I get so tired of people "bumping" classifieds [Archive]

Crowder

Jun-10-2008, 8:47pm

MikeEdgerton

Jun-10-2008, 8:56pm

From the classifieds posting guidelines:

Unless your product is successfully sold or traded, you should allow the ad to auto-expire at the end of 21 days (the minimum ad length) or more before resubmitting. The practice of "bumping" an ad to the top by deleting and resubmitting it is not permitted.

If indeed it's happening it will be checked out.

f5loar

Jun-10-2008, 8:58pm

I don't see a problem with a few bumps. But after a year it does get old. Say you are on vacation and you missed seeing the ads for a week. Bumping one up for faster review makes sense. If you post your ad here, then do at ebay, then do it on craigslist, then do it at BU magazine and then come back here again and it's still not sold..... it's time to lower the price.

jim_n_virginia

Jun-10-2008, 9:44pm

If you post your ad here, then do at ebay, then do it on craigslist, then do it at BU magazine and then come back here again and it's still not sold..... it's time to lower the price.
AMEN!

steve V. johnson

Jun-10-2008, 9:54pm

Apparently, like me, Crowder, you read the classifieds every day.

I also check in at CNN, The NYTimes, BBC, Washington Post, Time and more. #
Many of them repeat stories, sometimes in thinly disguised 'new' headlines.

At least there's substance behind a classified ad...

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

May you find patience, relief, or both.

All the best,

stv

mrmando

Jun-10-2008, 10:20pm

I read 'em every day too ... Cross-posting with eBay is not allowed. I see this rule broken frequently, but I'm sure Scott has better things to do than search eBay for instruments that were also posted at the Cafe.

My impression is that bumping can be allowed if the offer has changed in some substantial way. I can think of one instrument that has been offered with different cases, at different prices, on different terms (sale vs. trade), etc. Whether these changes are "substantial" is obviously a judgment call; thank goodness it is not MY judgment call.

I used to do the bump until the 21-day rule was passed. Believe me, it was much worse back then.

One's ad does get a lot of exposure just after it's listed, but I've sold things and/or gotten inquiries off ads of all ages. If your ad is "buried" a little deeper, the people who do contact you will tend to be the more motivated ones, since they had to search to find your ad.

Chris Biorkman

Jun-10-2008, 10:51pm

I kind of find this annoying as well. However, what irritates me more is when you see someone selling something used for more than the item would cost brand new. The Ellis currently in the classifieds comes to mind. Rant over.

JiminRussia

Jun-10-2008, 11:14pm

Dang! What a good idea. I didn't realize that you could even do that. Excuse me, I have to go visit my classified ad............... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

pjlama

Jun-11-2008, 12:19am

I am so sick of the tiresome practice of some sellers constantly removing and resubmitting their ads so that they'll show up on top of the list. It's a self-perpetuating problem....the more people do it, the more people think they MUST do it to get attention.

If I see Doug Bates from Lighthouse, Florida's Stanley V5 ad bumped again I think I'll scream.

Am I alone here?
I'm with you. If I see that same Stanley bumped again I'm gonna scream. What's worse is he was trying to trade me straight across for my Ellis when I was selling that over a month ago. THe Stanley has been listed for as much as 8k to as little as $4,999. I was asking over 12k. Sorry if I seem mean spirited about this but the bumping is getting old. Chris, sometimes listing stuff a little high happens as nearly everyone dickers down the price so a little padding is the norm unless of course it says; firm obo, which I've also witnessed.

Chris Biorkman

Jun-11-2008, 12:44am

I understand wanting to get as much as you can when selling, but something about listing used for more than new costs just rubs me the wrong way. I understand padding the price a bit, but I find it a bit insulting when taken overboard.

man dough nollij

Jun-11-2008, 12:48am

Isn't that somewhat to be expected with builders that have become very prestigious, with long waiting lists? MAS being what it is, I think it might be tempting to try to make a profit after enduring the long build time. I'm sure there are folks who would pay more for a Gilchrist, Ellis, Dudenbostel, etc. now, rather than get it cheaper in three years. I don't know if I'll ever have the bucks for this to be a personal topic, but you never know... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

troika

Jun-11-2008, 1:12am

I agree with the "no bump" rule, even if it's unwritten. It's like cutting to the front of a line. It's obnoxious.

mandopluker

Jun-11-2008, 7:24am

Disclaimer: No financial interest....

