Ebay changing feedback policy

[MikeEdgerton]

A big change announced in eBay Feedback policy. I'm going to guess this will drive a few sellers elsewhere.

eBay changes Feedback Policy (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2008/02/06/janis.uk.ebay.big.changes.cnn)

[Mark Walker]

Interesting. And I was just getting used to the new 'enhanced' feedback feature - which I thought was great for both buyers and sellers... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[JeffD]

Fair or unfair, its more like the real world, where keeping a customer happy is the job of the seller. If I am unhappy with my lunch at the diner, whether I am justified in my unhappines or not, I get to complain and warn others. The diner does not get to tell everyone I am a crackpot, even if I really am.

[Jim Broyles]

Sure they do, they just won't do it in front of you.

[Stephen Perry]

Problem is that many (all too many) buyers fail to read and/or follow the conditions of sale, post negative feedback quickly when there's no fault on the seller's part (e.g., shipping damage), fail to pay, return damaged items, and otherwise act bizarrely. I'm about to have my attorneys send a demand for feedback removal letter to a buyer who posted negative feedback for "not as described" when that buyer later agreed he was looking at shipping damage. I really got screwed in that deal through no fault of my own. The buyer filed a PayPal claim while I filed a damage claim with FedEx. Both took over a month to work out, but the buyer posted negative feedback fast.

[MikeEdgerton]

I know several people that stopped selling on eBay due to problems with people holding them hostage with feedback ransom. In my mind that will become rampant.

[JGWoods]

I have sold a lot on ebay and had no negative feedback, but I can see it coming more easily under the new arrangement. If one bad marks negates 40 good ones maybe I'll just enroll as a first time seller each time I want to sell something.

[JeffD]

Sure they do, they just won't do it in front of you.
You mean, they don't do it in front of me.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[arbarnhart]

A big change announced in eBay Feedback policy. I'm going to guess this will drive a few sellers elsewhere.
I don't know. Where else can you go?

[MikeEdgerton]

Craig's list for one I'd guess.

[lovethemf5s]

eBay is again trying something new to boost their stock value. CEO Meg Whitman is retiring and the president is doing the same. They are trying to copy the Amazon model where only buyers give sellers feedback. After all, eBay has the sellers over a barrel and they can never have too many buyers.

[MikeEdgerton]

The difference is that Amazon's biggest piece of the business is the items they sell themselves (even through vendors). eBay doesn't have that. They need a seller community as much as they need a buyer community. They are assuming they have the buyers locked in and they probably do for the most part.

[lovethemf5s]

Give eBay time to make the changes. Many sellers who post messages at the community forum believe it's only a matter of time before eBay starts selling products directly.

[John Hill]

I think in the end two things will happen: ebay will retract this policy or there will be a sharp decline in sales due to sellers going to other online auction sites. I sell there (odds & ends, no big volume by any stretch) and someone tried to scam me and if there was no way to post a negative comment to warn others then it's chaos. I and find it a step in the wrong direction by ebay.

[arbarnhart]

Craig's list for one I'd guess.
Well, kinda. I am in an area with a very active CraigsList, but I have had far more success on eBay. I am not defending what they are doing, just really wondering where else I would be able to sell niche stuff reasonably quickly. BTW, I have perfect feedback and I have made a couple of mistakes (things that were clearly my fault) as a seller. I worked with the buyers and figured out what was reasonable and then gave them positive feedback as a show of good faith and they did the same for me once it was resolved. I have had a few bad experiences with sellers. They all held my feedback hostage to keep me from giving them bad FB. I hated that, so I made up my mind not to do it when I sold things.

[jim_n_virginia]

I've sold and bought a lot on eBay and I now have perfect feedback but in the beginning I got one nuetral from a person who thought they waited too long for their item. I mailed it the very next day after I got payment and had proof. I had given them good feedback and they hit me with the neutral.

After that I NEVER again gave feedback until the other person left theirs first. A few of my deals we each never left any feedback good or bad.

The feedback system works OK but it has it's flaws. I am glad eBay is trying different thing to try and see what happens. I am sure if this way doesn't work or they start losing money (from the fees) I am sure they will try something else.

And craiglist doesn't have a fraction of the potential customer base the eBay has. With craigslist you mostly sell locally. You might as well list it in the newspaper.

