What is this tiny eight string instrument?

[GuitarThumper]

Hello from a new forum member, guitar Neanderthal that I am.

Soooooooooo. Yesterday I am hanging around the local big box music store trying hard to avoid chores and office work. On a whim I pick up this lovely little F5 knock off and (looking at it upside down and backwards) I actually start playing some cohenrent chords my first time out of the mando gate. I was charmed and am actually thinking about starting down another slippery instrument slope.

First step, find a good discussion board. Second step, ask some intellegent questions. It's that second step that has me fouled up because I don't know where to start.

In no particular order: How difficult will it be for a semi compentent guitar thumper to play a mandolin? How much of my imperfect guitar knowledge translates to this instrument? What's the track record for middle aged six stringers making the plunge to four courses? How much harder are melody lines and runs than chords? Where and how do I learn (I am a self taught guitarist with a few remedial lessons)? How difficult is a celtic bouzouki (one of the mid-size guys, not a big 26" scale honker)? How different from a regular mandolin?

And finally, the questions my wife dreads, what would everyone recommend for a starter instrument? Where to find such a thing? What features should I look for? Is a laminate wood instument okay? What should I pay for something that is not a piece of junk? What brands?

If I have violated any rules here I apologize. I am a Guitar Neaderthal, after all. Thanks.

[jk245]

Welcome to the club!

To pick the proper instrument, learn the fundamentals, and learn the lingo, just look back in time at the thousands of postings by "newbies" in the 'general mandolin discussion'.

Just as any musical instrument, the more you play the better you get. If you have some musical experience then you will easily be able to make the transition to the mando from the guitar.

[JEStanek]

Stanley,

First, Welcome to the Mandolin Café! We're glad you're here. Second, understanding a fingerboard and how the notes lie on it will be an advantage to a new mando player coming form guitar rather than, clarinet, for example. The mandolin is tuned in fifths, G, D, A, E above middle C from low string to high respectively, just like a violin. There's plenty of theory out there. In fact we have a Theory Section devoted to it. (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=SF;f=25)

For a starter instrument, I would recommend a all solid wood or at least a solid topped mandolin. I would recommend the A style (pear shaped) rather than the F style (with all the points and curlicues. For about $250 you could get something like the Kentucky KM150S from one of our board sponsors and have it come to you well set up. You could get a Kentucky KM140S for about $150 (solid top only). If you are really on a tight budget you could consider the Rouge or Johnson all laminate mandolins (about $50-75) but be sure they come set up and you can return it if it won't stay in tune or the fingerboard isn't done right. Take a look at the Kentucky, and Johnson brands on the sponsor websites, figure out a budget then call them up and talk to them. Buy form the place you get the best feeling from.

Zouk's and Octave Mandolins (OM) are tuned similarly (often- but not always) and have longer stretches so the fingerings you would use on a mandolin may not always translate on a zouk or OM. Both are fun as well and have different voices than their smaller scaled family members.

If you have a nice vintage shop around you could look for an old Strad-o-lin but these are harder to find and may or may not need work to get you going.

Here is our Mandolin Café FAQ (http://www.mandolincafe.com/archives/faq.html) a good place to start reading.

The search function on our engine is a bit old and wonky but there are lots of older threads we can direct you to once you have a better idea where you want to go. It's best to put in fewer words with AND between them.

Whew! That's a lot to read already... Have fun.

Jamie

[sbarnes]

addiction worse than drugs
be warned

[frankenstein]

GT, i think guitar and mando are poles apart but that's good. 4 fingers , 4 courses makes more sense than guitar. get some great info here on the cafe on just about any aspect of mando playing. start out with open chords like G D & C, not too hard to master and you will be hooked for sure. the cafe classifieds should have the right mando for you at some time just don't rush into it , take your time and learn as much as you can about mandos , brands, builders, and so on.. welcome to mando madness..

[JeffD]

Welcome welcome. There are many hear who haver made just the transition you are considering. But I have a suggestion - get your wife a cheapy ukulele. Let here feel the joy of home made music. Perhaps if she gets addicted, she will be more understanding of your mando-decisions.

[allenhopkins]

Glad to hear you're interested in the mandolin. #You already have received good advice above. #However, I must direct your attention to this current thread, (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=53478) which gives many reasons why you might not want to take up mandolin.