I kind of find this annoying as well. However, what irritates me more is when you see someone selling something used for more than the item would cost brand new. The Ellis currently in the classifieds comes to mind. Rant over.

I may be missing something but don't see the Ellis being overpriced -especially with a Paganoni case. Does anyone know if this is one of the Ellis "special" mandolins with the upgrades in binding, etc? I see the headstock overlay is of the upgrade fashion. Anyway, just my $0.02 worth as a fellow Cafe freak http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I am in agreement with everyone on the bumping -FWIW of course. That is more $0.05 worth http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

MikeEdgerton

Jun-11-2008, 7:27am

The no bump rule is written. It is a rule. As for posting an ad here and on eBay when we find them they are removed. Feel free to let any of the moderators know if you see an item listed on eBay and here and please include the eBay link or item number. The classifieds are a wonderful resource for buyers and sellers here and Scott created the guidelines for a reason.

Joel Spaulding

Jun-11-2008, 7:34am

The "bumping" rule actually is written. But selling something "used" for a higher price than "new".... Probably guys like Steve Gilchrist should be the ones upset when their work sells for a higher price on the secondary market than what they just sold an instrument for new. But, that's really simple econ 101, supply and demand.
Doubtful one will find a less "desireable" used instrument ("mass" produced) selling for more than it would new. If I see a used Eastman in the classifieds at the same price as a new one, I just smile knowing that the seller will likely have to relist at 300-500 lower in a few weeks. No knock on Eastmans - There are several models that really intrigue me - just an example.

BlueMountain

Jun-11-2008, 8:24am

Another odd thing is people listing used mandolins as new because they are in mint condition. Oh well. We can work our way around that.

It occurs to me that the tail end of the used list might be the place to look for mandolins with owners who are desperate to make a deal, whereas the ones at the top of the list might be less interested in accepting a lower offer. A lot of us never look that far down on the list, but there can be some very nice mandolins down there that just didn't catch the attention of the right people on the couple days they were at the top of the list.

mandopluker

Jun-11-2008, 8:37am

BlueMountain,

I actually enjoy going to the end of the list and working back for some strange / weird reason. I have not in particular found folks ready and willing to make much of any, if at all any better deal just because the item has been up for sale a while --YMMV of course.

danb

Jun-11-2008, 8:49am

My experience has been that stuff is just as likely to sell when it's showing up early or late in the list.

I could be evil and randomize the listings to take away the benefit of a bump http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

MikeEdgerton

Jun-11-2008, 8:55am

Now that would be funny.

Jim Broyles

Jun-11-2008, 8:58am

I noticed that when I got the notice that my ad would expire unless I renewed it, once I did renew it, it stayed in the same position. I figured it would jump to the top with a renewal. I think I'd rather just let it expire and list it again. Dan,I'd say go for it if you can do it and keep the new feature of new listings being the default opening for the classifieds.

mandopluker

Jun-11-2008, 8:59am

Dan,

...now that is something I would think of (but not tell anyone) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ....I love it! Certainly levels the playing field doesn't it.

jimbob

Jun-11-2008, 9:00am

I really like the classified section here and have used it several times. I think folks should honer the guidelines, especially since it is a free service. Folks will price their stuff where they think they need to be. Folks who trade a lot will most likely get close to market values and folks with some attachment will probably price their stuff a little high. On the Stanley....it seems like the price has been adjusted down as it was bumped, but I couldn't swear to it. #I know if I am watching a specific item, I keep track no matter haow far it gets pushed back. The bottom line is, that if an item is priced fairly, it probably won't last long here.

Carleton Page

Jun-11-2008, 9:09am

Another odd thing is people listing used mandolins as new because they are in mint condition.
I agree with this. I hope this is not too off topic. #If you are not a dealer it is not new. There isn't really any #difference except you are most likely not going to back it up as well as a good dealer will and in most cases the warranty card will be void.(Wow run on sentence :.) #
# # I also find the bumping to be annoying and it seems to be flaring up recently. #I have not been a cafe member very long so I don't have a very good frame of reference, but I didnt notice it untill a couple months ago. #If I am not mistaken posters can modify their original ads to change the price or whatever else or to #mark it as sold or on hold. #I am also an every day classified checker!