[Bill Snyder]

I have made perhaps 100 purchases on ebay and sold a few items. My feedback score is 54. All positive. The first year or two I purchased from ebay less than half of the sellers left me feedback. Now it seems almost all do. I have had a few state in their emails that they will leave me a positive feedback just as soon as I leave them a positive feedback. This from sellers with thousands of feedback ratings.

[woodwizard]

I've also bought and sold alot on eBay and have 100 percent positives that I was really proud of. I thought the feedback thing was a great thing. Then came a couple of deals as me being a buyer having a deal that just really stunk. Bad communication ...no follow thru and just everything about it bad but I knew if I gave them a negative it would be returned unfairly so I did nothing. I don't think the new change will help any.

[MikeEdgerton]

Feedback ransom wasn't limited to sellers holding it over a buyer, it went the other way as well. I stopped leaving feedback as a seller after three different people held me ransom. I simply paid and swore I would never do it again. In each case I attempted to resolve their problems (one was buyers remorse, two were fictitious in my mind) and I paid money out. That's actually the reason I simply stopped selling on eBay. If I was selling a commodity like glass beads or boxes of diapers then I might sell under these circumstances. I wouldn't sell used musical instruments.

[Sheryl McDonald]

I've also bought and sold alot on eBay and have 100 percent positives that I was really proud of. I thought the feedback thing was a great thing. Then came a couple of deals as me being a buyer having a deal that just really stunk. Bad communication ...no follow thru and just everything about it bad but I knew if I gave them a negative it would be returned unfairly so I did nothing. I don't think the new change will help any.
I've had some less than stellar buys from ebay and I too have either declined a comment, or stated: "the package arrived" to avoid a comments spat with a seller. In one situation, I had to appeal to paypal to get my $ back from a buy, as the seller didn't ship the product in the picture, and refused to reply to email.
Of course, on ebay, who's to know what really is the truth? A lot of what is sold is inaccurately described.

[MikeEdgerton]

More developments in this story can be found here (http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/07/smbusiness/ebay_boycott.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2008021009). It appears some sellers aren't taking this sitting down.

[Jim Broyles]

Mike, I have received 6 feedbacks from sellers since your initial post in this thread. Just got one today.

[MikeEdgerton]

Hmmm, they must not have implemented it yet. I wonder why that isn't all over the news? I'll have to go over and check my messages on eBay.

[MikeEdgerton]

Well, after reading this page at eBay (http://pages.ebay.com/sell/update08/overview/) I can say I'm a bit confused by the news articles on the subject. It appears sellers can still leave feedback for buyers, as long as it's positive. Now I'm really amazed.

[Jim Broyles]

Well, after reading this page at eBay (http://pages.ebay.com/sell/update08/overview/) I can say I'm a bit confused by the news articles on the subject. It appears sellers can still leave feedback for buyers, as long as it's positive. Now I'm really amazed.
Well, I didn't read that any better than you did, Mike. It seems that the new feedback policy is "coming soon," and since I thought it was in effect already, I left a neutral for a seller who did not accurately describe an item, and got a retaliatory negative, my first ever non-positive. It's your fault as far as I'm concerned. My record is forever blemished all because of you! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

I am so sorry. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Jim Broyles]

Nah, I got her to agree to withdraw the fb's. I still think it's pretty crummy to give a neg for a neutral. I bought a sweatshirt which was only listed as Large, but it's a "Relaxed Fit" which makes it way too baggy looking at the bottom. So I emailed her and she ignored me, so I gave her a neut, and got a neg. But it's all good now. Back up to 352, 100% Positive.

P.S. - I was kidding, you know.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm still sorry http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Folkmusician.com]

I may be in the minority here, but I believe this new policy is good for the sellers, assuming the sellers have good customer service. Especially those dealing in musical instruments. There are far too many dishonest sellers, misrepresenting the instruments. It is quite obvious to anyone that knows instruments, yet they manage to sell thousands to unsuspecting buyers, partly due to the feedback system. These dealers have very few negatives because buyers are scared of getting a negative (which really makes little sense). Yes this new policy will mean that even the best sellers will get the occasional negative, but the bad sellers will rack them up and the whole system will balance out. It will come to be expected that the better sellers on eBay will have a few negatives. No big deal.

