Red diamond, heiden, bentrup, ellis

[red7flag]

I have picked a few, but certainly have left some out. Please feel free to add to the list. Looking for an F style model with F holes. Would really like the Cafe's input. This is a LONG term project. I do want a builder willing to make an extension something similar to a Collings extention (45 degree). Thanks to you in the Cafe. You keep me excited.
Tony

[jasona]

Of that list I have only picked a few Heidens and a Brentrup. I'd be happy with either--but the Heiden's have a neck that fits my hand perfectly. Andrew Collins' first F5 (the sitka topped one) was by far the most comfortable mandolin I've ever had the pleasure of picking for a bit.

[Rick Schmidlin]

I would say Heiden or Red Diamond, I had contacted Don about an A Varnish which he priced at $7,000.00 and the F at 12,000.00. I think Heiden and Recd Diamonds are the mandolins to compare in the future. Dawg and Chris Hillman seen to like there Red Diamonds and John Reishman loves he Heiden. These are Loar players and these mandolins are the others.

[TNT]

I would take a good look at BRW..I own a pair..and have been more then happy with them. I haven't played another mandolin with any better fit and finish the Ben's..

[Chris Biorkman]

I don't know that Tom Ellis would do an extension like that. I've seen his regular extension scooped but you don't see much variation in his work. But you'd have to ask him because you never know. I know that my Ellis has a more complex sound than my old Collings MF-5 did. The workmanship is perfect. I honestly don't ever see myself getting rid of it. It's that good.

I don't think you could go wrong with any of those choices though.

[fredfrank]

Tone Monster, not to nitpick, but do you ever read your post before you hit the "post" button?

[jim_n_virginia]

where's sgarrity!!! He's had all these mandolins and rejected them all and now is playing a Heiden. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Rick Schmidlin]

Tone Monster, not to nitpick, but do you ever read your post before you hit the "post" button?
not always http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mandoe]

I've played all of these except Heiden. My favorite is the Brentrup. The A and E strings just pop. I like a mando that is very responsive. When you hit a note you hear it immediately. Excellent fundamental with few overtones. All of the Brentrup mandos I have played do this. And he can dial in about any tone you want. NFI. I've never ownded a Brentup. But I'd like to one day.

[sgarrity]

Well Jim, I wouldn't say I've rejected any of them. But the bank account likes to be replenished on occassion, thus the sale of good mandolins. ;-)
I owned a Red Diamond (and have played several) and currently have a Heiden and a Brentrup in the stable. They are all excellent instruments. It really comes down to the tone that you are looking for and the $$$ you're willing to spend. When you get to that level of mandolin, it's more about preference than which one is better.

With the Heiden (Engleman/red maple) and the Brentrup (Italian Spruce/Bosnian Maple) there are more similarities than there are differences. The Heiden has more "pop" to it while the Brentrup has more big, lush overtones. You can play either mandolin in any musical situation and be 100% comfortable with the tone. Red Diamonds tend to lean a little more toward the mid-rangey Loar tone. Feel free to PM me with any specific questions. I'm always up for talkin' manalins!!!

[Ken Olmstead]

I have played 2 Heidens and one Red Diamond from your list. The Heidens were the finest instruments I have ever played. They had a tremendous sound that had balance and volume. The Red Diamond left me a little flat sorry to say. Nothing specific but it lacked a character of its own if that makes any sense. It rides in the Gibson camp and does a respectable job but the Heiden just soars to my ear. I think Brentup would have to talked to before I shelled out my dough. He has won me over with his posts and the photos and creativity I have seen is amazing. Brock would be the other builder on my short, short list for boutique builders. I played one of his mandolins that captivated me as much as the Heidens did. The other two that I played were good but did not quite make the grade. If I had to order one blind...Heiden based on my personal experience. If I had time and could travel (I would for such an important purchase,) I would sample each bulder's wares and drive them made with questions! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[goose 2]

Man Shaun I have played your new (Jim's old) Heiden and I truly lusted after it. It is superb in every way. I have a Red Diamond vintage A (crusher voicing) that I love just as well but have not played it next to Shaun's Heiden which I would like too very much. I think you are talking about two of the best builders there are and the quality of the instruments will be similar. For me it would come down to the feel of the neck and tone of the individual instrument. It would be a tough decision to commission either builder without playing their instruments. They are generally different tone wise to my ears. Both great. Also you should try your best to play recent instruments from both as I like the more recent work form each more than their earlier work. Finally I have not ever played a Brentrup and the only Ellis mandolins I have played were some from when he was building the first time but none of the recent ones. I hear they are both great. Looks to me that there are no bad choices on your list.

[wannabethile]

sadly, i havent played even one of those yet. but ive made my mind up that if i ever somehow have the money to have a mandolin custom made for me, that i would go through brentrup. just seeing his creations on here drives me crazy!! they all seem so darn perfect and he is such a friendly fellow too. good luck with your decision!!

[pjlama]

I'm a known Ellis fan so of course that would be my vote but since it's a long term project try and get your hands on an example of each. The only one I haven't tried from your bunch is the Heiden, I almost got one but that's a story for another day.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I've only ever been in the presence of one Heiden,the F-5 belonging to my late Canadian friend David Tinkoff, from Ottawa,Canada.He brought it over when he came to visit back in '94. I could only play a couple of two finger chords,but the Heiden came alive,it was so responsive. There are so many truly great luthiers out there,it would take some time to make my mind up,& only after i'd played one of their Mandolins. I know that David ordered his Heiden & bought it 'unseen'. It knocked him cold from day one - it was that good,
Saska

[cgwilsonjr]

I have luckily played Shaun's Red Diamond, Brentrup and Heiden. All were superb mandolins and it's all within the realm of personal preference. One thing I do rememeber thinking about the Heiden while I was playing it was that it gave huge rewards to moderate efforts. Another builder I would put in that lofty mix is Lawrence Smart. Chuck

[mandopete]

I'd get the one that sounded best.

