View Full Version : Hutto copy
flatwound
Jun-22-2008, 10:44pm
Who makes the best hutto sound copy?
Does a Collings MF have the wood sound?
prof_87
May-31-2010, 12:48pm
There is no copying the Hutto sound. Johnny had his own way of making the sound to fit the buyers desire. None of them are exactly alike. A Hutto is a Hutto is a Hutto.
Dr. John Ashburn
Dahlonega, GA
barry k
May-31-2010, 1:56pm
Flatwound...your showing a Buckeye mandolin on your signature, form the ones Ive heard and played that should be close if not superior to a Hutto, I dont know what Hutto sound is really , unless your describing a woody pop type chop? Your Buckeye has that for sure.
Chuck Naill
May-31-2010, 3:05pm
Wasn't a Hutto a copy of a Gibson F5? If not, how were the two product dissimilar?
barry k
May-31-2010, 3:56pm
Chuck , yes John did build his interpretation of the F5 as well as many others, such as Ibanez, Alvarez, Savannah ,Michael Kelly etc but I wouldnt compare those to a Hutto. The Gibsons of Hutto's time period were typically not as bassy as Johns mandos. He had also put the Gibson name on the headstock on many of his ealier creations. He also did some experimental stuff inside the mandolins that I cant reveal, I promised never to devulge.
GrassGraber
May-31-2010, 4:31pm
Copperhead mandolins are the closest to a Hutto you will ever hear.They are not copys they just have that pop and tone that most Huttos are know for.If anyone's going to Bean Blossom and wants to try a Copperhead mandolin or hear one I'll be playing one with Karl Shifflett.
barry k
May-31-2010, 4:49pm
Did you retire the Hutto or just endorsing Copperhead now?
Flatwound...your showing a Buckeye mandolin on your signature, form the ones Ive heard and played that should be close if not superior to a Hutto, I dont know what Hutto sound is really , unless your describing a woody pop type chop? Your Buckeye has that for sure.
I got to compare my Buckeye's to a Hutto and was really surprise just how close they all were in tone. My band is playing a festival in early August with Lost and Found and I am hoping to do a side by side with Scottss Hutto.
Willie Poole
May-31-2010, 5:46pm
I have a Flatiron Festival model that Dempsy Young played a few years ago at a festival and it sounds a lot like his Hutto, he said he was amazed how close they were...Thats the reason I bought it, I had four mandolins and sue didn`t need another one.....I have never heard another Flatiron Festival that sounds as good as this one....Willie
i have to throw in my vote for the copperhead as well. I have 2 friends both used to own huttos, each played a different copperhead first things out of their mouth, " man that reminds me of my hutto" the copperheads have a deep chop while maintaining a really good balanced, with plenty of mids and trebles. I feel a lot of modern builders are lacking the cut that the great old mandolins, had. jason has blended that sound really well. when i hear dempsey young i hear that blend.
larry sparks's mandolin player has a great hutto that i've not heard a lot of people talk about
Chuck Naill
May-31-2010, 10:27pm
Chuck , yes John did build his interpretation of the F5 as well as many others, such as Ibanez, Alvarez, Savannah ,Michael Kelly etc but I wouldnt compare those to a Hutto. The Gibsons of Hutto's time period were typically not as bassy as Johns mandos. He had also put the Gibson name on the headstock on many of his ealier creations. He also did some experimental stuff inside the mandolins that I cant reveal, I promised never to devulge.
Barry,
I remember in the '80's when players were discovering what Mr. Hutto was doing. I had not heard about the bassy nature. That makes sense for BG use.
I friend told me Mr Hutto was color blind and some of his mandolins were stained green.
barry k
May-31-2010, 10:45pm
I dont know if he was color blind, I kinda doubt it. He wasnt just a one trick pony, in addtion to his ability to build mandolins, he was a terrific bluegrass picker and tenor singer that would rival Bill himself. Also , he was a genius with electricity, in particular, electric motors and related stuff. That would throw out the color blind theory. I know for a fact that he hated to apply finish, he just wasnt any good at it. He didnt mind if his customers found someone other then him to do it.