The current feedback system represents this fairly tail land where everyone is 100% SUPER DUPER HAPPY, BEST SELLER ON EBAY, A+++++. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

I hope it works out for you. It was enough to just stop me from selling (at least used musical instruments). I like a level playing field. This won't be if and when it's ever implemented.

[Jim Broyles]

Well, it looks like they started it today. My feedback score went from 368 to 387 overnight, due, I suppose, to adding in the repeat customer feedbacks. The next time I went to leave a feedback, the box informing me of the new policy appeared. We'll see if this works out. Seems like the buyers have the upper hand when it comes to leveraging the FB.

[Pete Braccio]

I guess I must be in the minority here, but I think this is about time.

I bought a guitar from a "power seller" on eBay. I payed for this piece minutes after the auction ended. It arrived rusted, with the bridge unattached, and one of the bridge pins sheared off. I contacted the seller immediatly and he agreed to refund my full purchase price and shipping in both directions. He only refunded the purchase price (and that was a week after he received the guitar back) and then stopped answering emails.

I left him a negative feedback and within minutes he retaliated with a negative on me and sent me an email saying that he would only lift my negative if I lifted his. eBay basically told me tough boggers, that was my problem and it was not anything that they were gonna work on.

So, you sellers here have some of your own to thank for this policy.

Pete

P.S. The seller from my story sold this guitar a couple of times more and did the same email blackmail with a few other people. At least three emailed me directly.

[Jim Broyles]

Well, "we sellers" are sometimes just individuals who are trying to get rid of some stuff and pick up some extra cash from time to time. I Don't do eBay as a business, although I wouldn't have been averse to it, but now the feedback system has really un-leveled the playing field as far as I'm concerned. Buyers, of which I am more often one than a seller, are now free to use the system to blackmail sellers, but sellers can only leave positive or zero feedback. Doesn't seem fair to me.

[MikeEdgerton]

As a former Power Seller I can say that for every bad seller there are many more bad buyers. People that might mean well when they bid but then suffer buyer's remorse and suddenly feel the need to find something wrong so they can force a return. People that intentionally buy and then use feedback ransom to try and get money off the purchase price. Hey, why not ask, it doesn't hurt to ask right? Early on I left feedback for buyers as soon as they paid. I had to change that policy after a rash of holdups that cost me money. I went out of my way to describe things as they were, warts and all. I always had as many pictures from as many angles as possible. I'm with Jim, it's not a level playing field, there's no sense in participating anymore.

[Keith Erickson]

...yet another reason why I won't shop e-bay. Take a look at this Judge Judy episode. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJDK6ctRjqw)

[Ken Olmstead]

I had an experience with a whack job that bought from me and used paypal like a master. The only thing that kept him in check was the feed back system. It is fabulous for buyers but like Mike, my selling on ebay will be a lot less. The sellers pay all the fees (you can argue that it is built into the sellers price but most things only sell for what a local buyer would pay a local seller) and now I feel like they have kinda kicked us in the.... Craig's list will be my first choice for selling (second to the cafe of course for mando items) unless it is something that will require national exposure.

[Pete Braccio]

I'm just saying that the kicking is going on in both directions. To say that this is a seller issue or a buyer issue is not correct. It is actually a lack of leadership issue on eBay. They should strike obviously retaliatory comments by either side in a dispute (per their own policies).

HOWEVER, just read the new policies and they are nuts. It doesn't look like anyone is going to be protected by them.

Pete

[Jim Broyles]

I'm just saying that the kicking is going on in both directions. To say that this is a seller issue or a buyer issue is not correct. It is actually a lack of leadership issue on eBay. They should strike obviously retaliatory comments by either side in a dispute (per their own policies).

HOWEVER, just read the new policies and they are nuts. It doesn't look like anyone is going to be protected by them.

Pete
While it is true that both sellers and buyers have misused the feedback system, the only ones who can be hurt by it now are sellers. This is inarguable. A#seller may now leave only a positive feedback or none at all. I suppose a seller can still respond to a negative received but the negative will still be #on his record.

