Flatiron festival made in china

[Riccardo]

I recently discovered that Gibson has been marketing a Flatiron Festival made in China. In Epiphone fashion, some of these mandolins got a "USED" stamp on the back of the headstock and ended up on eBay with ~ 50% off of the list price.

I currently own a Gibson A9 and, honestly, I don't see a point in buying a chinese mandolin, but I am tempted nonetheless...I can't afford a Gibson F model that looks as good as those Flatirons do.

The question is... How good they are? I once played an F model by Epiphone and it was absolute rubbish ( dead ), compared to an Eastman. Are the new Flatiron mandolins good or are they just a rebrand of the Epiphone models?

[fatt-dad]

I'd think your A9 a fine mandolin.

f-d

[MikeEdgerton]

There have been several discussions about these Chinese Epiflats http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

One of the memorable ones is here (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=46107;hl=flatiron).

[JEStanek]

Here are threads on China AND Flatiron (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=Search&CODE=02&SID=4856704408f05bba). #This is a contrevertial subject with lots of emotion. #At the end of the day, I think the Chinese Flatirons are being reviewed as nice but not quite as good as the Eastman mandolins. #YMMV. #I've not played one. #I think at that price point (new not the used ones) its a good idea to play a bunch or work with a trustworthy dealer if you'r buying on-line.

Jamie

EDIT: D'Oh. Mike beat me to the finish line... again.

[Ken Berner]

Nothing at all wrong with a Gibson A9 and you can be sure that product in question is no match for what you already own. Just because it may have Flatiron on it, doesn't mean that it bears much resemblance to the genuine article built in Montana, U.S.A.. If you have scroll envy, there are American choices that outweigh the Pac-rim offerings!

[BlueMountain]

The Chinese Flatirons are pretty nice, but not as good as the American Flatirons of years past. A lot like an Eastman (maybe not as good) or a Kentucky. I'm basing this on one I owned that was an early one or a prototype. I'm not sure what the later ones are like.

[Riccardo]

I'd think your A9 a fine mandolin.

f-d
I love my A9, I would never part with it. I liked the Flatiron's look, and given the price, I thought it would made a good backup mandolin.

I would like to go out and play a bit and I fear my A9 would get damaged. At each gig I did - I don't do many - I got some kind of damage on my guitars - not to mention stolen gear, from strings and guitar knobs to cables, etc...

Anyway, I think I will rather start to save up for a Gibson F9, so that I'll have two good instruments, rather than one good mandolin and an half-assed one ( the chinese Flatiron). I gave a look at those old threads and the impression I got is these products just tampered with Flatiron's legacy.

[allenhopkins]

At each gig I did - I don't do many - I got some kind of damage on my guitars - not to mention stolen gear, from strings and guitar knobs to cables, etc...

Anyway, I think I will rather start to save up for a Gibson F9, so that I'll have two good instruments...I gave a look at those old threads and the impression I got is these products just tampered with Flatiron's legacy.
{1} What kinda gigs were you playing? #I've been gigging for 40+ years and the number of times I've had real damage or theft, could be counted on the fingers of one hand. #Seems to me you could use some better venues...?

[2] #Second the motion about the Flatasians. #As pointed out above, some Cafe-ers, especially owners of Montana- or Nashville-made Flatirons, got a bit incensed that G was shipping the nameplate overseas (following Epiphone and God knows how many others).

[3] #Only problem I see in your strategy, is that now you'll own two mandolins you're worried about taking to gigs! #You well might consider a Kentucky, JBovier or Eastman -- all imports that get pretty good Cafe reviews -- for a gigging mandolin, if you're going to keep playing those biker bars.*

* And now all the cycle-riding Cafe members are gonna hate me.