GrassGraber
May-31-2010, 11:55pm
I never owned a hutto barry but have played several through out the years.I hear some hutto sound in your mandolins as well.
Chuck Naill
Jun-01-2010, 5:56am
I dont know if he was color blind, I kinda doubt it. He wasnt just a one trick pony, in addtion to his ability to build mandolins, he was a terrific bluegrass picker and tenor singer that would rival Bill himself. Also , he was a genius with electricity, in particular, electric motors and related stuff. That would throw out the color blind theory. I know for a fact that he hated to apply finish, he just wasnt any good at it. He didnt mind if his customers found someone other then him to do it.
Perhaps he wasn't, apparently some came out green. I have an acquaintance who did some finish work for a customer.
This past weekend, a buddy brought me into his camper and showed me a box, inside were a neck, fingerboard, top, back and sides, all done by Hutto. All that has to be done is the assembly. Pretty cool.
re simmers
Jun-01-2010, 7:32am
I don't know if he was color blind, but it is possible. I know a Master Electrician/Electrical Engineer who is completely color blind. He entered Univerity of MD in about 1964 and they told him 'no way, you are color blind.' He talked them into letting him in. He memorized all the codes on the wires. So it is possible to be color blind and work with electricity.
I've never heard a Copperhead, but up until now I haven't heard anything close to Dempsey Young's Hutto.................part of the sound was Dempsey.
Bob
GrassGraber
Jun-01-2010, 2:46pm
You guys should try a Copperhead if see one they are really great mandolins and I have played about every mandolin around.Jason is on a fast track to becoming one of the best and he's a great guy to deal with.
barry k
Jun-01-2010, 6:39pm
A mandolin is ALWAYS the best ( at the time) when the recommendation comes from a compensated endorser.
As a friend of Jason's and a guy who plays his mandolins I feel obligated to step in here. I know jason does not give away mandolins and he doesnt pay anyone to play them, wich is my definition of an "endorser". Grass grabber bought a demo model copperhead and is helping Jason get his name out. Some builders have the luxury of having the time and money to go to all the festivals and ibma gatherings and have thousands of people play their mandolins. If they cant do that, then word of mouth is their next option.
Jason builds some of the best mandolins out there, I havent played or heard a comparable mandolin anywhere near the price range. He is one of the nicest guys you could possibly meet and would hate to know that there as any kind of negativity being attached to his name, so if this message is found offensive I appologize
GrassGraber
Jun-01-2010, 8:31pm
I'm not being compensated ,I just know great mandolin when I play one.Jason lives in Ohio and his mandolin's are as good as buckeye's,red diamond.He just needs to get his name out there.
jim_n_virginia
Jun-01-2010, 10:21pm
I have two friends with Hutto mandolins and both to me have that old Gibson bluegrass sound. Deep chop and low tone not bright at all like Gilchrist or Collins. I've been MASing for an old Hutto for a long time! LOL!
Never heard of a Copperhead but it IS surprising (or maybe not) that whenever someone has a new mandolin it is always the best they have ever heard and the builder is the next up and coming star! LOL!
Time will tell is all I say... :mandosmiley:
adizz
Jun-01-2010, 10:45pm
jim i know what youre saying but i have to say i have been playing jasons mandolins since #1. I helped talk him into doing the traditional F-5 model. I think he's built 25 or 30 mandolins all have been great the copperheads are really off the charts. I have been lucky enough to play many of the top notch mandolins, master models, heiden , gilchrist, red diamond, collings varnished, duff etc the copperheads have been better than most, as good as a few. And aside from danny roberts loar none have been much better.
everyone who's ever put steel to wood was a relative unknown at one point. I would encourage anyone who's interested , to contact Jason talk to him for 5 minutes ask him about his varnish or his finish process, and listen to the passion he has about his craft. When you put that kind of heart into building anything it's bound to be great.
adizz
Jun-01-2010, 10:50pm
I want to appologize for getting a little off topic these past couple of posts, good luck with the quest for the hutto tone what ever mandolin you decide to check out.