[TomTyrrell]

Looking at the active listing statistics leads me to think a lot of people are looking for other places to sell their items. In 11 years on ebay I had one problem with a seller, dozens of problems with buyers.

I don't know who at ebay corporate decided this was a good change. When their income starts dropping they will know what a fiasco this is.

[MikeEdgerton]

This popped up today when I signed onto eBay.

[Jim Broyles]

I didn't have that pop up. What are the "seller protections & more details?"

[MikeEdgerton]

You know Jim, I didn't even look.

[Caleb]

I don't really mind the changes. I've made lots of money on eBay selling junk that would otherwise be in my way around the house. EBay has been pretty good to me. I have found over the years that, for the most part, folks are pretty good on eBay and are pretty honest. I like eBay.

[Dave Harbst]

IMHO--The best place I've found to buy and sell mandolins is right here on the Mandolin Cafe. In over ten years and at least 25 or 30 transactions, I have found neary all sellers to be very fair and honest. I'm not a dealer, just a victim of MAS, enabled by the steady stream of great mandolins for sale on thr Cafe classifieds. Long live Mandolin Cafe!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Jim Broyles]

Well, I just went to leave my first feedback as a buyer since the change. The screen had a box telling me that I could not leave a negative feedback for "this Powerseller" within 7 days of the transaction and telling me to communicate with the seller if I had a problem. This was before I had indicated ANY kind of feedback- right when I went to the page. I don't know if it was for that seller or one like him who had reached a certain level or if it#is for all Powersellers, although I did not get that same message when I went to leave feedback for a different Powerseller, so I am not sure what the deal is. Anyway, it looks like at least some sellers have a level of protection against negative feedback given in the heat of the moment.

[MikeEdgerton]

But I'm assuming you can leave negative for the powerseller after 7 days. That does slow down the process but it doesn't even the playing field.

If I was selling now days I'd be tempted to look at the feedback left by every bidder and if they had a history of leaving negative I'd just cancel the bid and put them on the banned list. Heck of a system.

[527]

IMHO--The best place I've found to buy and sell mandolins is right here on the Mandolin Cafe. In over ten years and at least 25 or 30 transactions, I have found neary all sellers to be very fair and honest. I'm not a dealer, just a victim of MAS, enabled by the steady stream of great mandolins for sale on thr Cafe classifieds. Long live Mandolin Cafe!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
I've had some bad experiences.

Got a mando with an undisclosed neck reset off the classifieds, seller was completely unprofessional.

Had the same exact thing happen with a well known dealer in Richmond, Virginia.

As a buyer you need to be very careful!

[ApK]

The new changes in feedback and rates as well definitely make it seem like they are trying to favor high-volume professional sellers and discourage low volume occasional individual sellers like me. They apparently want to become more mall and less swap meet, and that's a shame.
Craig's list is ok for somethings, especially large local pickup items, but doesn't have NEARLY the reach of eBay if you want to unload your spare VHS copy of "Circle of Iron" or some other obscure item that may be valuable to one other person across the country. Nor does it have any of the protections of eBay. It's just a good classified ad site.

[MikeEdgerton]

You're right Andy, most of the high volume sellers don't really care if they have negative feedback. I cringe sometimes when I read the feedback records of some of these sellers. I remember a guy selling a thousand items a month with 30 or 40 negative feedbacks a month. That is like rolling the dice.

[Jim Broyles]

Well, FWIW, I like eBay. I am not a high volume seller nor a high volume buyer. I have 390 rating, 73 as a seller. I have never been ripped or scammed on eBay. I have never had a buyer leave or threaten to leave a negative. The two most expensive things I sold on eBay were an amplifier for $700.00 and a mandolin for the same amount. The mandolin did go to a Cafe member, but through eBay. The only slightly bad experience was the one I described upthread. I will probably not stop using eBay to buy or to sell, but I will be careful to list all issues with items for sale, ship them the way I say I'm going to and in a timely manner. I hope my sellers do the same.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I think it's good. I have only had 3 negative feedbacks and they were all tit-for-tat from sellers who had "overstated" or misrepresented their goods. I gave them negative feedback and received the same back - usually with "personal" comments. All 3 no longer sell under those names but I still show 3 negative feedbacks. The Seller should ALWAYS pander to the customer. I do when I sell.....