But seriously, folks:
[1] #In some ways mandolin "makes more sense" than guitar, because the strings are all in the same relationship to each other -- that is, a 5th apart. #Guitar is tuned in a combination of 4ths and one 3rd. #Because of the equidistant tuning, the chord shapes you learn can be moved all over the instrument, producing the same relative string pitches everywhere.
[2} #In my experience, mandolin is more linear than guitar; the greater separation in the tuning means that you stay on one string longer before moving to the next. #While mandolin is surely an effective chordal instrument, you may find your emphasis turning more to playing melody than strictly chording. #On guitar I think "chords," on mandolin I think "melody," albeit with lots and lots of exceptions.
[3] #Regarding the larger mandolins (mandola, octave mandolin, bouzouki, mandocello), there's a very active forum on this board devoted to them, well worth checking out. #In some ways these instruments feel more friendly to guitarists, because of their size, the similarity in neck dimensions and fret spacing, and the tonal range in which they play. #For no real reason, though (other than perhaps initial investment), I'd recommend starting on mandolin and moving to one of the bigger instruments once you're comfortable on the smaller.
[4] #You will find Cafe members an opinionated crew, partisans of different brands and styles of instrument, never reticent about disagreeing with differing viewpoints. #I have been amazed over two years how much I've learned here. #Even if I didn't play mandolin, I'd find much of the discussion interesting; as it is, I find it fascinating. #And there's also an "in-crowd" attraction about playing what is still a minority instrument in a world of guitarists. #Think you'll find it a lot of fun.

[GuitarThumper]

Many, many thanks for these thoughtful and welcoming replies. I ask about the irish bouzouki because a good deal of what I play is celtic. The ones I have heard are terrific backing instruments and I must admit it doeS look a bit more comfortable than the little bitty neck!

Good advice all of this and I will certainly use the resources here before jumping in.

Re: the uke suggestion, believe it or not she wails on the harmonica--oh, and classical piano too.

The quality of this forum is quite clear from the replies in this thread. Thanks again.

[Dave Greenspoon]

I picked up mando five years ago, having hacked on the viola as a kid. #My advice is to get the best instrument you can possibly afford to get right now at whatever your max budget is. #It's a lot easier learning how to play on a quality instrument. #That generally means all-wood as already noted. Here are some other "comfort" things to look for:

radiused fretboard
larger-size frets
ease of use of the tailpiece cover/string changes

Cruise the classifieds, click on the storefront sponsors, look at stuff and prices for new and used, and then go to the forums to get a sense of particular instruments. #If a year from now you're loving the mando, you'll likely have updgraded to something else, and you'll have a great backup instrument to take to festivals, or you'll list it and pass it along to someone else.

Enjoy!

[Joel Spaulding]

Thumper, welcome to the cafe! I can add little of value to what has already been written - but echo the solid wood instrument suggestion and highly recommend a professional setup from a mandolin luthier or technician. While our 8 stringers share qualities with many other stringed instruments they are NOT guitars, nor violins.

Also, you are no longer a Neanderthal (if you ever really were). By joining this forum your evolution has already commenced:

Evolution (http://www.mandolincafe.com/archives/spoof.html)

The fossil record is fairly spotty concerning 6 strings - but my research suggests they fall between b*nj*s and Mandolins.

Good luck and again, welcome!

Peace,

Joel

One year and a few weeks on the Cafe - soon likely to be at the chagrin of my wife http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[JamesPV]

GT: Welcome. I made the same transition at about 42 after playing guitar for almost 30 years, and for a long time now have played mandolin much more than guitar.

The smaller neck of the mandolin seems awkward for a short while, but soon you get used to it and its advantages. It's very simple to reach an octave on two adjacent strings, for example. And the consistent relationship of the strings makes both fingering and understanding theory easier than on guitar. Before long the guitar feels awkwardly too big.

Also the pitch range of the mando (same as a violin) makes it a more dynamic lead instrument in many ways. The first string(s) of the mando are the same pitch as the 12th fret of the high E string on guitar, the 2nd's on mando are the same as the A on the first string 5th fret on guitar, and the lowest (G) strings on a mando are the equivalent of the open third string on a guitar, so your lead lines are the equivalent of playing fairly high up on the guitar neck and the tone is punchier. When you switch back to guitar, lower position lines sound more mellow, kind of like the difference between violin and cello voicing.

One caution: The notes on mandolin are the same as on a violin, so at some point you may think, "how much harder could that be?" The answer is: a lot. I found the lack of frets not as much trouble as I expected, but using the bow is like playing an entire second instrument at the same time. Be careful if you encounter that temptation. But the mando will give plenty of challenge, and enjoyment, for a good while.