GrassGraber
Jun-01-2010, 10:53pm
I have a copperhead for a reason and not because it is my new one.Just throwin my 2 cents in about the topic which was what mandolins out there that most sounds like a hutto.
Barry's point is valid...Kobe used to swear by Adidas until Nike offered bigger bux...Jordan was a Converse guy until Nike paid him to wear their shoes and help design his own line...
At the same time, there's nothing wrong with a satisfied customer voicing their opinion. I'm very happy with my new Silver Angel econo model. It's not perfect, but has much better playability and tone than the other mandolins I own, with the possible exception of my Flatty pancake, which is too different to compare anyway. As I bought my mando used and have never talked with or even emailed Ken, he's given me absolutely nothing to say these comments. My other mandos are admittedly inexpensive, and so, yes, the SA is the best F-holed mandolin I've owned so far. Knowing MAS as I do, I doubt it will be the best mandolin I ever own, hence the rationale for Jim's comments...we're all trying to move up the mandolin food chain, whether we want to admit it or not.
I've not played a Copperhead nor a Hutto, and thus can't comment on the original question. But, the truth is likely somewhere between the opposing views above...and remember, at some point Dude and Gil were the "next best thing." Of course, so was (and some would argue still is) Wiens...you never know how these things will play out in the long run.
Deep chop and low tone not bright at all like Gilchrist
Hmmm...the 3 Gilchrist mandolins I have owned/own don't really fall into this characterization.
re simmers
Jun-02-2010, 7:10am
Alan,
I've heard one Gilchrist, Ron Pennington's. I remember it as very deep, woody, loud, and a deep chop that fills a room. NOT "bright" to my ears.
Bob
Yes Bob, that is my feeling. Maybe I was reading/quoting incorrectly.
It's so dang hard to write about sound. Kind of like something else, you know it when you see it.
GrassGraber
Jun-02-2010, 9:57am
Here are some of the Gil's that I have played.Steffy's it was real deep to deep for me anyway.McCoury's it's great I love the balance on it.Aubrey Haynie's awsome mando and brighter than the other 2 mentioned but I think it is tone bar instead of X-braced.David Long's is bright to be x-braced.
mtucker
Jun-02-2010, 10:54am
Collings is a nice mandolin, I owned an F5 but not at all like my Gil which is loud/clear/even not overly complex, not ringey and certainly not bright sounding ... fact, like Compton described ... kinda flat.
GrassGraber
Jun-02-2010, 1:23pm
Never played a Gil that sounded flat,they all been pretty lively to me.
mtucker
Jun-02-2010, 3:22pm
Never played a Gil that sounded flat,they all been pretty lively to me.
Yes, of course you are correct! That was my feeble attempt at being dry... I'm not much on inaccurate comparisons...now, back to special programming.
Chuck Naill
Jun-02-2010, 3:33pm
I have enjoyed reading this thread because it shows the importance of playing before buying. It also says that because the mandolin is popular and/or in those upper price ranges that it might not be what everyone needs or even wants tonally. I appreciate everyone's perspective.
I always knew that Huttos were popular, but not why they were popular. I was just getting into the mandolin when the Huttos became popular in the '80's.
jim_n_virginia
Jun-03-2010, 4:17am
Hmmm...the 3 Gilchrist mandolins I have owned/own don't really fall into this characterization.
maybe it was just the ones I have heard and played! LOL! Not like I had my hands on very many of them. The few I played (including Compton's) were very bright sounding compared to the last two Ferns I have owned.
Bernie Daniel
Jun-03-2010, 6:55am
I want to appologize for getting a little off topic these past couple of posts, good luck with the quest for the hutto tone what ever mandolin you decide to check out.
Also a bit off topic - but that was a great video you put up on YouTube of the Copperhead mandolin IMO.
Thanks that was one f jasons earlier copperheads maybe 4th. It was pretty much brand new when I did that. I am always amazed at the sound of his mandolins whhen theyre new. He did a distressed model that sounded ancient right out of the box, it was heavilly distressed.
