Gibson A worth saving?

[Matt Spencer]

I friend of mine has offered to sell me this mandolin. I am trying to find out some information about it and its possible value. I have been told that based on its serial number and build lot number that it was made during Lloyd Loar’s tenure at Gibson. As you can see form the photos the top is in good shape and so is the neck but there are some problems. It is missing the cover for the tailpiece; the truss rod cover is wrong the back of the headstock and part of the neck has been “extended” for better reach? Worst of all is the back. It has come unglued form the neck and tail block. I know that this is not unusual for Gibson of this age but it will still have to be fixed. The only reason I am thinking about buying this instrument is that the tone in AMAZEING! Normally I would run not walk away for this instrument but this one has some magic. So the question is, what might be the actual date of this mandolin, what would it be worth if the back and neck were good. I am hoping to make in informed offer and yes I am also taking to a reputable repairperson next week. Thanks in advance and I look forward to hearing what ya’ll have to say.

[Weagle]

Yes, I have one of those old A's and I love the sound also.

To answer your questions and thoughts, It depends on what you want to put in it. I have $450 in mine with repairs without a pick guard. A good luthier would be able to fix all of the apparent problems but the cover for your strings at the base. You will have to find one. If it does not say Loar on the inside of the mandolin it does not matter really what year it was made because with time it IS going to sound great but not have a great value. Just boils down to the money and the need.

Hope this helps. I read the above and I did not mean for it to sound like I am trying to be smart.

Hope you buy it, repair it, and enjoy it.

Weagle

[mrmando]

You can find the year of manufacture by looking up the serial number. Given that it has a truss rod and an adjustable bridge, it very likely is from the Loar period, but as noted, this doesn't mean much given that (a) someone filed down the headstock and (b) it's not a Master Model instrument with a Loar signature. I should think it's worth a little less than $1,000, given the alterations and needed repairs. You can spend $175 for a vintage tailpiece cover or just get a modern replacement for a lot less ... with what happened to the headstock, this will never be a collector's item anyway. If it plays great, then get it ... but you shouldn't have to pay collector prices for it.

[Red Henry]

Looks good to me. In the photos, I can't tell anything wrong with the neck joint itself or any cracks in the top and back, so it's just a reassembly job. A good repairperson can reglue the back and set the instrument up to play, and then-- the sound ought to be even better!

Red

[MikeEdgerton]

Is there anoher picture that shows the modification of the headstock? If it was modified I might be tempted modify it more and make it a snakehead.

[Wolfboy]

The tone and the playability are the most important things, and if as you say the tone is amazing I'd say go for it, even with the repairs. I have a 1920 A that's a mindblower (IMO) and I paid $1500 for it in good repair (a bit dinged up but nothing structurally wrong) which seems more or less the going rate for A's of that vintage in good shape. In your case, of course, I'd expect your friend to take the cost of repairs into consideration when setting a price...

The one you have there wouldn't be any earlier than mid-1921, because that's when they introduced truss rods. Loar was with Gibson from 1918 (I think) until the end of 1924, so assuming yours is no later than that, yes, it's Loar-era. I had an interesting discussion about that with Dave Harvey at Kamp Kaufman this summer - I commented jokingly that my A was "Loar-era" before conceding that that meant nothing for a low-end mando like that, but he disagreed; he's of the opinion that Loar's presence at the company made itself felt in the quality of all the mandolins they were building at the time, not just the ones he was signing. And Dave's opinion is good enough for me in anything regarding Gibson mandolins.

As for the missing tailpiece cover and the later truss rod cover: who cares? (At least that would be my attitude.)

[Zigeuner]

Wolfboy is correct that the presence of the truss rod shows that it was probably during the Loar period although we don't know what year it is absent a serial number.

They are indeed great sounding mandolins. I have had a 1917 Model A-3 for almost 30 years now and they do have an excellent sound.

Unless you are getting the instrument very cheap, I would stay away from it given the neck issue. I've seen some very nice complete A Models on eBay in the past year at prices that I thought were quite reasonable, around $1,000 for some.

It would help if you could do the repairs yourself, of course. As mentioned, those original tailpiece covers are getting pricey as are the pickguards and side clamps, although it appears that the mandolin has those in place.