[sgarrity]

Hey Goose--

The Heiden is a great mandolin. And since I have played your Red Diamond and my Heiden, I can say there are a lot more similarities than differences. When you get to this level of luthiery (sp??) it's really splitting hairs. Both are amazing sounding mandolins!! One of these days I'm going to make it out to Winfield so we can do a little mando tasting.

[Chris Biorkman]

There really are so many great choices out there that it's hard to go wrong with any of about twenty builders or so builders these days.

[mandolirius]

I haven't played any of these, except for Heidens - lots of Heidens, maybe a dozen or so, including the first one he ever built. I have no doubt that among these, and other top builders, there would be more similarities than differences. It makes me wonder how a person who wanted to order a custom-built mandolin would ever decide which one to go with. I'd probably choose Heiden, but that's mostly because I know Michael well and have played lots of his mandolins. But I've heard great things about these other builders as well.

How do people make up their minds, anyway? Has anyone had to choose a builder without benefit of playing his or her products beforehand? If so, how did you make your selection?

[goose 2]

Shaun,

Thats kinda weird that we played each others mandolins before we actually owned them ourselves!!! It will be the greatest Winfield yet and all the great pickers hanging out this year at Coyote Camp is mind boggling. Better go practice. . You really need to make it. .

[sgarrity]

Hahaha....that is a funny coincidence! I was going to come and stay at Coyote camp this year but I have to go to San Francisco at the end of September for some training and I just can't get away. I'll make it one of these years though!

[Timbofood]

I have been lucky to have had one of Billbows F5's for a "shake down cruise." If I were looking for something special, I would check in with him.
T

[sgarrity]

His work does look to be amazingly clean. if they sound as good as they look, I'm sure they are very special mandolins. That's another one I'd love to get to play someday!

[red7flag]

Anybody take that Ellis at Gruhn's for a ride and have any impressions? I will be going there tomorrow morning for a test drive. I am excited. I will post my impressions after I get home.
Tony

[red7flag]

Got Ellis F5 #119 from Gruhn. What an instrument. You can see pictures in the pictures section.
Tony

[Rick Schmidlin]

Didn't you have a Collings?

[red7flag]

Rick, That can be found in the classifieds. No this is not April Fools Day.
Tony

[Chris Biorkman]

So I take it you are buying the Ellis? Congrats and enjoy. I've had mine for 8 months now and it is sounding better and better every day.

[Ken Olmstead]

Tony - I would hate to see what you call a "short term" project! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Congradulations!

[red7flag]

I thought I would be commissioning one of those builders. I figured that most of their list would be 2 yrs so no hurry. Then found that the Ellis was right here at Gruhn's. I knew it would not last long here. I was sick as a dog this morning, but dragged my sorry butt to Nashville and so glad I did. Did not want to miss this chance.
Tony

Tony

[Ken Olmstead]

I understand completely, threw me for a bit of a loop is all! Enjoy!

[David O'Brien]

Do you folks have any idea what a new F model Heiden is priced at these days?

[Chris Biorkman]

They had a new one at Greg Boyd's a few months back for 15k.

[pjlama]

Here's a price list Michael sent me last year. It may have changed but here she is;
Mandolin Price List U.S.

Standard This model features seasoned figured Eastern maple back, neck and
sides and your choice of spruce top.
Clean and simple in design and ornamentation with a big sound and
comfortable custom neck. Single ivoroid bound body and unbound
headstock with ebony faceplate..
A 6200 F 10,500
Deluxe The same brilliant tone and player friendly feel with elegant ivoroid
single binding on headstock and fingerboard, top, and back. Features
Torch (a.k.a. Flowerpot) inlay. Nicely figured maple
back, sides and neck.
A 7000 F 12,500

Artist The classic look of the 1920’s with choice of Fern pattern (F-model)
or Torch Abalone peghead inlay and additional black and white
decorative bindings on the headstock, fingerboard, top and back..
Adirondack spruce top, gorgeous highly figured Red maple,
varnish finish and Waverly tuners.
A 8000 F 14,500

Calton Case included with instrument

Options Gold-plated hardware 50 extra
Pickguard 175
Small pickguard 125
Monteleone style tailpiece 75
Allen TR 95
Bill James tailpiece (new) 140
Waverly tuners 475
E-mail-info@heideninstruments.com

[pjlama]

And you guys thought I didn't know anything http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[CES]

I was gonna say, "Rock, paper, scissors" in a final elimination of builders until you were left with two, then arrange to play those and pick, but I guess you found what you needed in the Ellis!

Based on my level of expertise and experience (little experience, no expertise http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif) I'd have to say that it would be easier for me to chose than those of you who really know what sound you're looking for...in my case they'd all sound so much better and be made so well that I'd consider it a no-lose situation and just pick one in my price point! Yes, I care a lot about tone and my sound, but I think my Kentucky sounds OK, and any of these would blow it away in competent hands!

[sgarrity]

That pricing is pretty much in line with what I know. He also makes his Heritage model with select old wood that carries an additional premium.

[Jeff Chu]

Hey PJ,

How does the Giacomel compare to these instruments? seems to be in the same price range.

[fatt-dad]

Go find a Stiver. That's a good mandolin! (Well, so are the others. . . )

f-d

[Sadee]

Fatt-dad - I was at Winfield and saw a guy playing a Stiver at the Flood Stage at Winfield Lake. I loved the sound and went and spoke to him about his mando after their band was through playing. It was an '80s model and defineatley played in. Can you share more info on Stivers?