[fatt-dad]

Gig with your A9. I can't believe you'd do the equivalent damage in terms of cost that a second mandolin would cost. If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking to spend my money on a mandolin that compliments what I have (i.e., a bluegrass box). I'd look for an oval hole mandolin for example. Then you'd have two mandolins to take out for the gig!

f-d

[MikeOPFL]

This is my first post, and I'm probably going to get myself in trouble on this one as I've read other posts on this subject, but here goes anyway..... I just bought one of these from Janet Davis. It's the first mandolin I've owned, but it really seems to be pretty decent.

I had an email exchange with Gibson before I bought it and they told me the difference in the Flatiron and the Epiphone was that the Flatiron is solid wood (not laminated back and sides like the Epiphone), has a bone nut, and nicer hardware. The build quality is very good and I am happy with it...... although I'm already looking at the "real" Gibsons now http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[JEStanek]

MikeOPFL,
Welcome to the Café. This should in no way get you in trouble. If you're happy with your purchase enjoy your instrument. Noone is here to deliberately make you feel bad about a purchase regardless of its price, country of origin, or namesake's legacy.

The nice thing about the imported instruments is they put traditional looking and often decent sounding instruments in the hands of those just getting their feet wet in the mando world. If it's set up well and intonates up the neck, you can learn to play music on any instrument.

jamie

[delsbrother]

I have an A9 and an F9, and am looking to sell the A9 as the sound is very similar. The F9 has a handy strap holder. YMMV

[Ken Berner]

Hey Mike, You probably got a pretty good mandolin for the money. A couple of years ago I played one at MerleFest and it certainly was a better instrument than a raft of Eastmans in the tent. I recall that it cost close to $800, which seemed like a fair price.

[Teacher5th]

I'm talking to a guy about purchasing a 1973 Terada. I am unable to find any info on the Internet about the brand or the quality. He is asking $200.00. The instrument is in excellent condition. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Bill

[pickinNgrinnin]

[QUOTE]Just because it may have Flatiron on it, doesn't mean that it bears much resemblance to the genuine article built in Montana, U.S.A

Or Nashville for that matter http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[allenhopkins]

I'm talking to a guy about purchasing a 1973 Terada. #I am unable to find any info on the Internet about the brand or the quality. #He is asking $200.00. #The instrument is in excellent condition. Does anyone have any thoughts?
Elderly had a plywood Terada mandolin for sale for $40, but the pics don't load any more; here's a link (http://www.elderly.com/vintage/names/TERADA--90U-4719.htm) to what's left of the page.

There's a discussion on a Harmony Central bulletin board here. (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/archive/index.php/t-1773917.html) Mostly about acoustic guitars, but there are a bunch of links you might pursue. #Apparently Terada was a fairly well-known Japanese factory that built for a number of different nameplates, including Gretsch at one time.

#The Luna Guitars website (http://www.lunaguitars.com/faq.php) says "The Luna Trinity and Phoenix, for example, are crafted at the historic Terada Factory that has manufactured guitars for Alvarez, Gibson, Gretsch and Martin..." but I don't know the basis for this. #"Manufactured for ...Gibson...and Martin" might mean that some of the Asian subsidiary nameplates (Epiphone, Shenandoah, etc.) were built there. #I see references to "Terada-made" Gretsch instruments.

Not much about mandolins, other than the defunct Elderly page, which obviously listed a plywood "cheapo." #Might be worth calling Elderly, though how much research you want to lavish on a $200 purchase is surely up to you.

[johnl]

I believe the Terada factory is currently making some of the Epiphone Elitist guitars.
Here's a (pricey) Terada F-4 knock-off:
http://www.johnalveyturner.co.uk/page29.html

[Teacher5th]

Thank you gentlemen. I'll think I'll take a look at it.