Jim Broyles

Jun-11-2008, 9:12am

I don't get marking an item sold. Delete the ad if you sold the thing.

fatt-dad

Jun-11-2008, 9:59am

You price them right and remain patient and they will sell no matter what page they're on. If you do the bump you'll seem desprit (sp) and more likely to be harrassed about lowering your price. These ads are looked at by ALOT of folks and most of the MAS-sufferers notice stuff like that.

f-d

mandopete

Jun-11-2008, 9:59am

I could be evil and randomize the listings to take away the benefit of a bump
I think that's a good idea, go for it!

jhbaylor

Jun-11-2008, 10:22am

What tends to sell an instrument more than "bumping" is a well written ad with a fair price, some useful information about the mandolin and some photos. #The instrument ad referred to by the original poster of this thread is a prime example of the opposite of this. #Unless you have something one of a kind, which in this case, there are three of these instruments for sale right now on the classifieds. #Take the 5 minutes and write a decent ad, and put up a picture...

Mandolin for sale. #$1,500 firm. #Serious inquiries only. #Will send photos upon background check.

Jonathan Peck

Jun-11-2008, 10:35am

Look, those Stanley's sold new when Chris was starting out. They were around 3.5k then and received some good press. Chris raised his prices -prematurely I think - and everyone thought that they would jump on the bandwagon and sell their 3.5k mandolins at Chris's current price. No-one is biting. I tried to sell mine for what I paid and personally took a bath on it, but I lowered the price to what knowledgeable folks are willing to pay and made a nice trade. In the end I traded something I didn't play for something I do play...alot, so I guess it worked out but I did lose money on it. Unfortunately, the current Stanley sellers aren't as motivated to sell as I was and they keep popping up to the top of the list.

Scott Tichenor

Jun-11-2008, 10:46am

More than 50% of all ad replies come from items not on the front page. The theory that items only sell when they're in the first few listed is little more than wishful thinking.

Repeatedly posting the same instrument over and over is a good way to guarantee you're going to have a hard time selling. Some become tainted goods after awhile from being pushed too hard. We all know those ads and wonder why no one is buying.

Items posted as sold and left there is a wise practice I not only allow, but recommend. Until you receive the funds and the check clears and a grace period is over, it's a good idea to keep that information there for the good of the seller and buyer. Plus, it is of interest to some people, and sales do fall through which allows the seller to edit/update the ad.

Yes, some items appear here and there and on eBay once in awhile in violation of the posting guidelines (which few every read, apparent from some of the comments here). I don't spend my entire day trying to monitor every single one. Does it harm anything? Not necessarily. But it does get enforced.

As with this forum, the classifieds are open to the general public, so a bit of patience and tolerance as you browse ads goes a long way. If you have concerns about users, I should be contacted regarding your concern. A few people take these matters into their own hands, and let me say up front that is not advised. Harassing a seller because you don't like the way they conduct themselves will get you in hot water with me pronto. No need to bother the moderators regarding the classifieds although I'm sure some of them don't mind.

My contact information regarding classifieds is found here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/email.html).

Links

Jun-11-2008, 11:06am

I really like the system that Scott has in place although I too am annoyed by the same ads popping up over and over - almost always at the same price. We all have a mutual "friend" (shall remain nameless) who disclosed that he was liquidating his instruments (mostly banjos - some mandolins) last year and in the last year has run at least a dozen ads for the same instruments. His "liquidation" has even resulted in more instruments for sale. Honesty and straight-forwardness go a long way in my book if you are trying to sell something!

surfandstrum

Jun-11-2008, 11:17am

Amen to all that was said, but when he takes it further and tries to low-ball the prices on an instrument you have posted so they can flip it for a profit is annoying...Then, add on sarcastic and insulting comments via e-mail to the mix, it makes trying to sell an instrument a pain...Thus, I had to add a tag-line that said flippers don't inquire...