Thanks again for the great compliment I had someone post a comment on there saying I shouldn't put up such a bad video and it was a bad representation of his mandolins. Everyone has an opinion :)
Life Is Good
Jun-03-2010, 7:34pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KtaY3IqsMs, Jesse McReynolds palying a Hutto. I agree with the person who said that Hutto's are unique and wonderful. I also agree with Barry that the OP did well choosing a Buckeye. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HFkm6MuQEc, Joe Clark with Buckeye and Scott Napier with Hutto side by side. I prefer the Buckeye tone. I talked with Pete about building one for me and he was adamant that he preferred Englemann or European Spruce to the bright sound produced with Red Spruce. At the time I was adamant about using Red Spruce but as time goes on and I play and listen to more mandolins I agree with Pete. I always found Sitka to be a dark sounding wood with nice crispness(woody) but not as rich in tone as Englemann or Red.
pick_head
Jun-03-2010, 10:59pm
Actually thats Joe playing my Hutto, and Im playing his Buckeye, My truss rod cover is black. Scott N.
Life Is Good
Jun-04-2010, 12:28am
I stand corrected! Thanks for setting me straight on that Scott. You would be an ideal person to share your opinion since you have a lot of insight on this. Obviously there is no exact replacement for a Hutto, which seem to be great for both jazz and bluegrass. It was probably within the last year or so that I first heard Lost and Found and I am a big fan. Whichever mandolin you guys are playing you sound great! Both great mandolins and both great players. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdzFvXPdryk, I guess it was this video with you guys playing your own mandolins. You pulled a switch and got my head spinning between the two videos. No wonder they were hard to tell apart!
pick_head
Jun-04-2010, 2:15am
Thanks Life is good,
It's all about the right player finding the right instrument. Theres so many good builders out there it's hard to start naming names. I got my Hutto 12 years ago and have never looked back, No more looken- I have had a few "Upgrades" Waverly tuners, compound radius fretboard, Big frets, mother of pearl nut, all by Don Macrostie. I have a Bill James tailpiece on order. I'm always trying to find ways to improve my mandolin.. It really boils down to what's best for you, what makes you want to keep playing and playing and playing...
DannyB
Jun-04-2010, 8:46am
I'm curious as to the price range of the Copperhead? I also know where there was a hutto for sale but not in the mainstream (nobody really knows about it) It was one of the last ones John made, and in fact it never got past the white stage and was finished by someone else. It was residing in Mansfield, Ohio last I heard.
Anyone interested in priceing feel free to pm me. danny i will send you a message. Jason has one in process I will try to get him to post some pics in the "in progress" thread. I think he is going to go with the copperhead design with some beautiful flamed maple bindind in lieu of the traditional ivoroid he uses.
DannyB
Jun-04-2010, 9:23am
addizz, Thanks
Mandoe
Jun-04-2010, 9:53am
I have played a few Hutto mandos over the years. To me they have a deep/robust sound. Dearstone mandos are the closest I have played to the sound of a Hutto. Haven't played a Copperhead yet but would like to!
barry k
Jun-04-2010, 9:55am
DannyB, do you know what serial number that Hutto is? Anyone know the exact number of mandolins that John built?
DannyB
Jun-04-2010, 10:06am
Barry, I don't but with a little prying I could find out. I don't get over that way but I have a friend who is fairly close to the gentleman who owns it. Also there is a member of the cafe who it use to belong to, he traded it and a few other instruments for the hutto this guy use to have. I could have bought it a year and a half ago for $6,500 and didn't bite, at this point I heard it has been stripped down for a different finish. I'll do a little investigating and see what I can come up with.