[Dan Johnson]

I bought a Flatiron Festival from a local shop... having been seeing them first on the Gibson website (tantalizing pics) and then around in various shops... I went to the place (Parkway in Latham NY) with the intention of buying it... There was a weird cool two point Rigel for 1100, and the Flatiron for about 700... I'd been playing an old Epiphone F-Model, and was used to it I guess.. the weight of it and the general kind of soggy tone.... What I'd really have liked was a Weber or Gibson but that's going to have to wait... Anyways... I've been playing it for about 6 months... Play at a lot of jams and in a couple amplified bands... Part of me sometimes wonders if the Rigel wouldn't have been the better buy because it was a custom, Vermont built, and because it had a pickup... The only reason I hesitated was because it was missing a couple frets and it looked a little run down... What I like about the Festival is that it started out new... So I get to break it in... That said after breaking it in it really does start to hum a bit when it gets warm... It's no custom... I wouldn't buy it in a perfect world... But compare it if you will to a Yamaha guitar... you'll probably get your money's worth... Mandolin Bros. is selling them, too, which is some small comment on the quality of the instrument...

[James Sanford]

I played a Flatiron Festival F5 last Friday night. It was new right out of the box. The sound was quite good with the woody lows you want for bluegrass, highs were not as good.

The set up was ok but could have been better. With adjustment and some breakin time it will be quite good.

I currently play an Eastman 815 which I am very happy with.

The fit and finish on the Flatiron were not as good as my Eastman but that could be the difference between an $800 instrument and a $1200 instrument.

Over all I give the Flatiron high marks for it's price range. I owned an MK which was not close to the FI.

[Willie Poole]

It`s funny how people don`t think an Asian can build a good mandolin...Why not? The wood don`t know the difference, if it sounds good and plays good what difference does it make where it is made or who made it? This hype about having to play a high price mandolin just drives a lot of people crazy...Don`t jump on me now, I own four mandolins and all are made in the US and two are from Gibson...I have owned two Asian mandos and didn`t find a thing wrong with them, why did I get rid of them you ask? I gave them both away to up and coming pickers that just needed something decent to play and they were young and didn`t have money to buy an instrument....Willie

[allenhopkins]

It`s funny how people don`t think an Asian can build a good mandolin...
I think most of us know that some of the Asian mandolins are very good instruments. #There is a reason that Asian imports dominate the low and mid-price range; they have the best quality for the money -- or, alternate way of looking at it, US manufacturers can't turn out a product of equal quality at that price point. # And even at higher prices, some Eastern firms are very competitive.

What some of us wish, is that the companies who import them, wouldn't give them the names of former US nameplates, especially when those nameplates have been used until very recently on American-made instruments. #Flatiron is a very relevant recent example, but look at Epiphone, Washburn, Regal, Oscar Schmidt, Recording King, etc. etc. #On the Cafe we've already seen confusion from those who have trouble sorting out Montana-made, Nashville-made, and Chinese-made Flatirons. #It's a marketing decision by Gibson, who owns the Flatiron nameplate, and probably makes excellent economic sense, but does leave a bit of a sour taste in some mouths.

[Ken Berner]

Willie has been where I have been. My first mandolin was a Kentucky 250S, a sow's ear for sure, but all I could afford at the time and well-worth what I paid for it. Some Asian mandolins have been outstanding, but generally "you get what you pay for". My Kentucky was louder from the beginning than anything I've heard, but the tonal quality was poor. I made some improvements to make it more pleasing to my ears, but there comes a time when it becomes senseless to spend another dollar that cannot be recovered. We all have to start somewhere and I wasn't able to start at the "top" either.

[Capt. E]

A fellow resident of Austin, Bob McRee, is currently working hard on his new chinese made "Jade" mandolins. (See the thread here). This is an example of Chinese manufacture NOT being inferior in any way. He seems to be making instruments equivalent to domestic hand-mades costing $5000 and more. His prototypes are being sold for a tenth the price. The testimonials received so far are quite good and I've been thinking very seriously about buying one. My gut tells me it wouldn't be a bad decision. Then there is, of course, the whole issue of whether you should buy American or not. Is there such a thing as a patriotic purchase when it comes to mandolins or any other instrument?