Ken Olmstead

Jun-11-2008, 11:17am

I don't get marking an item sold. Delete the ad if you sold the thing.
I agree. "Sale Pending" makes sense but "Sold" implies done deal. I think Scott is right also. Bumping the add makes me oblivious to it in a very short time. If you let the add run its course, serious buyers will look through each and every page. Then after it expires, it almost looks new after 3-4 weeks.

Scott Tichenor

Jun-11-2008, 11:46am

If you don't like to hear from someone, it's a good idea to simply block email from them. Almost every conceivable program is capable of this. For example, in gmail:

Click on "Settings" link in upper right-hand corner of gmail
Click on "Filters"
At botton of page click "Create a new filter"
In the "From" field, add their email address, example: someone@theirmail.com
Then click "Next Step"
Check the box "Delete it" and then "Create Filter"

I'm perfectly aware of who we're talking about here, but I'm yet to see a true forwarded example where the abuse has supposedly occurred. Poor judgment or manners vs. abusive are two different matters.

Frank Russell

Jun-11-2008, 11:57am

I agree about the "Sold" marking. It takes no longer to delete your defunct ad than it does to write SOLD on the ad copy of the existing ad. It's just a waste of space. Bumping doesn't bother me as much, people are just trying to get what they need. Sooner or later they figure it out. I've been in a position where I had to "bump" or re-list an ad because situations changed, and I needed to sell faster, or my email didn't let responses come through, or I needed to add so much information that it was basically a new ad. Never just bumped an ad with the same terms and price though. Frank.

imstrider

Jun-11-2008, 12:37pm

I read the classifieds every day, mostly because it is fun to see all of the different instruments out there (and because I'm addicted at this point). Similar to watching a rerun, I'm disappointed when I re-read a "bumped" posting. But, I've also used the classifieds three times to buy/sell instruments. So the classifieds play two distinct roles for me: as entertainment, and as a marketplace.

When I was in the buying mode, it would have been valuable to be able to sort by price and date listed. Or even, just pull up all of the instruments in the $2k to $4k range. I don't build websites or databases, so maybe this is too much work to set this up, but would it be possible to create a "sortable" spreadsheet that listed the instrument make, the price, the date listed, even a self-assessment of quality (excellent, mint, new, good whatever)?

Who knows, this might even decrease the tendency to "bump" because sellers would know that buyers could search/sort more specifically.

mandopete

Jun-11-2008, 2:36pm

I only read the classifieds for articles, I never look at the pictures!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

fredfrank

Jun-11-2008, 5:37pm

I have to agree with Scott with regard to the tainted goods analogy. The more an ad is bumped up, the less chance it seems to have at selling. At least at the price you're asking.

I thought I saw Mandopete looking at a couple of pictures in the classifieds the other day. Looked like his eyes were kinda glazed over.

atetone

Jun-12-2008, 12:03am

I love the classifieds! I cruise it way too much.
Yes the bumping is a bit crass in my view but it hasn't driven me over edge or anything.
I have sold a few mandos on the classifieds and my experience has been that I get a whole bunch of inquiries right off the bat and then it dies off. Tire kickers I guess.
Then, once it hits the back pages for a while it seems like the real buyers start calling and then it sells at or near the original price.
That has been my experience.

man dough nollij

Jun-12-2008, 1:31am

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't get the irritation. When I look at the classifieds (every day), I can see which ads I have already clicked on (they change colors), so I don't have to consider ones I've already viewed. If I see an ad that says "Same old bowl-front, flat back fixer-upper $5000 OBO", I'll just pass. I actually kind of the like the ones that read "'05 Jim McGillicuddy F5 SOLD", because it gives me a place to see a picture of one of those, and get an idea of what they're going for. When shopping for a house, wouldn't it be nice to browse through all the ones that have already sold, with final sale price? That'd be a lot more informative than seeing a nice selection of inventory with inflated asking prices. Just my $0.03NZ.

BlueMountain

Jun-12-2008, 7:58am

1. I bought a mandolin through the classifieds yesterday, a few hours after it was posted. It was what I was looking for and at a fair price. I love the classifieds, and I've sold things through them, and traded, too.