Good luck whatever you decide. :)

[Timbofood]

If you like the sound and it feels good, and it is within your budget, I would do it! Nothing that needs doing looks too far out of reach for a luthier with some knowledge. The "snake head conversion" could be a lot of fun too!

[allenhopkins]

1] You say it's a "Gibson A." Does it have a label inside with an "A" penciled on the line after the "Model" indicator, or are you just saying "A" because you can tell it's one of Gibson's A models, due to its shape? Here are Vintage Guitar's specs for the Gibson "A" model for the apparent period of your instrument:
1918 A model specs:
Brown finish.
1923 A model specs:
Snakehead peghead.
1928 A model specs:
Standard peghead.
A model discontinued 1933.

2] If it does have a label inside, there should be a serial number penciled on it. There will also be a factory order number written inside, not on the label. Here's a link (http://www.provide.net/~cfh/gibson.html#serial) to a website with serial number and factory order number information.

3] Looks like the treble side of the peghead has been shaved down, and the end of the tuner strip cut back -- to accommodate someone's big hands, perhaps? Plays havoc with the resale value of the instrument, but not a major problem in playing it. To restore it (or convert it to a snakehead, as suggested above) would be a large-scale job, but doable.

4] If the back's not warped, or hasn't deformed so much it needs to be re-sized to be glued back to the sides, it's eminently restorable. Looks from the photos that the neck/body joint is still OK, though we can't check the pitch of the neck from the photo angles.

5] Vintage tailpiece covers are hard to find, and costly, but you can get a modern cover that will fit the old tailpiece base.

6] Don't know what the seller's asking for the mandolin, but if you're really impressed with the sound, and either have the skills to reattach the back, or know a reputable repair shop to do it for you, I'd go for it.

[Matt Spencer]

1. Yes the label is stamped not penciled in “A” in the model field of the white oval label.

2. The serial number is penciled in and is 68546 and the order number that is stamped on the neck block in ink is 11603. According to the information on the website that you linked me to that should put the mandolin around 1921-1922

3. Yes it is and big hands are as good a guess as I have heard. I was told by the current owner whose great grandfather was the original owner of the instrument that he modified all his instruments in some way or another.

4. I am no luthier but I have built several banjos and refretted many instruments and done setup and nut making on more guitars than I care to remember. So I can say that the back is not warped but the sides are starting to splay out so the sides will have to be brought back into alignment and then the back can be glued back on.

5. I’m not too worried about the missing tailpiece cover I will more than likely just put a modern cover on and keep an eye out for a vintage one.

6. The sound in outstanding. I have some experience reglueing backs but not ones that have splayed out sides. I have read the excellent article on the “Frets” website on how to make a side straitening jig and I may try that. I also know some very talented mandolin makers that are willing to put the back on for me if I can’t.

[Fliss]

I really like the look of that, and I think once the repairs are done, it will be a very nice mando.

If it was me, I'd get the repairperson's estimate for the cost of repairs and subtract that figure from its potential future value (i.e. what it will be worth after the repairs as a "player's" instrument rather than a "collector's" instrument) then take a little more off that for the fact that you'd be the one having to arrange to get the work done, and I'd make an offer based on that figure.

Fliss

[mandroid]

age wise '22-'23 or so, should, guess, be around there..
I have an A-0 '22 66702, w/o T-rod, and an A4 67219 with T-rod,
and nickel plated cover that highlights the new feature.
both are '22, I think.
Made sense the feature would trickle down the model line.. A4 first,

the extra knuckle space to get to the F note on the high string is a good feature..

looks like the back , unbound on A-0's has been loose for a while , but should be able to be glued back on, without needing a refinish .

I caught the back of mine just as it was starting to separate , and had it given the 'stitch-in-time'
glue job.

[Marcus CA]

You'll probably enjoy this link:

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/list_mandolins.pl?teens:15

They have #68549 listed, with a pretty thorough description under the "Description" tab.

I have that same model and absolutely love it. You instantly can understand what people mean by an instrument "opening up."

[GTison]

with those repairs needed. and head stock alterations, I'd guess about $500 +or - a hundred.
Seems like A's have come back down from about 2 or 3 years ago. Am I wrong?

[Gail Hester]

This mandolin has about $500 worth of parts and only needs some common repairs. Even with the modified headstock I would agree with Martin at valuing it at close to $1000, IMHO.