[allenhopkins]

Then there is, of course, the whole issue of whether you should buy American or not. Is there such a thing as a patriotic purchase when it comes to mandolins or any other instrument?
I have bored many people with my favorite anecdote on this topic: I bought my first mini-van, a Dodge Caravan, in 1986. I listened to Chrysler's Lee Iaccocca when he implored us to "buy American." I found that the Caravan's body was made in Canada, its engine in Japan, and its tires in France (Michelins). I do believe the owner's manual was printed in the US.

It's a globalized world, and even "American" companies bring in components from abroad. The reality is that in a certain price range, if you want new rather than used, you almost can't buy a US-made instrument. When you get into higher prices, you have a wonderful selection of American-built mandolins, by smaller and larger companies and by individual builders. That's the way the marketplace is, for better or worse.

[Capt. E]

I suppose that is one reason for the good reputation of makers like Big Muddy (formerly Mid-Missouri). Very few US instrument makers of that quality in that price range. But of course, Big Muddy's mandolins appeal to a limited market. That seems to be the only way for a maker of small production, quality goods can survive in the US, you have to have a niche.

You can be of the highest quality, or the lowest price, or the fastest production, but you can't be all three at once. I'm thinking the Chinese are trying to pull off the hat trick.

[Keith Erickson]

Sometimes I feel like I'm getting dizzy about the subject of mandolins in China.

Eastman has a following that they have earned. #Nobody is knocking them. #

What happens when you bring up the following:

-Flatiron's made in China? #
-Gibson CEO and corporate marketing decisions?
-Gibson Flowerpot ownership?

Now the hornets nest has been sturred up. #Run for the hills # #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

There are certain things that I have control over and none of the above mentioned is any of my business.

However, if it wasn't for the pac-rim world, I don't believe that many of us would have invested $5k-$15k for our first mandolins.

My MK A+ is exactly the reason why I've stuck it out with the mandolin and love playing it every chance I get. #Oh and my upgrade is being made in right here in the USA.

Will the Chinese Flatiron be a success? #I don't know but I do wish all involved parties the best of success.

...only the market place will sort that question out #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[allenhopkins]

Sometimes I feel like I'm getting dizzy about the subject of mandolins in China...Now the hornets nest has been stirred up. #Run for the hills...There are certain things that I have control over and none of the above mentioned is any of my business...However, if it wasn't for the pac-rim world, I don't believe that many of us would have invested $5k-$15k for our first mandolins.
Couple points, Keith:
[1] #This is a subject that comes up frequently. #I think one of the reasons is that people get confused over where certain brands of mandolin are manufactured, and wonder about comparative quality between domestic and imported. #There is a level of disagreement over US vs. Asian instruments, but I don't think the discussion qualifies as a "hornets' nest." #Not a lot of emotion in the above postings, IMHO.

[2] #So if you don't find this to be "any of your business," that's cool. #Others feel differently. #Equally valid opinions on both sides, again IMHO.

[3] #It isn't necessary to spend $5,000 on a first mandolin, if you choose not to buy an Asian instrument. #I've never spent more than $1,500 on a mandolin; granted, many of my instruments were bought 20+ years ago, and things are surely more expensive now, but the last Gibson I bought, an "Army-Navy Custom" fancy "pancake," was less than $1,000. #American instruments such as Big Muddy can be found for prices that are even lower. #And there are a world of used instruments out there, available from reputable dealers who stand behind them, as well as through auction sites and private purchase. #True, most beginners will end up buying Asian import instruments, which have the largest share of the market, but they're not the only choice.

I have nothing against Asian instruments; I own several -- Eastman, Johnson, Gold Tone, etc. #I have other instruments made in Honduras, England, Mexico, Bolivia, Germany, elsewhere. #No xenophobia here. #But I do have a "pet peeve" about swiping retired American nameplates, to stick on Asian instruments; it seems to me a semi-disingenuous attempt to shine some "reflected glory" on otherwise undistinguished products. #If someone is having mandolins made in China, call 'em Jade, Eastman, Forbidden City, whatever -- not Flatiron. #Only relation these have to the Flatirons we learned to love 20 years ago, is the name.