2. I don't mind seeing a SOLD sign on an item for a day or two. Some mandolins draw dozens of e-mails, and this lets people know the sale is over. But then it should come down.

3. Something that might be cool is a "Classified Sales Archives" page that lists the ads of mandolins that have SOLD, along with what they sold for. This would be very useful to us because we could search under a brand name and find out what has sold over the years and for how much. It would help us know what is going up in value, what is going down in demand or availability, what the mandolin we are considering sold for last time it sold, etc. It would be nice if that were also done with eBay ads, but that would probably cause problems. (Though I think some of us here must somehow be archiving eBay mandolin sales, or maybe printing them out.)

pjlama

Jun-12-2008, 8:53am

"'05 Jim McGillicuddy F5 SOLD",
You mean I missed out on a McGiilicuddy F5?!?!? What the? I've been looking for one for years. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

JEStanek

Jun-12-2008, 9:06am

PJ, There were 3 McGiilicuddy instruments 2 F5s and a 2 point. I had the Dawg send me the best one. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I like the classifieds, I've used them to sell/trade instruments. We went through a bumping discussion about a year ago. I figure if my mando doesn't move in 21 days I have it priced unreasonably for the market, or no ones looking for mine now and I'll wait a bit. What's that Stephen Foster song.... "Hard Times"?

Jamie

pjlama

Jun-12-2008, 9:41am

Ah the McGilicudy... Agreed, if it doesn't move in twenty one keep it or lower the price. The one that spawned this thread has been blatant and I've been surprised none of you higher up types have stepped in to squash the abuse.

Wheel Man

Jun-12-2008, 10:38am

I tend to read the classifided every day, or at least every other day, and I'm not into bumping either. #I found a great buy on my Flatiron by looking back to the last few pages of the classifieds, I think a lot of folks just scan the first page or two. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Keith Erickson

Jun-12-2008, 10:45am

....heck my two cents....

I like reading the classifieds each day. I'm not too bothered by what is advertized or how it appears. I have yet to sell anything on the Mandolin Café but if and when that day arrives, I'll be sure to make myself aquainted with the guidelines real quick.

...and if I have any questions, I wouldn't hesitate to reach out to one of our moderators for assistance http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

mrmando

Jun-12-2008, 11:42am

The one that spawned this thread has been blatant and I've been surprised none of you higher up types have stepped in to squash the abuse.
Well, at least it hasn't been bumped since this thread started!

blawson

Jun-12-2008, 12:39pm

When shopping for a house, wouldn't it be nice to browse through all the ones that have already sold, with final sale price?
Check out zillow.com -- apologies in advance for the off-topic follow-up.

How about a zillow for mando... interfacing with Google map. #Type in a zip code, click on the mando icon, get a display showing builder, year, most recent sale price.

Or not.

Twango

Jun-13-2008, 11:21am

Scott Tichenor

Jun-13-2008, 11:29am

I understand all the classified rules except for the rule :
"Trades in either direction involving non-mandolin family products are not allowed. This includes guitars, violins, banjos, and other non-mandolin family instruments or other musical and non-musical products".

Many of us here are multi-instrumentalists. Really, if someone wants to offer me a Rickenbacker 12-string for my Weber, why does the Cafe care? It does have doubled strings after all ;-) I can fully understand not allowing someone with a 12-string running an ad looking for a mandolin.
People will go to great length to abuse a system. I've tested allowing trades of non-mandolin items and it's usually a day or two before I begin to receive complaints that a guitar, fiddle or something else has been offered for trade for a mandolin, but when the reply is made, they tell the inquiring party they don't want to trade. They only want to sell and this is the way they get around the policy. That's not fair to the people that use the classifieds. Some of those people doing that are posting away here as we speak http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

The response I'll get for pointing this out is predictable, and I've dealt with it before. "Just kick those people off" is that response. Well, isn't that easy. Once that response is made, it's outside of the Cafe and a private conversation between two parties, and that's none of my business, nor is it business I want to engage in for the masses--for free.

And the even more predictable response if you allow trades in one direction and not the other: "that doesn't make sense! You can't do that."

I've said this many times and will say it again: all I wish to do is run a mandolin web site. I think it's great people play other instruments. Fine, but please deal them elsewhere.