[Matt Hutchinson]

In no particular order: How difficult will it be for a semi compentent guitar thumper to play a mandolin? How much of my imperfect guitar knowledge translates to this instrument? What's the track record for middle aged six stringers making the plunge to four courses?
I'm not quite middle aged (36) but was pretty much in the same boat as you 18 months ago. I've played guitar for years and basically spent the first month trying to play the mandolin like a guitar. Once I got my head around the differences and started actually trying to play the mandolin as a mandolin things started moving and I haven't looked back (or played guitar more than half a dozen times since).

Mandolin is a BLAST and, once you understand the tuning a little, far more workable and flexible than guitar (IMHO). I never use a capo on mandolin as I find I just don't need to.

Finally, and maybe most importantly for a beginner, you've found the right place to ask your questions. Not knowing any other mando players when I started I came to the Cafe , read for a while then started asking the questions I had that I couldn't find answers to. The people here are friendly, knowledgeable and a daily inspiration to me.

Welcome and enjoy!!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Greg H.]

Stanley,

I don't know what sort of budget you might have (or how flexible your wife might be) but if you're looking to play celtic a Big Muddy (formerly Mid Missouri) would be an excellent choice at around $500. It's a flat top, all solid wood, and made in the US. It won't have the sort of projection an arched top f-hole mandolin would, but they're warmer with more sustain and have often been found a better choice for celtic.

[Keith Erickson]

GT,

Welcome aboard!!!

I don't know if I could have provided any words of wisdom. #What has been said above speaks more eloquently than any original thought that I had.

With that being said...

One thing I must warn you: #Be prepared to watch your guitars collect dust.

For the last 4½ years , my 2 guitars have been collecting dust but I won't ever get rid of them #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Elliot Luber]

You've been bitten by the bug! You are doomed to years and years of happy mandolin playing. You are powerless to stop it. Do not resist. Put all you assets in your wife's name immediately. She may spend a lot, but you'll spend your retirement money on collecting mandolins.

[Jim MacDaniel]

The good news: many mandolin players here in the forums started out playing guitar, so you are starting down a road that has been travelled successfully many times over.

The bad news: as already suggested by others above, this little instrument is highly addicting, and may take over your life if not used in moderation.



EDIT - After rereading your second post, I deleted my questions as you answered most of them. Instead, if you opt for a mid-sized longer scaled instrument, I might suggest an OM as Jamie does below. In addition to the TC option, board sponsor Gypsy's Music (http://www.gypsysmusic.com/) offers a very resonably priced luthier-made OM (with a 20" scale) that has been very well reviewed in the CBOM section of this forum (link to Gypsy's-specific threads in the CBOM section (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=Search&CODE=02&SID=484ebe134d06e0c2)). (BTW, Gypsy's mandolins come standard with a wider neck, 1-1/4" at the nut, in case that eases your transition to a shorter scaled instrument.)

[JEStanek]

I'll add a recomendation for the Trinity College Zouk or Octave Mandolin. A little bit of digging in the Citterns, Bouzoukis (Zouks), Octaves, Dolas and Mandocellos section (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=SF;f=16)will show that these are excellent starter instruments for the larger mando family members. I have a Trinity College OM and can vouce for it being a nice one to learn on for ~$500 (even better if you can get one used!).

Jamie

[Capt. E]

I have a Mid-Missouri mandolin (company now called Big Muddy Mandolins) and I don't think you could do better for a first instrument, especially since you play Celtic. They are made by hand out of solid woods here in the USA. One of the best, if not THE best value out there. I found my mint condition used M-O model for $325 with the case and a nice strap. A new instrument with case and strap will probably be $100 more. check out their web-site www.bigmuddymandolin.com for the different models they make.

[Capt. E]

Actually this old Mid-Missouri site has the best info for what is now Big Muddy

http://franklinguitarcompany.com/

[GuitarThumper]

I am just overwhelmed with all of these kind replies. Many thanks to all of you. I really am most interested in mandolins for the celtic possibilites, but I don't want to pre-judge anything.

I am absolutely intrigued with everything that has been written here and you may all rest assured that I will honor the time you have spent on me by checking out every suggestion.

Thanks again.

[JeffD]

One caution: #The notes on mandolin are the same as on a violin, so at some point you may think, "how much harder could that be?" #The answer is: #a lot.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

That is so true an experience as to make me think I wrote it.

[Jim MacDaniel]

I've heard/read violinists/fiddlers say the same thing...link (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=25;t=49089;hl=violinists)