[Keith Erickson]

Allen,

All great points you brought up. #I can't argue there. #Only time will tell.

I have played a couple of Flatirons (pre China) and they were both good but I guess I don't have the connection that a lot of other folks have to the Flatiron name.

The reality of today is simple. #It's going to be up to the market place to determine how successful Flatiron will be.

Please understand my Laise Faire attitude about this subject. #I for one do not believe all is lost. #I'm sure Gibson is listening and it will be up to them to make the determination to continue in China or bring the shop back to the USA.

If I may add...
...would it make a difference if the Flatiron was produced in the Czech Republic instead of China? I'm not sure. But one thing I would probably bet on is that the discussion would be more positive.

[Capt. E]

I own three mandolins (see my tag). The chinese made Epi is factory made, has a thick top (pressed?), but after being properly set up, it is a very playable beater. The Mid-mo is what it is: well made in the USA, loud, with a great tone suitable for celtic, old-time, etc. The Shiro was made in Japan in the mid-70's (my best guess), of hand made quality and will hold it's own against any Gibson A-9. A beautiful resonate woody, ringing tone. It is also the one I paid the least for. I do have my eye on a beautiful two point Altman (only 7K), but then again, I need a new car.

[ahelms1]

Okay I need some help if anyone is willing to? I have a mandolin I want to sell, the buyer is interested, but it doesn't say anywhere a brand or model number? It only says made in China. I'm wondering if there is a way to find out the brand and what its worth I paid $400.00 for it.

[pickinNgrinnin]

Certainly not a Chinese Flatiron. It's anyone's guess as to what it could be. Sorry to hear you paid $400.00 for this one.

[ahelms1]

Does anyone know a good price to sell for maybe, just so I have something to go by?

[MikeEdgerton]

You can get them for less than a hundred dollars (in some cases much less) any day on eBay.

[ahelms1]

Well I guess i got really screwed!!! Oh well live and learn I guess!!! I was 18 when I bought it which was in 1998. Nieve and stupid! :crying: Thanks for all the help!:mandosmiley:

[300win]

I played one of the new "Flatirons" this past winter. It was a pretty good sounding mandolin for the price, way better than the Epiphone hanging next to it, also played one of the new "The Loar", sound of it was similar to the Flatiron.

[Mandomac2009]

My first post to MC. I'd been looking for an inexpensive mandolin for camping and river trips where I didn't want to take along my Andersen F5. Tried the Eastmans but didn't even want to spend that. Then I saw that the $800 Flatiron Festival F (I guess they call the Chinese version the F2) was 20% off at Music123 so I just bought it. Wow, am I glad I did! What a great little instrument.

With the right setup (which I did myself out of the box) it is quite loud and well-balanced. It has the overall tone you would expect from an F5, with good projection and some woodiness to the low end. The no-name tuners keep it in tune better than the two Collings I have owned--an MF5 Deluxe and and an MT2. Granted it does not have the sweetness or complexity of sound of these instruments, or my Andersen, but hey, it cost 10 times less than the MF5! All I did was put a set of medium strings on it to replace the med-lights it came with. The quality of the woods and the finish are also very impressive. Even the work around the scroll and at the neck joint--though not perfect--was a pleasant surprise.

A couple negatives:

The bridge is cheap and barely adjustable. Will eventually trade this out, or maybe not--it is set up fine now.

The outer corners of the nut and bridge could use some sanding to help playability, although it is not essential for beginners.

I have played mando for 30 years and have played and owned many mandolins, and I must say that the Chinese Flatiron is a great way to get a decent F model sound and esthetic for an affordable price, although beginners will want to take this in to get it professionally set up.