Willie Poole
Jun-04-2010, 12:24pm
As far as Huttos secrets inside his mandolins: I know a fellow that has one and his son has one and they sound as different as night and day...He told me some of the things that John did as trial and error and was always looking to improve the sound of his mandolins...Some trials were good while others weren`t...I won`t devulge the little secrets that were told to me but some of them are pretty common things that we all do but maybe not to the extent that Hutto did...Great thread and some good reading and info about some great mandolins, thanks....Willie
DannyB
Jun-04-2010, 1:00pm
Just found out that Hutto went back to the cafe member who had it before. I did see one of them was for sale at one point but not sure anymore. He use to have a music store in Marion and if you read this Keith maybe you can shed some light on where they stand.
mtucker
Jun-04-2010, 3:00pm
http://www.huttomandolin.zoomshare.com/
Life Is Good
Jun-04-2010, 3:29pm
I have owned a number of madolins and one of the features that I liked on some F5's is when builders carved a groove on the inside of the scroll ridge. It seemed to help sound waves go into the scroll as far as I could tell.
banjer23
Jun-04-2010, 4:30pm
59300I just found this pic of John presenting Dempsey with his SECOND Hutto,yes,,he did have two Huttos.
Great photo, thanks for sharing.
adizz
Jun-05-2010, 12:22pm
Does anyone know what happened to the 2nd hutto dempsey had? I know his wife had his main one for sale, I wonder if he sold earlier or if it's still around. I talked to larry sparks's mandolin player a bean blossom last year, he said when he went to john to order his hutto he handed him larrys old d28 and said make something that will match this. If you ever hear larry live you'll notice how that mandolin compliments that guitar perfectly in its tone. I believe he said he had to have someone else finish that mandolin and maybe even do the inlay work, because john would send his mandolins out in the white and let folks play them for awhile to make sure they were happy, I guess john passed before he ever sent the mandolin back
Russ Jordan
Jun-05-2010, 1:02pm
I think that 2nd Hutto got damaged pretty bad. Seems like General Mills said someone was restoring it.
Maybe Scott Napier will confirm who might be doing the work.
Chuck Naill
Jun-05-2010, 5:31pm
I have two friends with Hutto mandolins and both to me have that old Gibson bluegrass sound. Deep chop and low tone not bright at all like Gilchrist or Collins. I've been MASing for an old Hutto for a long time! LOL!
Never heard of a Copperhead but it IS surprising (or maybe not) that whenever someone has a new mandolin it is always the best they have ever heard and the builder is the next up and coming star! LOL!
Time will tell is all I say... :mandosmiley:
Jim,
How wise and true. My experience has been that I am the most fortunate picker in the world. Every instrument I own is exceptional and the better I get as a player the luckier I get in finding good instruments.
pick_head
Jun-06-2010, 10:01pm
Hello Russ, Long story short- Hutto built the mandolin for Dempsey, Dempsey wanted some changes made so Hutto removed the top, A few years pass, Thats around the time Dempsey started endorsing Dearstones. John wasn't to happy about that so he called Dempsey up, told him his mandolin was ready, Dempsey goes to get it, Hutto gives it to him in a pillow case in parts. "true story" Dempsey never played that mandolin that Im aware of. Oddly enuff Ray Dearstone recently put a top on it. It's got "The Dempsey" on the headstock and a wider, flat fingerboard like his old one. The back and sides was finished by Hutto, it has his label dated 1990. It's a really good mandolin, I just played it on a show. It's a little brighter than most Hutto's but it's really well balanced. Dempsey son has the mandolin.
I think that 2nd Hutto got damaged pretty bad. Seems like General Mills said someone was restoring it.
Maybe Scott Napier will confirm who might be doing the work.
paulomandolino
Jul-16-2013, 10:16pm
Here is a Weber compared to a Hutto: http://youtu.be/Vi2A-QvIRqE
paulomandolino
Jul-16-2013, 10:35pm
John was a character. I thought his "The Lilly" was the best sounding mandolin that I ever heard. The owner refused my offer so I ordered a new one from John just as he was discovered in 1994. It took over two years to complete my new 3 pointer, meanwhile I was offered "the Lilly" and immediately bought it. It was pretty worn so I sent it to John to restore and put "the Hutto" on the headstock.
I later met Everett Lilly who was surprised to see the 3 pointer that he ordered in the 1970s. He finally got a chance to play it on stage. I probably should not have had John restore it. It is nice to have two Huttos that will blow the doors of any other.