Right hand technique

[Huda]

Hi all,

I've been playing mandolin and bouzouki for almost four years, and I still don't feel comfortable using a pick.

I have gotten into a habit of using my fingernails for chords, and a pick for melodies, but: (1) it is hard to switch back and forth between pick and fingernails, and (2) I feel that there has got to be a better way.

Specifically:

1. When I play chords with a pick, the pick wants to fly out of my hands!

2. When I play chords with my fingernails, it feels so right! But: (1) It is destroying my pointer fingernail, and (2) I feel that I "should" be playing with a pick.

3. When I play melody with a pick, I can go fast and sound good. But it is hard to swtich between melody (with a pick) and chords (with no pick).

4. When I play melody with my fingernails, I mimick the up-down motion of a pick by playing thumb-pointer finger on the two strings of a single course. With this technique, I can't play fast or sound particularly good.

Help!

Any suggestions?

[Klaus Wutscher]

While, to my (limited) knowledge, there is a school of playing the mandolin with fingers, it is pretty much restricted to historic instruments, that are gut-stringed precedors of the "modern" mandolin, tuned to 4ths (Eugene may chime in on this matter). As you found out, playing the mandolin with fingers produces a very quiet tone which may appeal in certain situations, but is simply not practical when playing with other people. You could try to use metal fingerpicks, but you would have to adjust your strumming technique, so that may not work for you.

Another problem is the short scale and high string tension, and the double strings. It´s a combination that doesn´t lend itself too well to fingerpicking. Different story on an octave - that could possibly work.

Personaly, I would try to get comfortable with a pick. Chances are you may find a pick with a tone you like, and you´ll be fine. Plus, you can rely on a wealth of information (books, DVDs...)to improve as a player. If you stay with fingerpicking, you are pretty much doing your own thing. Nothing wrong with that, but try not to paint yourself in the corner of the room. The world of the mandolin is a nice, but small room to begin with!

[JeffD]

Check out Kenny Hall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTU4_Apvplw&feature=related

[foldedpath]

I've gone down this path a little, but there are some problems with getting enough volume without tearing up the nails, and the string spacing is pretty tight at the bridge. That's great for flatpicking, not so great for getting your fingers in there. Even if you use fingerpicks for volume, you'll still run into that spacing problem. There are "fingerpicked" short scale, multi-course instruments like charangos that have similar spacing, but they're mostly used for fast-strummed chords across all the strings, and not single note lines. And most of these have nylon strings that won't tear up your hands, like the high-tension steel wires on a mandolin.

What I ended up doing, was sticking with flatpick for standard mandolin, and then for fingerstyle I bought a Breedlove "Radim Zenkl" signature model mandola. This has four (single course) strings, a wider than normal fretboard and bridge spacing, and a humbucker pickup. I use flatwound TI strings that are easier on my nails than roundwounds. Although it has some acoustic tone, I always play it through an amp so I don't have to work my right hand nails too hard. Here's Radim Zenkl playing this model: Radim Zenkl fingerstyle mandola (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l63FWu8d-rQ)

If you want to stick with the un-amplified, acoustic approach, you could try a thumb pick for single note lines and the more aggressive chording, while also using your fingers for extended chording. That would solve the "pick flying out of your fingers" problem. I've seen Radim Zenkl use that hybrid approach too -- thumb pick plus fingers. And you could try removing half the strings for more finger-friendly spacing, but then you'll lose some volume unless you go with the pickup/amp route.

Fingerstyle is still something of a sideline for me, but I'm working on it. I use the Zenkl mandola for fooling around with blues and a little beginner jazz, mostly solo playing. When I play with others, it's mostly OldTime and ITM and I use a standard flatpick approach with a normal mandolin. For me, that's a better match for informal acoustic jams where an amp wouldn't always fit in or be "acceptable."

[mandroid]

Huda, I will suggest looking for some thumb-flatpick combinations,
Herco makes a variety of thicknesses, effectively a flatpick with a loop around your thumb, so it wont fly out of your hand ,
and it will stay there while you use your fingers for something else.
then grip with your index finger for upstrokes and such.

Elderly has some others, but I have only personal exposure to the Hercos

[mandolirius]

<I've been playing mandolin and bouzouki for almost four years, and I still don't feel comfortable using a pick.

Help! Any suggestions?>

A simple one, but it proved very effective for me. Keep a pick in your pocket or wallet at all times. When your right hand isn't otherwise engaged, hold the pick in the way you would if you were playing. You can even do it when you're doing things like driving.

This piece of advice came to me from Roland White, who said it worked for him. It worked for me, too.

[Eugene]

Indeed, Klaus. #I don't have too much to add to your assessment. #I think it's hard to generate much volume with fingers on modern steel-string instruments that weren't designed for fingerstyle (i.e., punteado). #There were earlier wire-strung instruments where punteado was standard (renaissance-era orpharion and various baroque-era citterns, e.g.), but they were strung at pretty low tension.

I cut my musical teeth on guitar with plectra: first strumming cowboy songs with my grandpa and then ####### with heavy metal bands. #I decided I'd like to emulate classical guitar players in my late teens, first in a weird heavy metal context. #I started playing with a pick gripped in thumb (in classical guitar notation (p) and index (i) in conjunction with rather long nails on middle (m), ring (a), and pinkie (c). #It was a little unorthodox, and when I decided I was more interested in a more dexterous approach to the dedicated classical guitar repertoire, I had to work to get i to behave how it should. #However, it might be an approach that serves the kind of thing you'd like to do, Huda. #Do keep in mind that extra-light tension electric guitar strings tear up nails much less than the kind of tension on acoustic mandolin kin. #There are also plenty of advantages to working up greater facility for established techniques if you take the time to work for them.