to get the order out so the janitor was enlisted. :)

Attached for historical purposes.

Years ago I bought a 3 point F that some drunken luthier had replaced the "on" upside down. I called it the "Gibsno".

Actually, other than that mismanaged headstock, everything else is replaceable with time and money. Could be an okay buy for a decent A... and a conversation piece to boot (literally and figuratively?)

[danb]

bridge, tailpiece, neck and lacquer overfinish look 50s to me

[TomTyrrell]

I'm thinking this one is a resurrection. Still might not be a bad mando if you could get it for $500.

[jefflester]

Nice photos, such detail.

[MikeEdgerton]

You might be able to chalk the headstock inlay up to the time it appears to have been redone. They were pretty heavy into decals and screens at that time and it might have been a lost art at Gibson.

[Jim Broyles]

Okay, for us non-experts who want to learn - are you guys saying that this is a 20's A-3 with a 50's refinish job? What about the Orville label? I don't guess it's an '08-'10 body with a truss rod neck put on in the 50's, could it be? What do you all think happened on the bass side rim up by the neck joint? It looks like a piece of the rim, including the binding was cut out and put back in.

[mrmando]

I'm saying with the Orville label and that pickguard/clamp assembly, it probably is an '08-'10 body. Whoever did the trussrod, refin, bridge, and tailpiece also redid the headstock plate and "The Gibson" inlay.

If that's the original headstock plate, then this is an A2. If it were an A3, the original headstock plate would have a vine inlay decoration.

[danb]

I'm saying with the Orville label and that pickguard/clamp assembly, it probably is an '08-'10 body. Whoever did the trussrod, refin, bridge, and tailpiece also redid the headstock plate and "The Gibson" inlay.

If that's the original headstock plate, then this is an A2. If it were an A3, the original headstock plate would have a vine inlay decoration.

Well, an A3 didn't get the signature vine or "squiggle" consistently until the 191x models. Sometimes it's a couple tulips, sometimes something else.

The body looks like an Orville label one anywhere from 04/05 to 10 to me, basically it's after the dramatically thick tops from 02/03. However, the pickguard clamp with violin chin rest style hardware is an 09 or 10 design. Those are a short-lived feature, the teens "clamp" has a patent date in 1911, and the original raised guards have an '09 patent date. Put those features together and we're probably looking at serial 86xx-10xxx.

The tailpiece cover and thick lacquer finish (as well as the less delicate inlay in the peghead) make me think 50s work. The marks by the neck body join on the side could be lacquer crazing, and could be grafts or other issues with the side wood. Thick lacquer such as this gets big checks in it.

[Jim Broyles]

Dan, you think this is lacquer crazing? ? ?

[TomTyrrell]

This just looks like a "basket-case" rebuild to me. Early body that had serious neck problems (probably broken or badly warped) mated to a neck that may have come from a mandolin with a crushed or badly split body.

These things were cheap in the 1950s and 1960s. A handy person who wanted a mandolin could put one together for very little money.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'd go with a GIbson repair. I had a 32 F2 that came through a few years back that had been refinished in the late 50's/early 60's. It was a little cleaner than this but had the new neck including the modern decal on the headstock.

[mrmando]

Dan, you think this is lacquer crazing? ? ?
JB: That small piece of binding has definitely been grafted in there, and it looks like the shoulder cap (is that ebony?) may have also been replaced or reglued.

Dan: Thanks for the note about A3 headstocks. I think I've seen exactly one old Gibson with the two-tulip inlay, although I don't recall if it was an A3 or not. But am I correct in thinking that there's no such thing as an original-condition A3 with an undecorated headstock?

Anyway, I think it's interesting that 8641, another A3 from the same period, also has a '50s rosewood bridge and a truss rod.

[Darryl Wolfe]

I have some doubts as to the authenticity of the neck. The inlay is unquestionably not Gibson and is an attempt to copy the "open pattern" "The Gibson" that first appeared in 1923. The skunk stripe on the neck does not appear at the end view of the peghead which is not correct and of course we have the truss rod located in an unusual position whereas the original would not have had one to begin with. The neck heel looks rather large too. The fingerboard is newer and not Gibson. Overall it appears to be a relatively nice restoration using lacquer and was performed by a reasonably competant luthier in the mid 60's using a new Gibson talpiece and bridge. The body may have been rebound, but I cannot tell for certain.

edit: I think the body is rebound, it looks too thick

[Jim Broyles]

Okay, what's the deal with 8641? Replaced neck? Darryl, I don't see an end view of the peghead.
Is this stripe not showing if we could see the end of the peghead?

[Darryl Wolfe]

Yes, and there is another photo just below that one

[Jim Broyles]

Yeah, when I was looking, that other photo never loaded. I went up and down the images on the listing looking for the end shot of the peghead. Thanks.

[mrmando]

Well, it turns out a fellow in my mandolin orchestra bought this Franken-Gibson for $650, and I got to play it last night. Very nice sound. It bears every mark of having been refinished, refitted, and renecked in the '50s or '60s. Lacquer crazing all over.

There is a bit of top sinkage, and I suggested that my pal have the brace looked at. But it is my opinion that he got a very nice player for a reasonable price. The original pickguard with its chinrest clamp is a conversation piece in itself. SN appears to be 7999; first 3 digits of the FON were 547 if memory serves. I didn't have a flashlight and couldn't catch the last digit.